Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 24,165
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By the way, Toronto may regroup for the 2012 games. However, what the Americans were hoping for was just this Beijing win. Why? Right now, 2010's front runner is Vancouver/Whistler. If they get it for 2010, it would make a North American bid less likely, which wouldn't be good for the Americans. However, more importantly, it would make a Toronto 2012 bid damn near impossible, especially if they elect Canadian Dick Pound to the head of the IOC, for both these reasons. Ie. Canadian city wins in 2010 and Canadian becomes president --> Toronto is a lost cause for 2012, which of course would be good for the Americans.
However, if we were to look at technical merits mainly, Toronto 2012 would be the one to beat - tough competition for places like NY or DC, etc.
By the way, it seems like many here are easily manipulated by the media. Tibet is a difficult situation, but the people of Xinjiang are probably treated worse than the Tibetans. The Xinjiang people just don't get media coverage, probably the plastic people in Hollywood don't like their Muslim religion as much as they like the Tibetans' Buddhism.
However, if we were to look at technical merits mainly, Toronto 2012 would be the one to beat - tough competition for places like NY or DC, etc.
By the way, it seems like many here are easily manipulated by the media. Tibet is a difficult situation, but the people of Xinjiang are probably treated worse than the Tibetans. The Xinjiang people just don't get media coverage, probably the plastic people in Hollywood don't like their Muslim religion as much as they like the Tibetans' Buddhism.
Oh yeah, they did take over Tibet. F*ck them the bastards of a government. :|
Free Tibet and I'd back them.
<<The IOC must be corrupted
Pay offs, hookers, new vehicles, hmm what else did those members get on their visit to china?>>
The funny thing is, it's probably true. I have little regard for the IOC at the moment.
Free Tibet and I'd back them.
<<The IOC must be corrupted
Pay offs, hookers, new vehicles, hmm what else did those members get on their visit to china?
>>The funny thing is, it's probably true. I have little regard for the IOC at the moment.
Why does this smell of the 1936 Olympics when Germany held the Olympics?
Hmmm, I didn't think about that...
I hope it won't be like that...
Hmmm, I didn't think about that...
I hope it won't be like that...
<< The IOC would be out of their minds to choose DC for an Olympics. We do not have the infrastructure to support the people that live and work here let alone hosting an Olympics.
>>
that's true...it's a shame, since we have nice stadiums, tourist attractions, etc...but I dont think we could handle all of those people at once.
<< It sure worked on Germany in 1936. They stopped their human rights abuses almost immediately thereafter. >>
Ah, yes indeed. No doubt China will experience a huge upswing in human rights shortly after they are done clearing their prisons. They've even stepped up the rate of executions so they can get started that much sooner :disgust:
<< Olympics in DC would be a nightmare.... can you imagine the traffic! wowzers! >>
yeah, they'd pretty much have to shutdown all government functions...
hmmm, not a bad idea
(i'm sure the techies at the whitehouse would get some time off too-play some darts)
Linflas
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2001
- 15,395
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<< yeah, they'd pretty much have to shutdown all government functions... >>
All they need to do is watch some video of the news casts here when we get .5 inch of snow and they will toss the bid in the circular bin once they get off the floor and compose themselves from the laughter.
<< ...The IOC must be corrupted. Pay offs, hookers, new vehicles, hmm what else did those members get on their visit to china? >>
Free tickets to Salt Lake City.
<< Free tickets to Salt Lake City >>
Yes I found it very surprising that the IOC was blamed for that, but Salt Lake City was not. Of course they'll take the money/perks if it is offered to them. I wonder if it will be possible to tour the sweat shops and see the Olympics in one trip
I hate to feel extorted, but I agree with the IOC.
Not that I like China's human rights record. But for quite some time the Chinese have felt that the world was against them. That there were viable threats from the outside, beating down on them. That any international decision would immediately go against them, regardless of position (the hang-over from Tianemen).
This will go along way to lifting that persecution complex, and make the chinese realize that the true threats to them are from the inside (ie, communism), and not outside.
Plus, about 30,000 reporters will flock to Beijing in 2008, and the scrutiny they will put the Chinese government under, as well as the games, should be most interesting.
The Chinese government may come to realize an old American axiom: Be careful what you wish for... you might just get it!
<< Plus, about 30,000 reporters will flock to Beijing in 2008, and the scrutiny they will put the Chinese government under, as well as the games, should be most interesting. >>
But Kosugi, don't you think the enourmous pressure to get rid of 'dissenters' will actually increase the numbers of political prisoners, and frequency of torture and execution? Certainly Beijing will be a sparkling and flawless jewel during the actual event, but at what price?
Yo-ma-ma,
Interesting. I guess it is possible, but any actions like that will leak out, and you probably would see nations boycotting.
China is still backwards, and probably doesn't realize what it is getting itself into. At no time in its history, even prior and during the Tianamen crisis, will they have so many foreign journalists looking not only at the Olympics, but also at the country itself.
It will be a rare chance to put China under a microscope, especially when the world is wondering if it can truly achieve "superpower" status.
Like I said, they may have gotten something that they didn't bargain for.
You may be right, yo-ma, but I hope not. Jiang Zemin is actually a moderate, and very pro-US and pro-West. Sometimes it doesn't seem that way, but he is actually effectively balancing the Nationalist militants in the government, with the pragmatic pro-west/pro-business people who are also in the government.
Believe me, he is infinitely more compassionate than Li Peng, the architect of Tianamen massacre. And Li would come to power (likely) if Jiang fails.
The olympics will strength Jiang, and probably strengthen reforms. China wants to be a western-like nation with an Asian flair. Much like Taiwan and South Korea.
They are also a paper tiger. Even Bill Gertz is coming around. Their military forces are in sad shape after 25 years of neglect. I know it doesn't seem that way, since they are on a spending spree, but their overall forces are obsolete and in need of dire repair. Repair that is not coming. Their only choice is to buy new stuff (mostly Russian hardware), but they don't have the capital for it. So they invest in a few high profile items like the SU-27, and some subs. Still, the few systems they can afford are not being used because they can't afford to train pilots/crews.
China needs the Olympics to "look" like a world superpower, because they are 30 years from being one. If ever.
Won't Jiang be stepping down next year or something? I hope the next regime will even be better than this current one.
<<<<<<I think China won as a giant "Fck U" to America. A lot of people/countries have a real jealousy and resentment of America and likely many voters thought that giving the Olympics to China would really "get the goat" of the Americans>>>>>>
Nope....the IOC felt guilty for what happened in 1993 when Syndey got the 2000 Olympics:
"After the voting in 1993, when Beijing lost to Sydney by two votes, it was disclosed that the night before the vote, the president of the Australian Olympic Committee had offered $35,000 in aid to IOC delegates from Kenya and Uganda, contingent on a Sydney victory.
The IOC has a recent history of guilt-motivated payback in bid-city elections. Athens lost to Atlanta for the 1996 Games, then won for 2004. Salt Lake City lost to Nagano for the 1998 Winter Games, then won for 2002. Rome lost to Athens for the 2004 Summer Games, then Turin, Italy, won the 2006 Winter Games."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-000057490jul13.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dsports
Then again, Toronto lost the 96 bid and didn't win it for 2008.....
<<<<<<I think China won as a giant "Fck U" to America. A lot of people/countries have a real jealousy and resentment of America and likely many voters thought that giving the Olympics to China would really "get the goat" of the Americans>>>>>>
Nope....the IOC felt guilty for what happened in 1993 when Syndey got the 2000 Olympics:
"After the voting in 1993, when Beijing lost to Sydney by two votes, it was disclosed that the night before the vote, the president of the Australian Olympic Committee had offered $35,000 in aid to IOC delegates from Kenya and Uganda, contingent on a Sydney victory.
The IOC has a recent history of guilt-motivated payback in bid-city elections. Athens lost to Atlanta for the 1996 Games, then won for 2004. Salt Lake City lost to Nagano for the 1998 Winter Games, then won for 2002. Rome lost to Athens for the 2004 Summer Games, then Turin, Italy, won the 2006 Winter Games."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-000057490jul13.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dsports
Then again, Toronto lost the 96 bid and didn't win it for 2008.....
well, congratulations to Beijing.
It seems that neither Toronto's nor Paris' pockets were deep enought for the IOC.
I wonder what'll happen to our waterfront now.
It seems that neither Toronto's nor Paris' pockets were deep enought for the IOC.
I wonder what'll happen to our waterfront now.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,799
- 6,356
- 126
Congrats China! Too bad Toronto. (next time eh?)
The IOC has always tried to put politics asside when choosing hosts. Which is why the Soviet Union and Communist Yugoslavia were granted past Olympics. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that the US delegates voted for China for the reasons mentioned above.
Contrary to some peoples world view, every international decision doesn't revolve around giving the US the finger!
(next time eh?)The IOC has always tried to put politics asside when choosing hosts. Which is why the Soviet Union and Communist Yugoslavia were granted past Olympics. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that the US delegates voted for China for the reasons mentioned above.
Contrary to some peoples world view, every international decision doesn't revolve around giving the US the finger!
I want to thank Kosugi for his reply. I am hopeful your perspective on the situation proves to be the correct one.
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