Congrats to Bartolo Colon, 2005 AL Cy Young Winner!

[NutBucket]

That's all. Discuss.

PS: Hopefully he won't get hurt during the playoffs next year:disgust:

 

[ThePresence]

Rivera should've won. They hate giving it to relief pitchers. Oh well, Colon had a great year.

 

[Toasthead]

Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL last year.

Fixed

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

No. Mariano Rivera was.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

No. Mariano Rivera was.

Too bad the rest of the staff stunk

 

[Toasthead]

Originally posted by: SaltBoy

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL last year.

Fixed

Santana beat him in ERA 2.87 to 3.48, and the Twins actually had a better record in Santana's starts than the Angels did in Colon's.

 

[Toasthead]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

No. Mariano Rivera was.

Rivera only pitched 78 innings. Santana pitched three times that many and had similar numbers. how can rivera be more valuable?

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

No. Mariano Rivera was.

Rivera only pitched 78 innings. Santana pitched three times that many and had similar numbers. how can rivera be more valuable?

Because his 78 innings are in 71 different games and Santana's are in 33. There's no way the Yankees got near making the postseason without him.
And their stats are not similiar. Santana had a 2.87 ERA and Rivera had a 1.38.

 

[Miramonti]

Closers != Cy Young worthiness, friggin one-inning wonders. :roll:

 

[TNM93]

What was Clemens ERA this year? I haven't followed baseball stats since the 1980's.

 

[NutBucket]

Clemens was under 2. Pretty amazing.

 

[Toasthead]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

No. Mariano Rivera was.

Rivera only pitched 78 innings. Santana pitched three times that many and had similar numbers. how can rivera be more valuable?

Because his 78 innings are in 71 different games and Santana's are in 33. There's no way the Yankees got near making the postseason without him.
And their stats are not similiar. Santana had a 2.87 ERA and Rivera had a 1.38.

You are right. Santana's 2.87 ERA in 231 Innings is much more valuable to his team.

The A's, Braves and Red Sox proved this year that any pitcher can fill that 'closer' role and thrive. Its much easier to 'fool' hitters the first time through the lineup than to keep hitters off balance for several innings.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

No. Mariano Rivera was.

Rivera only pitched 78 innings. Santana pitched three times that many and had similar numbers. how can rivera be more valuable?

Because his 78 innings are in 71 different games and Santana's are in 33. There's no way the Yankees got near making the postseason without him.
And their stats are not similiar. Santana had a 2.87 ERA and Rivera had a 1.38.

You are right. Santana's 2.87 ERA in 231 Innings is much more valuable to his team.

I don't agree at all. Santana had a great year, but his impact was only felt in 33 games. Rivera impacted 78 different games. He helped his team win 78 different games. I believe Rivera was more valuable to his team, especially if you watched the Yankees this year.

 

[happybelly]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

No. Mariano Rivera was.

Rivera only pitched 78 innings. Santana pitched three times that many and had similar numbers. how can rivera be more valuable?

Because his 78 innings are in 71 different games and Santana's are in 33. There's no way the Yankees got near making the postseason without him.
And their stats are not similiar. Santana had a 2.87 ERA and Rivera had a 1.38.

You are right. Santana's 2.87 ERA in 231 Innings is much more valuable to his team.

I don't agree at all. Santana had a great year, but his impact was only felt in 33 games. Rivera impacted 78 different games. He helped his team win 78 different games. I believe Rivera was more valuable to his team, especially if you watched the Yankees this year.

The Cy Young is for the best pitcher of the year, not the most valuable. The MVP award is for most valuable. Rivera was probably more valuable than Santana this year, but Santana had a better season IMO.

Both Santana and Rivera deserved it more than Shrek, though.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

No. Mariano Rivera was.

ROFL! When was the last time someone other than Gagne won Cy Young as a closer? Uh, yeah. Hell even Bob Wickman had more saves than Rivera and only blew one more. If Rivera went perfect all year and didn't blow one game, MAYBE. He blew 4, sorry, but not Cy Young material.

Edit: There's a reason why starters are more valuable to a team than closers. Good closers are a dime a dozen, I could name 3 off the top of my head that I would take and not be worried at all about not making the playoffs. They may not be as good as Rivera, but it really doesn't matter that much with the NY offense. A lights out pure #1 starter like Johan is much harder to find and compensate for.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

No. Mariano Rivera was.

Rivera only pitched 78 innings. Santana pitched three times that many and had similar numbers. how can rivera be more valuable?

Because his 78 innings are in 71 different games and Santana's are in 33. There's no way the Yankees got near making the postseason without him.
And their stats are not similiar. Santana had a 2.87 ERA and Rivera had a 1.38.

You are right. Santana's 2.87 ERA in 231 Innings is much more valuable to his team.

The A's, Braves and Red Sox proved this year that any pitcher can fill that 'closer' role and thrive. Its much easier to 'fool' hitters the first time through the lineup than to keep hitters off balance for several innings.

Please don't try to compare first-time closers to Mariano. Get back to me when they are the most dominant closer in baseball over 10+ years. The Red Sox did anything but prove that, btw. Their closer role was never filled and they lost a bunch of games in last inning.

 

[happybelly]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

No. Mariano Rivera was.

ROFL! When was the last time someone other than Gagne won Cy Young as a closer? Uh, yeah. Hell even Bob Wickman had more saves than Rivera and only blew one more. If Rivera went perfect all year and didn't blow one game, MAYBE. He blew 4, sorry, but not Cy Young material.

He blew two in the first week of the season and then became dominate again. Saves are overrated, Wickman wasn't even close to Rivera this season in stats or any other way. Rivera pitched more innings and helped his team far more than Wickman.

I agree he wasn't the Cy Young, but he had a great season.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Johann Santana was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

No. Mariano Rivera was.

ROFL! When was the last time someone other than Gagne won Cy Young as a closer? Uh, yeah. Hell even Bob Wickman had more saves than Rivera and only blew one more. If Rivera went perfect all year and didn't blow one game, MAYBE. He blew 4, sorry, but not Cy Young material.

Edit: There's a reason why starters are more valuable to a team than closers. Good closers are a dime a dozen, I could name 3 off the top of my head that I would take and not be worried at all about not making the playoffs. They may not be as good as Rivera, but it really doesn't matter that much with the NY offense. A lights out pure #1 starter like Johan is much harder to find and compensate for.

I'll disregard the first part of your comment as being a passionate Sox fan kneejerk reaction to the name Rivera.

I disagree that the Yankee offense was good enough to get to where there got to without Mariano. There is no way they win the East without Rivera, or even close.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Please don't try to compare first-time closers to Mariano. Get back to me when they are the most dominant closer in baseball over 10+ years. The Red Sox did anything but prove that, btw. Their closer role was never filled and they lost a bunch of games in last inning.

Rivera's longevity is very impressive, but if you look at that longevity we've seen some massive chokes. The two biggest are vs Boston last year and the DBacks in 01.

Also, it still doesn't take away from the fact that in any given year, there are closers who are always just as good, if not better, than him. Look at the list: Wagner, Gagne, KRod, Lidge, hell even Bobby Jenks has nasty stuff. All easily have higher K/9 ratings than Rivera this year, Wagner even had a better WHIP and this was Rivera's best year EVER. Now do you see what I mean? Unless your name is Gagne, you better have better stats than Gagne's epic year if you want to win the Cy Young.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Please don't try to compare first-time closers to Mariano. Get back to me when they are the most dominant closer in baseball over 10+ years. The Red Sox did anything but prove that, btw. Their closer role was never filled and they lost a bunch of games in last inning.

Rivera's longevity is very impressive, but if you look at that longevity we've seen some massive chokes. The two biggest are vs Boston last year and the DBacks in 01.

Also, it still doesn't take away from the fact that in any given year, there are closers who are always just as good, if not better, than him. Look at the list: Wagner, Gagne, KRod, Lidge, hell even Bobby Jenks has nasty stuff. All easily have higher K/9 ratings than Rivera this year, Wagner even had a better WHIP and this was Rivera's best year EVER. Now do you see what I mean? Unless your name is Gagne, you better have better stats than Gagne's epic year if you want to win the Cy Young.

Massive chokes? The Arizona game was the softest blown save I have ever seen. The Red Sox last year would not have won if Roberts hadn't had the speed that he did. Of course that doesn't let Rivera off the hook, but too call them massive chokes is ridiculous.