Confusing sleep patterns

[polarmystery]

I an attempt to try and get better sleep, I have tried to eliminate caffeine from my diet. I've noticed a weird trend in my sleep habits and was wondering if it could be explained. Here is what happens (For the record, I have a very well balanced diet, I don't eat bad food at all, I use fitday like it's going out of style and I weight train 4x a week and do cardio 6x a week).

If I have 1 can of caffeine (either Pepsi, Mt. Dew, whatever but only 1 a day max) it takes me at least an hour and a half to fall asleep but I stay asleep for about 3 hours, then wake up to have to pee, then sleep for another 3 hours and have to get up. I start to try and sleep at 10:30pm.

If I have zero caffeine (after a week of not having any at all) it takes me around 45 minutes to fall asleep, but I wake up every two hours not having to pee, just waking up intermittently every two hours then falling back to sleep after about 15-30 min.

I have been desperately trying to fall asleep for at least 7 hours because I work out a lot but I feel like I am suffering psychologically and physically from the lack of sleep I should be getting. I drink water regularly but not too much (a gallon max a day or 1.5 during training) and of course I pee more frequently when I have the caffeine.

I've been to a sleep study doctor but I could not complete the test because I could not fall asleep with the wires/machine attached to my head. I've been on Ambien, Lunesta, Rozerm, Unisom, Advil PM, and Tylenol PM and none of them have helped me get a continual night sleep.

Any suggestions ATOT? I'm kind of at ropes end here.

 

[Drakkon]

Do you watch TV or do anything in bed to try to get to sleep? If so stop...move to a chair or somewhere else that's not bed or move the tv/books/etc out of the room. once you start nodding off then get in bed. make the bed specifically for sleeping purposes. after 2 weeks getting in bed should then be a trigger to fall asleep. (what a neurologist told me and it seemed to work)

 

[0roo0roo]

apnea?

 

[0roo0roo]

http://www.mininova.org/tor/2589972

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
http://www.mininova.org/tor/2589972

that sight is blocked for me at work.

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
apnea?

I haven't ruled that out but I'm not sure

Originally posted by: Drakkon
Do you watch TV or do anything in bed to try to get to sleep? If so stop...move to a chair or somewhere else that's not bed or move the tv/books/etc out of the room. once you start nodding off then get in bed. make the bed specifically for sleeping purposes. after 2 weeks getting in bed should then be a trigger to fall asleep. (what a neurologist told me and it seemed to work)

I don't watch tv before I go to bed. I read or study for a certification in the fall. The bookshelf is in another room along with my computer. All that I have in the room is the dresser and bed. You think it would be a good idea to visit a neurologist? I haven't tried that yet.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: polarmystery

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
http://www.mininova.org/tor/2589972

that sight is blocked for me at work.

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
apnea?

I haven't ruled that out but I'm not sure

Originally posted by: Drakkon
Do you watch TV or do anything in bed to try to get to sleep? If so stop...move to a chair or somewhere else that's not bed or move the tv/books/etc out of the room. once you start nodding off then get in bed. make the bed specifically for sleeping purposes. after 2 weeks getting in bed should then be a trigger to fall asleep. (what a neurologist told me and it seemed to work)

I don't watch tv before I go to bed. I read or study for a certification in the fall. The bookshelf is in another room along with my computer. All that I have in the room is the dresser and bed. You think it would be a good idea to visit a neurologist? I haven't tried that yet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00j08h7
its just a torrent to this bbc documentary

 

[0roo0roo]

damn time warp.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00j08h7
download it later when u get home

 

[AmberClad]

When are you having your can of soda a day? Because IIRC, the half-life of caffeine in your system is only around four hours. (I normally have a cup of coffee and two sodas in the early morning.)

Maybe you're just not all that tired yet at 10:30pm ?

 

[TheKub]

If you dont already try switching your workout times to the morning. Maybe your working yourself up too much and its keeping you awake?

The only other thing I can offer is stop thinking about it. My girlfriend can lay in bed for hour+ trying to fall asleep becasue she is worrying about crap (as well as sleep). Generally I can be out in less than 10 min even when not that tired. Though every few months or so something will be going on at work or in life thats on my mind and it can take me hours to fall a sleep.

If your soooo concerned and focused on the fact that you are not falling asleep that may be why you have trouble.

Why am I not sleeping its been 45min..... gezz fall asleep already.... come on I have to get up early tomorrow.... should I do (insert name of workout routine) or (insert name of alternative workout routine).... ok this is just getting silly I have been trying to sleep for over an hour..... etc....

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: AmberClad
When are you having your can of soda a day? Because IIRC, the half-life of caffeine in your system is only around four hours. (I normally have a cup of coffee and two sodas in the early morning.)

Maybe you're just not all that tired yet at 10:30pm ?

I usually just have it in the morning instead of coffee as I don't like the taste of coffee. 10am is usually when I have it. I thought the half-life for caffeine was 11 hours? I am tired because I yawn a lot but I just don't fall asleep.

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: polarmystery

Originally posted by: AmberClad
When are you having your can of soda a day? Because IIRC, the half-life of caffeine in your system is only around four hours. (I normally have a cup of coffee and two sodas in the early morning.)

Maybe you're just not all that tired yet at 10:30pm ?

I usually just have it in the morning instead of coffee as I don't like the taste of coffee. 10am is usually when I have it. I thought the half-life for caffeine was 11 hours? I am tired because I yawn a lot but I just don't fall asleep.

Checking Wikipedia...

In healthy adults, caffeine's half-life is approximately 4.9 hours

Looking at the charts, regular soda (i.e. non-energy drinks) is comparatively low on caffeine anyway. Only about 30-50 mL a serving, compared to drip brewed coffee at 115-175 mL.

I find it hard to believe that your sleep issues are due mostly to caffeine...

 

[Lamont Burns]

cliffs

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: TheKub
If you dont already try switching your workout times to the morning. Maybe your working yourself up too much and its keeping you awake?

The only other thing I can offer is stop thinking about it. My girlfriend can lay in bed for hour+ trying to fall asleep becasue she is worrying about crap (as well as sleep). Generally I can be out in less than 10 min even when not that tired. Though every few months or so something will be going on at work or in life thats on my mind and it can take me hours to fall a sleep.

If your soooo concerned and focused on the fact that you are not falling asleep that may be why you have trouble.

Why am I not sleeping its been 45min..... gezz fall asleep already.... come on I have to get up early tomorrow.... should I do (insert name of workout routine) or (insert name of alternative workout routine).... ok this is just getting silly I have been trying to sleep for over an hour..... etc....

The italicized text does happen. One doctor I went to gave me a perscription of Klonopin because he thought I could have anxiety issues. I told him my brain wouldn't "shut up" so I could fall asleep. It actually worked pretty well as I could fall asleep in about 40 minutes on it, but the perscription was only for a month. I'd like to be able to sleep on my own naturally.


Edit: The Klonopin worked for letting me fall asleep for 6 hours straight but I was told I shouldn't be on it very long as it's a fairly potent drug.

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: Lamont Burns
cliffs

1. Problems sleeping
2. Drinking caffeine makes me sleep 3 hours/wake up/3 more hours
3. Not drinking makes me sleep 2 hours/wake up/2 hours/etc.
4. Drugs don't work
5. Been to Dr. Have healthy lifestyle and eating habits.

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: AmberClad

Originally posted by: polarmystery

Originally posted by: AmberClad
When are you having your can of soda a day? Because IIRC, the half-life of caffeine in your system is only around four hours. (I normally have a cup of coffee and two sodas in the early morning.)

Maybe you're just not all that tired yet at 10:30pm ?

I usually just have it in the morning instead of coffee as I don't like the taste of coffee. 10am is usually when I have it. I thought the half-life for caffeine was 11 hours? I am tired because I yawn a lot but I just don't fall asleep.

Checking Wikipedia...

In healthy adults, caffeine's half-life is approximately 4.9 hours

Looking at the charts, regular soda (i.e. non-energy drinks) is comparatively low on caffeine anyway. Only about 30-50 mL a serving, compared to drip brewed coffee at 115-175 mL.

I find it hard to believe that your sleep issues are due mostly to caffeine...

I agree with this, just trying to do the process of elimination of all that could be affecting my sleep habits.

 

[lokiju]

How about doing a sleep study?

My wife did one but it really didn't help her honestly.

But it helps some if they discover something that happens in your sleep you'd otherwise not know about.

 

[TheKub]

Originally posted by: lokiju
How about doing a sleep study?

My wife did one but it really didn't help her honestly.

But it helps some if they discover something that happens in your sleep you'd otherwise not know about.

Yeah I know people that have done these and they havnt really worked. You can try a DIY item...

http://www.fitbit.com/

It wont help fall asleep but it might help show you how well you appear to be sleeping.

 

[ggnl]

If you're a chronic insomniac there might not be muich you can do about it except medicate. Besides that all you can do is practice good sleep hygiene and hope for the best.

 

[TheKub]

Originally posted by: polarmystery
The italicized text does happen. One doctor I went to gave me a perscription of Klonopin because he thought I could have anxiety issues.

Maybe look at taking a yoga or meditation class. Something that trains you to control your brain\thoughts.

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: TheKub

Originally posted by: polarmystery
The italicized text does happen. One doctor I went to gave me a perscription of Klonopin because he thought I could have anxiety issues.

Maybe look at taking a yoga or meditation class. Something that trains you to control your brain\thoughts.

On the to-do list but I forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me though!


*yawns at work*

 

[Lamont Burns]

Cut the soda, workout earlier. 4x weight and 6x cardio... could be symptoms of overtraining?

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: Lamont Burns
Cut the soda, workout earlier. 4x weight and 6x cardio... could be symptoms of overtraining?

I haven't ruled that out either, so this week (I just moved into a house) I am going to scale by my workouts and do them in the morning in an attempt to fix the problem. I'm open to all suggestions.