Confused Non-OCer

stonebyte

Junior Member
Mar 20, 2006
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So, my current system is now closing in on two years old. It was the first time I'd ever built a computer, and everything went quite smoothly. But the time has come to do it again.

I've been reading MoBo reviews left and right, doing as much research as possible and have really only managed to confuse myself. SO... let me lay down a bunch of questions, and see who can answer what. I'm not sure what the most logical order for me to pose these questions would be, so forgive me if I'm jumping around a lot. I'm just writing this as it occurs to me.

By the way, I realize that opinions are wide and varied, but I'm hoping to get at least a general sense of the direction I should be headed with things.

Oh, and... my current system is an AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Clawhammer (Socket 754), AOpen AK86-L, OCZ enhanced latency (2x512) DDR 400 memory, WD Raptor 74GB, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and a Thermaltake Silent PurePower 480W PS.

1. Processor. At first I was married to to the idea of an Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego. I have no idea why. I guess because the Anandtech guide told me so. Now I've decided I'm not averse to paying a bit more for the processor than that. The FX line is out of my league, but what about the Athlon 64 4000+ or the Athlon 64 X2 3800+? Which of those would be a smarter choice for me? There's no single function that best describes my use, so it may be a tough call. The only game I play is EQ2 and (when it's released) Vanguard... and, frankly, even my 9800 Pro has been suiting me fine in EQ2 up to now. I could possibly be convinced to get the Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (Manchester) if the consensus is that the performance increase is worth the extra $60.

2. Motherboard. This one has REALLY been giving me fits. My dilemma is, I don't think I need SLI. I really don't have a need, as far as I can tell, for that kind of graphics processing power... since the games I play aren't all THAT demanding. But the problem is, the whole passive cooling on the motherboard (a la Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe) makes my nipples hard, and it doesn't seem easy to find that particular feature on a non-SLI motherboard. What I think I need is a high-quality, feature-rich non-SLI motherboard. But those features I admire so greatly ONLY seem to come on SLI motherboards. Should I just accept that I'm going to have to spend nearly $200 on a motherboard with lots of features I don't need, in order to get the few features that I want? If so... how do we feel about the MSI K8N Diamond Plus? I like the upgraded onboard sound it offers. What other alternatives are there for someone who really only plans to use a single video card and doesn't plan to do any overclocking?

3. Graphics card. I've kind of assumed I should just go with the eVGA 7800GT. If I'm reasonably satisfied with a 2+ year old Radeon 9800 Pro, wouldn't the 7800GT completely blow it out of the water, anyway? Even with just ONE? What other options might I consider?

4. Memory. I think I want to upgrade to 2GB of memory. I'll take any recommendations. I've been happy with the OCZ, but I'm not married to the brand. I want something that's good, fast, and high quality at stock speeds. Should I just get a matched pair of 1GB modules... or should I get a matched pair of 1GB modules AND throw the two 512s I already have into the other two slots for a total of 3GB? Is that even possible? Not sure what the best idea would be.

5. Storage. I have the 74GB Raptor. I can just use this again, right? For media files, I have an external hard drive I use to store that crap.

6. Power Supply. Do I need to get a different one? I read somewhere that Thermaltake sucks (which was the opposite of what I'd read when I first bought it). I haven't had any problems with it, other than the fact that it's loud.

7. Noise. I probably should have mentioned this earlier. My current PC? Freaking noisy as all get-out. Why is it that my Dell at work is so quiet, and this thing I created is so noisy? What is the single biggest source of noise in a computer? Because whatever it is, I'm going to smack it with a hammer.

I think that's it for now. Sorry for being so wordy. I write copy for a living. It's kind of a habit.

Thanks!
Jason
 

stonebyte

Junior Member
Mar 20, 2006
6
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Sorry for the bump, but I'm really hoping to benefit from some of the expertise floating around here. Anyone?
 

imported_rod

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2005
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CPU: Athlon 64 X2 3800+
MoBo: Just get an SLI board. Who knows, one day you might actually use SLI...
VC: 7800GT is good, but the 7900GT is only slightly more expensive (if you can actually find a store that has them in stock).
RAM: For an athlon, don't mix different sizes. 2x 1GB should be plenty.
HDD: What you have sounds alright.
PSU: That PSU 'should' be OK. How many amps does it supply on the +12V line.
Noise: A zalman CNPS9500 will reduce the noise from your CPU fan.

RoD
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
18
81
honestly unless you are made out of money her eis what i would do. an athlon 64 3200+ is plenty fast for pretty much every game out there, you probably wont even see a speed increase with say a 3700+ san diego or a x2 3800. the 3200+ runs at 2.0 ghz 1mb and well thats the same clock speed as the 3800+ X2. in single threaded apps (i.e. games in general) youd probably not even get a frame rate increase.

not to mention i think i would just hold out until am2 at least, so i dont sink a ton of money into an older platform. you already have a raptor so i guess thats ok, but yeah your video card needs works

if i were you'd i'd not set my money on fire. buy yourself a new agp video card like say a 7800gs, or a 6800gs agp. or if you feel a little more enterprising buy a socket 754 board with pci-E and a 7800gt or 7900gt or something along those lines.

for the noise issue just buy new fans. and i think if you are running games at high res, i've heard in a game like say World of warcraft (well thats the only game i play) i've heard 2 GB can help at higher res, so maybe just buy another 1 gb stick of ram to add to your 2 512s.
 

docdar

Junior Member
Nov 9, 2005
3
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Hans!!!
Way too practical. I am in the exact same position as StoneByte, but I've only been researching for about a week now. I am planning on playing Oblivion and would hate to dump $500 into my old box to upgrade video and MoBo.
I also wonder what proccesor is most practical if not overclocking.

(Sigh....even though I know you're right Hans.... :( )
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
18
81
Originally posted by: docdar
Hans!!!
Way too practical. I am in the exact same position as StoneByte, but I've only been researching for about a week now. I am planning on playing Oblivion and would hate to dump $500 into my old box to upgrade video and MoBo.
I also wonder what proccesor is most practical if not overclocking.

(Sigh....even though I know you're right Hans.... :( )

yeah , i used to spend money on more premium ish things, but well... i realized there were much better things to spend it on. the really "high end" computer stuff always depreciates so fast too, it really is like setting money on fire. honestly if i had bought a 7800gtx in october and found out 7900gts were $299 now when i paid $499 in october for a slower higher power card, i'd be pretty mad honestly.
 

Luckyboy1

Senior member
Mar 13, 2006
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Reviews are fun when you are just getting back into the idea of seriously doing a new build. There are several problems with reviews and the biggest one is the board they reviewed is NOT the same... or might be the same asn the board you get if you but the same model number. At this point he's probably wondering what in the wide world of sports I'm talking about.

Well, before I get to that, let's talk about...


See no evil
Hear no evil
Speak no evil

When was the last time a review site came out and said something like...

The new XYZ board sucks big, rotten ones!

Well, are you trying to tell me all parts now fly off the assembly line with flowers coming out of their... cough!... selves?!

The review sites know that if they pounce too hard, the hardware people won't send them a free copy of the next toy.

Then to the really big problem and that's what I talked about first. Life is like a box of hardware, you never know what you get! Ok, here's the scenario...

A designer and maker of mommaboards puts out a new mommaboard and it slowly start to sell. They also send out a few boards to places like anandtech and the review finally gets posted something like....

While leaving it in auto mode is porked like with most other mommaboards, if you set this, and this, and this, and this and tweak this and that... WOW!!! Go get that board!

Here's where the fun begins! The logistical guy for the mommaboard maker comes into work the next Monday and finds like 20,000 begging orders for the part in question! He says...

Hey boss, WTF should I do about all this nonsense?!

Get production to kick it in gear and if they run out of the quality capacitors, resistors or anything else and we'll get replacements as soon as possible. Also, call the Chinese company that subs for us, but could care less about quality and have them stamping out parts as well.

So, as you can see, a part number is a part number is not sometimes... and most times the same. You have to find some demented tweaker of gaming parts who tests lot numbers. The only guy I know who meets that spec is Joe at www.magnum-pc.com

Give him a call or e-mail and not only will you get the right answer for you, but he will help you set it up if you buy from him and that's easily worth another $10.00 or so. This scenario also applies to system RAM and to a lesser extent, everything else.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
18
81
well , the review sites ou there are pretty much like the car sites out there. ever see a bmw really get bashed hard, or audi getting bashed hard for having awful reliability etc.

completely biased based on who is sending them what. first off pretty much ANY board is ok for a non-OCer. i mean whatever frys sells is fine, like ecs or whatever.

at least with casr you can go get consumerreports and be ok with that. too bad consumerreports doesnt review motherboards.
 

reset

Member
Feb 8, 2000
76
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Originally posted by: rod
RAM: For an athlon, don't mix different sizes. 2x 1GB should be plenty.
RoD

can you explain that a little bit please or have some links to more info. i've got a 3500+ 939 and running 2x512MB sticks right now. ordered 2x1GB stick. would it be adverse for to use all four?
 

LittleNemoNES

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
4,142
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If you're not going to OC,
CPU: Athlon 64 X2 3800
Mobo: DFI Ultra-Infinity
Memory: OCZ value ram
GPU: GeForce 7900GT
Storage: Seagate 7200.9s
 

stonebyte

Junior Member
Mar 20, 2006
6
0
0
Thanks for the replies, folks. Because I'm horribly impatient, I ended up ordering some stuff from Newegg, even though I realize the smart thing to do would have been to just wait. I got the Athlon 64 X2 3800, Asus A8N-SLI Premium, 2GB of G.Skill PC3200 memory (never heard of this company, but the customer reviews on Newegg were pretty good... I just hope it doesn't suck), and a 7800GT (yes, I know the 7900GT would have been better... but I couldn't find it anywhere in stock that I trusted). It'll all get to my house tomorrow, so sayeth FedEx.

I'm not really looking forward to reinstalling all my software. But I guess it needs to be done. Blech. I always end up losing something important... alas.

Thanks again, everyone.
 

Bobthelost

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,360
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0
The 7800GT is a bad choice. It's a good card (i use one now and can't find a bad thing to say about it), but a terrible purchase at the moment.

Will you be happy with the computer? Yes. But you'll also have that niggling little voice saying "it could have been better..."
 

stonebyte

Junior Member
Mar 20, 2006
6
0
0
I already know it could have been better, but I'll just do what I did almost two years ago after I finished my current build: pay absolutely ZERO attention to the industry until I feel it's time to upgrade again. What I don't know won't hurt me. I figure I'll revisit the situation when Windows Vista is finally released. The fact that they just pushed back the release date buys me at least that much more time before I get to do this again.

No matter what hardware I get, I'm going to be behind the curve (or will be) within a matter of a couple months. I figure, if I go into a hardware purchase accepting that fact, it makes it a lot easier to swallow. :D
 

Bobthelost

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,360
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It would be, much better than my bitterness as my cutting edge rig becomes more and more obsolescent as the seconds tick away :(
 

stonebyte

Junior Member
Mar 20, 2006
6
0
0
Okay, ONE more question, then I promise to shut up. Sort of.

Right now, I have a WD Raptor 74GB for system files and applications... and then a large external HD for other media. Would it be better/faster to continue with that setup... or just replace the whole thing with a single WD Caviar 320GB SATA 3.0Gb/s drive?

There's one on Newegg that's gotten great customer reviews (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822136003), and it's really cheap. I wonder if THAT would be a better alternative...? Anyone?

Thanks
 

1N0V471V

Senior member
Mar 13, 2006
410
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Motherboard: DFI LANPARTY NF4 Ultra-D
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 3800+
CPU Cooler: Zalman CNPS9500
GPU: eVGA GeForce 7900GT
CPU Cooler: Zalman VF900CU when they come out (to reduce noise)
RAM: 2X1GB OCZ Platinum
HDD: 74GB Raptor
PSU: 520w OCZ Powerstream
DVD: NEC Dual-Layer 8+/-RW

I think it would be silly not to get a dual-core CPU. Buying an Athlon 64 would be good, but the performance increase between what you currently have would be very insignificant. The dual-core X2 will be perfect, and you'll be able to keep the system for at least a year and a half while still having good performance. 2GB of RAM is really a must if you're planning on running Windows Vista or current games with good settings. The 7900GT is great and should really hold it's own for quite a while. And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make sure you get a good PSU.
 

Bobthelost

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,360
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Originally posted by: stonebyte
Okay, ONE more question, then I promise to shut up. Sort of.

Right now, I have a WD Raptor 74GB for system files and applications... and then a large external HD for other media. Would it be better/faster to continue with that setup... or just replace the whole thing with a single WD Caviar 320GB SATA 3.0Gb/s drive?

There's one on Newegg that's gotten great customer reviews (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822136003), and it's really cheap. I wonder if THAT would be a better alternative...? Anyone?

Thanks

Well it'd be better to put the large external drive as an internal one (unless you've got eSATA, which you won't ;)). I think sticking with the WD 74 + additional drive is the best option.