DragonMasterAlex
Banned
- Feb 3, 2001
- 5,156
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Originally posted by: leeboy
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
If it's true that your son died in Iraq, I'm sorry to hear it. However I am saddened more that you dishonor the memory of your son by failing to support the cause in which he VOLUNTEERED his service. The cause of Liberty is a noble one, one WORTH fighting for. Those who stand in the service of this cause are heroes and deserve that recognition, not the dishonor of attacking their cause and claiming it was based on lies when you have no such knowledge.
Jason
Dishonor! That takes the cake! I am in no mood to agrue with a screen name on the internet right now but will tell you this in closing and will say no more:
You have no such knowledge that this war was NOT predicated on lies. Dying for you country is noble, but just becuase you are in the army, over in some foreign country, and die does not mean that you died for Liberty as you put it.
My God are you so in love with Bush that you can not see that?
Liberty my a$$. Who have we liberated? Why did we have to "Liberate" that country? Why was it our job? Why did we have to do it WHEN we did it? Why, when the rest of the world said, Sorry USA, we are not going to back you on this, did we continue to spin away that WMDs were ready to be launched at any time against us and our interests?
Get off your high horse and quit wrapping yourself in the flag to deflect the truth. The presidents rush to jump the gun has cost me and many like me a child or a brother or a Dad or Mom. I don't know a one that I have communicated with since this occured who feels their child, dad, mom, etc died for Liberty as you put it. My child's death has made you no safer when you go to sleep at night. It may have made the mother or a father of a child in Mosul feel a little safer to know that another of the Americans were dead though. And you know what in all honesty, I could care less at this point in my life about the landscape and the political climate of Iraq. We have enough problems over here in THIS country thank you very much.
Well I'm most assuredly *not* in love with Bush, I think he's something of an imbecile, all in all, and I think that the WMD talk probably *was* just spin, though I don't think you or I have enough information to conclusively say whether Bush and company lied or just had crappy intel, or whether Saddam really *did* spirit the WMD's away before we got there. There is a LOT that can happen, and as much as we like simple answers like "He lied!" or "Saddam hid them!" or whatever, I think the TRUTH is that we just flat out DON'T know.
That said, you have to look at the long-term picture when you consider the importance of Iraq as a place for Liberty to grow in that region. The middle east has NEVER known Liberty in the way that you and I know it, they have never known religious freedom or tolerance, nor have they known the concept of Natural Rights or equality. I don't know whether the world is safer today than it was 6 months ago, but if we do this thing in Iraq properly, if we give them a foundation in the ideas that made our country great and free, those ideas will spread throughout that region. It might take 100 years, but those ideas WILL spread, and in time the people of that region will refuse to settle for brutality and persecution. It's not a simple overnight goal; it's not as simple as taking out a handful of guys and letting everything sort itself out.
There is a tendency among people to remain in familiar patterns, even if those patterns are unhealthy. It's the reason why dysfunction passes from generation to generation in families, and it's the reason why countries like China have lived in bondage and the middle east has remained in religious conflict for thousands of years. People stay in those patterns *because* they are familiar. It takes a powerful catalyzing agent to break their learned way of living and help them reorganize on a higher level. In the US we think, as RD said above, that people should just overthrow their own oppressive governments and declare their own Liberty.
Morally, that's true; they should do that. Psychologically and historically it is VERY unlikely and very difficult, just as it is difficult for a child who grows up with abusive parents to escape the trap of becoming an abuser him or herself. Most of the time they *can't* get out of it on their own, and often they don't even realize it's a problem until a therapist is able to work with them, sometimes for years, to help them see their problem --their learned pattern-- and overcome it. In the middle east you are seeing the same pattern, the same principle at work, but on the scale of many nations who have been at religious odds for thousands of years. The number of people is much greater, but the principle is the same.
I understand that you are bitter about the loss of your son. Anyone would be, and my heart does go out to you and the many other families who lost loved ones in this terrible conflict. It might not bring you comfort, but then again it might, to realize that somewhere down the road--perhaps even beyond the time of your and my death--that a huge percentage of the world will be freer, safer, and more tolerant of differences than they are today. Your son, as well as the sons and daughters of many other Americans, will have been the foundation of that understanding and tolerance. They are the therapist, they are the catalyzing agent that is beginning what must be a long process of change.
For that, I commend all those who have fought, who live and who died in this very noble cause.
Jason
