*****CONFIRMED**** Shuttle outsourcing all mainboard production to ECS

[Bovinicus]

<< That's not the point. I only said that b/c Pabster makes it out that all VIA chipsets suck and that ECS/SiS is perfect. >>

You do have a point there. Pabster seems to have dubbed him self Sir Flame Via of Flame Vialot. I don't think I've ever seen him acknowledge a strong point of a VIA chipset. I wouldn't trade mine for anything. Excpet maybe an IWill XP333 in conjunction with some Corsair PC2700 memory. =)

 

[Pabster]

Bovinicus wrote:

"I don't think I've ever seen him acknowledge a strong point of a VIA chipset."

must...resist...

I think I'll leave it at that.

 

[gregor7777]

Case One: I buy a Epox 8KHA+ for my main system. Fast, reliable, stable as all hell. Set up and ran perfect the first time.Decent price too at a shade over $100. Money very well spent.

Case Two: I need a board for my HTPC. I want something cheap, but reliable, and VERY stable. I choose the ECS SiS solution. But I buy it used for the same price as new because I know it will work the first time.

Both solutions are great for what I need them for.

I realize that all manufacturers will have DOA's, and EVERY board has it's probs, but when I buy something new I shouldn't HAVE to flash the BIOS, modify pins, etc. It easy, but it should be done for me if it NEEDS to be done.

 

[wyvrn]

I have used two ECS boards and haven't had a problem yet. One is in a optometrist's office and has not had a hiccup. The other I built for a friend and I have been running it 24/7 for three days doing all sorts of tests, not a single issue. The only problems I ever had with mainboards were MSI and Abit. The MSI didn't like WD brand hard drives, as soon as I put a Maxtor in it everything ran fine. I have no problem with budget boards since the more expensive ones have failed me more often.

 

[Workin']

<< Pabster seems to have dubbed him self Sir Flame Via of Flame Vialot. >>

LOL. That's an understatement. Funny how he essentially calls the ECS bashers retards while he relentlessly bashes VIA. That's why he has no credibility. But in his single-mindedness he doesn't understand that. I'm not going to give my opinion on either ECS or VIA, let's just say that for every point one "side" makes the other has an equal counter-point.

But all the bashing and nonsense going on has made me not even bother looking at any thread that has "K7S5A" in the topic, even though I've had plenty of experience with them and could probably help some people. I just can't stand the noise.

 

[Diable]

I had two K7S5A that were DOA the third had screwed up sound and the fourth had a defective onboard NIC. The SiS chipset might be good but ECS boards suck ass period. I never had such problems with any of the $150 Asus, Intel, SuperMicro or MSI motherboards I've bought. Pabster, headaches caused by VIA hurt just as much as headaches caused by ECS.

 

[Pabster]

Workin' wrote:

"LOL. That's an understatement. Funny how he essentially calls the ECS bashers retards while he relentlessly bashes VIA. That's why he has no credibility. But in his single-mindedness he doesn't understand that. I'm not going to give my opinion on either ECS or VIA, let's just say that for every point one "side" makes the other has an equal counter-point."

Again, you attempt to paint me out incorrectly. Those who bash ECS never provide any evidence to back up their claims. Same with those who declare SiS 735 "issue prone". When I make a statement about VIA, I have facts to back it up. The issues surrounding VIA core logic are well documented. However, not one person has yet provided concrete facts supporting their accusations of ECS. Be it quality control or otherwise. The evidence, in fact, states the complete opposite. ECS is shipping more mainboards than any other manufacturer right now. Period. If the quality control were anywhere near as bad as some members' would like to believe, they'd be unable to absorb the losses -- let alone the PR -- and they sure as hell wouldn't be shipping the number of mainboards they are. Shuttle wouldn't be outsourcing all their mainboard production to ECS, if their QC was bad. Just stop and think about it. And please, if you wish to bash SiS 735 and announce "issues", provide some evidence instead of open-ended opinion.

 

[spaceman]

ill say it again as it seems this topic keeps popping up
ive owned 2 ecs boards,my current k7s5a and an i1815 based board.
the k7s5a hasnt given me one problem in about a months time now.
the i815 was also pretty nice as well.
for $55 bux,its easily the best board ive ever bought,for any price...it has been the most hassle free AMD board ive owned.


edit:wyvrnn its funny u mention MSI and Abit,they too have given me the most problems as well!I HATE goddamn ABit.

 

[foofoo]

i think that there is an important distinction to be made between manufacturing ability and electronic board design and layout ability. ecs is demonstrating manufacturing ability in their manufacture of boards designed by other people. a poorly designed board will have issues regardless of the quality of the manufacturing process.

 

[AGodspeed]

Pabster said:

Those who bash ECS never provide any evidence to back up their claims. Same with those who declare SiS 735 "issue prone"...However, not one person has yet provided concrete facts supporting their accusations of ECS. Be it quality control or otherwise.

Ok, so now it seems clear that you do not believe that ECS K7S5A boards had any real problems, at least none that could be linked to ECS's poor quality control or an inherent "flaw" or poor design implementation on SiS's part. That's fine. However, I have perused through a good deal of the threads here on these forums and have seen a number of easily repeatable problems:

1. Floppy Drive Corruption under Win2k. This issue was supposedly fixed with a BIOS or a driver update, I can't remember which. Whether it's ECS's fault or SiS's fault doesn't matter, it has to be one of them or both, since this issue was repeatable in many different situations. I'll dig up those K7S5A threads for you Pabster when I get the time.

2. Constant rebooting problems when using high-end, high power consuming T-birds, specifically 1.4GHz T-birds. Supposedly this was a poor signaling implementation on ECS's part. Anand mentioned it in one of his articles; I'll go dig it up in a bit.

These are just two issues that I pulled off the top of my head, I would probably find more if I took the time.

All I'm saying Pabster is that you should keep an open mind, ECS/SiS might not be as problem free as you think.

 

[Diable]

Pabster, I can supply you with all four RMA numbers if you want proof that the four ECS's motherboards I bought were pieces of sh!t?

 

[AGodspeed]

The issues surrounding VIA core logic are well documented.

Come to think of it, what "well documented" VIA core logic related issues are you referring to? I'd just like to know.

I have heard PCI latency issues and poor IDE performance mentioned before about VIA chipsets, but which ones, the KT133? I'd like to see documentation proving that the 2 above mentioned issues are present in current VIA chipsets, specifically the KT266A. I could show you plenty of benchmarks that prove that current VIA chipsets (KT266A in this case) do not have any IDE problems. I'll dig up what I can about VIA's PCI latency "issues."

Thanks Pab.

 

[Pabster]

Candoman wrote:

"I have a well-founded suspicion that the man Pabster is either an ECS or a SiS employee. Seriously, why else would he be such an ECS/SiS zealot? I think that he works for an ECS department maybe, and during the quiet hours peers in AT GH sometimes... Am I not right?"

Yeah, they pay me so well too. Get a grip. I don't work for either ECS nor SiS.

AGodSpeed wrote:

"Ok, so now it seems clear that you do not believe that ECS K7S5A boards had any real problems, at least none that could be linked to ECS's poor quality control or an inherent "flaw" or poor design implementation on SiS's part. That's fine. However, I have perused through a good deal of the threads here on these forums and have seen a number of easily repeatable problems:"

I do not believe K7S5A is inherently flawed, no. There's zero evidence to suggest that, nor any of the zillions of other "facts" floating around from VIA lovers

"1. Floppy Drive Corruption under Win2k. This issue was supposedly fixed with a BIOS or a driver update, I can't remember which. Whether it's ECS's fault or SiS's fault doesn't matter, it has to be one of them or both, since this issue was repeatable in many different situations. I'll dig up those K7S5A threads for you Pabster when I get the time."

A supposed issue which I never encountered, but which I do believe existed. A BIOS revision corrected the issue many months ago. Seeing as how none of the other 735-based mainboards have had such an "issue", there is zero evidence to suggest SiS 735 at fault.

"2. Constant rebooting problems when using high-end, high power consuming T-birds, specifically 1.4GHz T-birds. Supposedly this was a poor signaling implementation on ECS's part. Anand mentioned it in one of his articles; I'll go dig it up in a bit."

I don't buy that. 99% of the "reboot" issues arise from newbies using poor quality and/or insufficient power supplies. You can't expect to power a hungry Thunderbird rig with a power supply from your old P2-300. It ought to be common sense, but ...

"These are just two issues that I pulled off the top of my head, I would probably find more if I took the time."

Let's see. One of the more common "issues" is instability when operating at 133/133. I've personally corrected this issue on countless boards. The culprit, you guessed it. Faulty and/or inadequate/poor power supply.

I'm not suggesting that K7S5A's are "perfect". Of course, people do receive DOA boards and others do fail in quick order. That's no different than any other mainboard manufacturer. To suggest otherwise is asinine.

"All I'm saying Pabster is that you should keep an open mind, ECS/SiS might not be as problem free as you think."

Zero credible evidence has been presented to suggest any issues with SiS 735. It is, IMHO (and supported by many reviewers and users alike) the most stable, rock-solid chipset for Socket A -- perhaps with the exception of the all-AMD solutions offered on dual processor boards.

Zero credible evidence has been presented to suggest ECS has any quality control issues with K7S5A. Zero. The mere fact that people receive DOA boards, have boards fail in short order, or experience "quirks" is no different than any other mainboard on the market. K7S5A is selling in record numbers, and with that, the number of "faulty" boards will be higher. Just think about it. If I sell 1,000,000 K7S5A's, am I not more likely to receive more of them back than if I had only sold 100,000? I don't understand the blatent and
asinine logic of certain forum members' in this respect. To suggest that ECS is guilty of poor quality control is but a cop out. I could start a few threads about the likes of ABIT, MSI, ASUS, etc. and declare each and every one of them guilty of poor quality control -- simply because I've had "bad boards" from each and every vendor.

Diable wrote:

"Pabster, I can supply you with all four RMA numbers if you want proof that the four ECS's motherboards I bought were pieces of sh!t?"

And I'll accept that you had a bad experience with K7S5A. RMA numbers prove nothing. The sheer amount of refurb boards working for people who they obviously didn't before (as they were first-run RMAs, resold immediately) is one example.

 

[Siva]

I helped a friend build a system, he decided on the K7S5A because it was cheap, and the best thing out there at the time. After two DOA boards, a week and a half without his computer, shipping costs to newegg, and hours of headaches because of it, he finally picked up an Epox 8KHA and has never looked back.

I'm a fairly experienced builder, and I know i sure as hell didn't fvck anything up that couldn't have at least gotten a post from the damn boards. I will never ever trust ECS after that experience. You don't just get two DOA boards in a row (unless you have the worst luck in the world).

 

[Pabster]

AGodSpeed wrote:

"Come to think of it, what "well documented" VIA core logic related issues are you referring to? I'd just like to know."

Why not try a simple search? Google lists over 44,000 documents pertaining to the phrase VIA CHIPSET ISSUES. Coincidental? Better yet, avoid the misnomers and look around at the usual places. TH, [ H ], ViaHardware, et al. There's no shortage of information on the myriad of issues plaguing both the latest and the oldest VIA core logic.

"I have heard PCI latency issues and poor IDE performance mentioned before about VIA chipsets, but which ones, the KT133? I'd like to see documentation proving that the 2 above mentioned issues are present in current VIA chipsets, specifically the KT266A. I could show you plenty of benchmarks that prove that current VIA chipsets (KT266A in this case) do not have any IDE problems. I'll dig up what I can about VIA's PCI latency "issues."

People often mistake or wrongly list the chipset they are referring to. 8366A doesn't have any known issues (KT266A). The problem lies in the south bridge. 8233, VIA's currently shipping south bridge, suffers from a host of issues reminiscient of each and every VIA south bridge since MVP3. PCI latency, dismal IDE performance, SB! Live/Audigy troubles (Yes, not everyone has success with 8233 and these cards) ... the list goes on. Just look around a little. Nearly every tech site on the net has at least one (if not many) articles pertaining to the documented and well-known issues surrounding VIA core logic.

To show me that KT266A (8366A) has "no IDE problems" is fruitless. 8366A does not control the IDE subsystem. That is 8233, and it is indeed faulty.

 

[AGodspeed]

1. Floppy Drive Corruption under Win2k. This issue was supposedly fixed with a BIOS or a driver update, I can't remember which. Whether it's ECS's fault or SiS's fault doesn't matter, it has to be one of them or both, since this issue was repeatable in many different situations. I'll dig up those K7S5A threads for you Pabster when I get the time.

A supposed issue which I never encountered, but which I do believe existed. A BIOS revision corrected the issue many months ago. Seeing as how none of the other 735-based mainboards have had such an "issue", there is zero evidence to suggest SiS 735 at fault.

If it's not SiS's fault, then it must be ECS, right? If this really was an issue that "existed" as you said, then who's fault is it if it's not SiS's fault? Isn't ECS responsible for the BIOS, and therefore wouldn't a new BIOS to fix this flaw be released by ECS themsleves, if indeed the SiS chipset itself had nothing to do with the floppy drive corruption problem? And therefore, wouldn't your comment that: ...not one person has yet provided concrete facts supporting their accusations of ECS. Be it quality control or otherwise. be incorrect?

 

[Pabster]

AGodSpeed wrote:

"If it's not SiS's fault, then it must be ECS, right? If this really was an issue that "existed" as you said, then who's fault is it if it's not SiS's fault? Isn't ECS responsible for the BIOS, and therefore wouldn't a new BIOS to fix this flaw be released by ECS themsleves, if indeed the SiS chipset itself had nothing to do with the floppy drive corruption problem? And therefore, wouldn't your comment that: ...not one person has yet provided concrete facts supporting their accusations of ECS. Be it quality control or otherwise. be incorrect?"

Obviously, someone was at fault. ECS designed the mainboard, so the blame would go there. But you've got to put things in to perspective; this was an issue which affected a very limited amount of Revision 1 mainboards, and an issue for which ECS has fully fixed the problem. How many mainboards have had several such "issues" and they remain unacknowledged, let alone solved.

You're obviously trying to "pin me" on a specific phrase. It's getting a little old. The purpose of this thread was not to "bash" VIA or anything like that. I reported a news item, and, as usual, it veered way off topic. All too frequent these days. :|

 

[nortexoid]

siva, u have the worst luck in the world...

i've built 3 without a single DOA or any issue...in fact, i haven't had any NOT boot the first start-up...no beep codes, not even a wrongly seated card...(i'm the master)

anyway, i wish ECS would've added a couple firewire ports to the k7s6a since it natively supports it...even if it costs a couple bucks more (though i suppose that's what they're staying away from...but then why woudl they add LAN??)..

to add to the earlier discussion....via is trash

 

[wyvrn]

<< Zero credible evidence has been presented to suggest ECS has any quality control issues with K7S5A. Zero. The mere fact that people receive DOA boards, have boards fail in short order, or experience "quirks" is no different than any other mainboard on the market. K7S5A is selling in record numbers, and with that, the number of "faulty" boards will be higher. Just think about it. If I sell 1,000,000 K7S5A's, am I not more likely to receive more of them back than if I had only sold 100,000? I don't understand the blatent and
asinine logic of certain forum members' in this respect. To suggest that ECS is guilty of poor quality control is but a cop out. I could start a few threads about the likes of ABIT, MSI, ASUS, etc. and declare each and every one of them guilty of poor quality control -- simply because I've had "bad boards" from each and every vendor.
>>

 

[human2k]

<< If you're not overclocking, and 2 DIMMs is enough, the K7S5A is the way to go. If you get a bum board, just RMA it and get one that works properly. Although the number of people with boards that come DOA is probably under 1%. >>




RMA is bullshit, takes forever to RMA and you have to pay shipping, why dont quality and control just do there folking job? When I buy hardware i want things that "work". I understand that u cant control DOA's but good vendors have fewer DOA's. Ive help built 4 SHuttle Ak31A systems so far in teh past, and the board is awesome for $80, this board rivals abit KR7, wtf am i talkin about, ITS BETTER! With Shuttles latest AK35 GTR it doesnt get any better, RAID, ata133, hardware sound, all for less than $130.