Confessions of a car salesman

[Zebo]

Carbonyl,
Yeah, most MSRP prices are 12-18% more than invoice. Sorry if I took that the wrong way, I just see so many people at Edmunds saying that you should take 2k off the invoice price and start negotiating from their. They think the invoice pricing is all a scam or something. It's actually a fairly transpearant system now that all the info is available on the internet...

I am looking for a new truck (have no idea why I botherd with the dealer) I went into fleet because those hawks out front make me unstable. Anyway, we built a dodge cummings just like I wanted and he printed up this sheet with the truck and all the options. It had two columns of prices. On one side was invoice one MSRP. He then said "I'll split the difference with you between what we paid and retail" .. So I said OK let me think about it. Went home logged on and carpoints invoice price was 4K less with the same options on the sheet from the dealer. So in effect he lied about "what we paid" and ruined my relationship with him. So yes they are a scam. I have no idea where they get thier "dealer invoice" from but it seems to be an arbitrary number which is above actual invoice, however they represent it as such. In other words you're not negoitiating on a level playing field from the beginning. IMO this is fraud.

 

[Spac3d]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Carbonyl,
Yeah, most MSRP prices are 12-18% more than invoice. Sorry if I took that the wrong way, I just see so many people at Edmunds saying that you should take 2k off the invoice price and start negotiating from their. They think the invoice pricing is all a scam or something. It's actually a fairly transpearant system now that all the info is available on the internet...

I am looking for a new truck (have no idea why I botherd with the dealer) I went into fleet because those hawks out front make me unstable. Anyway, we built a dodge cummings just like I wanted and he printed up this sheet with the truck and all the options. It had two columns of prices. On one side was invoice one MSRP. He then said "I'll split the difference with you between what we paid and retail" .. So I said OK let me think about it. Went home logged on and carpoints invoice price was 4K less with the same options on the sheet from the dealer. So in effect he lied about "what we paid" and ruined my relationship with him. So yes they are a scam. I have no idea where they get thier "dealer invoice" from but it seems to be an arbitrary number which is above actual invoice, however they represent it as such. In other words you're not negoitiating on a level playing field from the beginning. IMO this is fraud.

They tried to do that once to us at a Toyota dealership. I went armed with invoice pricing and they they showed us their "lists" and the "invoice"... they were showing us the invoice of a car with a different VIN:|

I inquired with a car broker when I was looking at the RSX and he did a horrible job with the pricing... but a car broker might be useful to someone so they can avoid this headache of car buying.

 

[Renob]

Here is what I do when I buy a car;

I research the car I want to buy I go drive it then leave.

I call the sales guy 3 days later I tell him I will give him $100 over invoice and what ever the lowest intrest rate is for the length of loan I want .

I tell him how much I will put down if any.

I tell him how much I want for my trade in then I tell him these numbers are NOT NEGOTIABLE not even by $1.

Then I tell him to fax me a credit app so they can run my credit which I know is good I tell him I will fax it back in the morning.

Then I tell him to call me if they want to do the deal by noon and no latter I tell him at noon I go to another dealership.

I have done this over 5 times and it has worked every time.

I never let them control the deal not even for a second.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Renob
Here is what I do when I buy a car;

I research the car I want to buy I go drive it then leave.

I call the sales guy 3 days later I tell him I will give him $100 over invoice and what ever the lowest intrest rate is for the length of loan I want is.

I tell him how much I will put down if any.

I tell him how much I want for my trade in then I tell him these numbers are NOT NEGOTIABLE not even by $1.

Then I tell him to fax me a credit app so they can run my credit which I know is good I tell him I will fax it back in the morning.

Then I tell him to call me if they want to do the deal by noon and no latter I tell him at noon I go to another dealership.

I have done this over 5 times and it has worked every time.

I never let them control the deal not even for a second.

Renobob = stud

 

[Renob]

Renobob = stud

Thanks big guy.

I even do it for friends and family.

I love messing with those guys.

 

[Zebo]

Well I was serious. I just can't believe the attitude of the car customers these days. They seem to be the ones working to please the dealer not the otherway around.

 

[gregshin]

this thread was not to insult car salesman...they are people like you and me trying to earn a buck...but i wanted to post this after car shopping this weekend. Some of the dealers were nice and some were shady. Some twisted my words and some even tried to make me feel guilty of the car that i chose. In the end i played hard ball and got a great a deal on an Acura 3.2 CL 2003

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Spac3d

That is a good point. A lot of people are unaware that buying at the end of the month is usually a win-win situitation for everyone. Dealers get rid of their older cars sitting on the lot, salesmen can boost sales, and it usually ends up being a better deal for the consumer. Unfortunately our car lease is up on December 4th. Damnit.

Oh, exactly! And buying during crappy weather is another good way to get a better discount. Many dealerships want units out the door, regardless of profit margin, as they need to hit unit goals. End of the month and bad weather = good deal for customer

Would you think a new Honda Odyssey EX would go out the door at invoice from a dealership that doesn't have the volume as another one in town? Did for one of my customers Of course, he was still pitching a fit about the price

There's just no pleasing some people.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Renob
Here is what I do when I buy a car;

I research the car I want to buy I go drive it then leave.

I call the sales guy 3 days later I tell him I will give him $100 over invoice and what ever the lowest intrest rate is for the length of loan I want .

I tell him how much I will put down if any.

I tell him how much I want for my trade in then I tell him these numbers are NOT NEGOTIABLE not even by $1.

Then I tell him to fax me a credit app so they can run my credit which I know is good I tell him I will fax it back in the morning.

Then I tell him to call me if they want to do the deal by noon and no latter I tell him at noon I go to another dealership.

I have done this over 5 times and it has worked every time.

I never let them control the deal not even for a second.

It's a bit of work but, yes, that's the best way to approach it from a customer standpoint.

Now, at the dealership where I worked, if someone called up on the phone and wanted a price on a car, I'd quote them MSRP. If they said they wanted my 'bottom-dollar' price I'd say, "well, sir, it's not my car to sell and I can't sell you a car over the phone. Come on in this evening and I will go to work for you and try to get to agreeable terms. After all, if you paid too much would you come back and see me or send business my way? I didn't think so. Now, what time is good for you? 7pm? 8pm?"

Usually that would work but sometimes it would result in a hangup or the customer getting irate saying dealership so-and-so offered me this and blah blah and I'd say, "Well, you didn't buy from them, though, did you? That means the salesperson just didn't do his job and left you feeling uneasy, eh?".

Now, there are dealers who sell based on volume and will willingly quote a price over the phone but where I worked, the volume wasn't that great and it's stupid to make it easier for someone to buy a car somewhere else by giving them a price only to have them shop it around and beat it by $50. My time is more valuable than that as I didn't get paid unless I sold a car (well, once I was off the 3-month guaranteed salary, that is).

 

[Conky]

I actually sold cars for a few years and became a so-called "closer".

It's a job like any other except that the pressure to sell is very intense. I don't buy a lot of what this "undercover car salesman" says. He says he only sold five cars in one month. I sold 3 my first day at the last dealership I worked at. Guys who sold less than 10 a month were shown the exit.

I haven't professionally sold cars for years and now work in an office making half what I used to which is still a comfortable living and a lot less stressful. The hate you deal with is accurate although you meet some great people too.

I should write a book telling people how to buy cars from the point of view of a real salesman who took pride in being the top earner where ever he worked.

 

[dquan97]

great article! just finished reading...

 

[Winchester]

I knew some of the "tricks" of the trade when I went into buy a 2003 Chevrolet in Dec. The sticker price was $23,500. I got them down to $14,700, not including taxes, ($15,500 w/TTL) That does however include a $2000 trade in value.

$15,500 for a 2003 Chevrolet 1500 Single Cab Auto Silverado.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: Winchester
I knew some of the "tricks" of the trade when I went into buy a 2003 Chevrolet in Dec. The sticker price was $23,500. I got them down to $14,700, not including taxes, ($15,500 w/TTL) That does however include a $2000 trade in value.

$15,500 for a 2003 Chevrolet 1500 Single Cab Auto Silverado.

So in other words you paid $15,500 + a $2,000 trade-in for a $13,000 truck? Sounds like you had a good salesman. A good salesman will make you feel like you got a good deal. And your trade was probably worth a lot more too. We stole trade-ins like a crackhead steals baking soda.

I will never forget selling a Z-28 Camaro for $4,000 over list price. I bet that guy is still grinning too.

I really should write that book.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: kleinesarschloch
excellent read. gives a lot of insight into the car sales mafia err... i mean industry.

 

[Winchester]

No the trucks sticker value was $23,500 not $13,000. I paid $15,500 incl TTL, out the door for it.

23,500 Sticker
- 2,000 Trade in (POS) Which Kelly Blue Book had even a lower value for it, and it had tons of work (body especially) needed on it.
- 7,000 Bargaining
= 14,500

+ 1000 TTL
=15,500 Out the door

The salesman (rookie, first sale maybe even) screwed up and said yes to my price that I told him without authorization or something. So the manager came out and gave it to us for a price even BELOW what we offered to pay because the salesman had screwed up. I did all the bargaining as my dad sat there and he about pissed his pants with the price they gave me.

How can that NOT be a good deal?