Confederate/Rebel flag

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Alkaline5
I don't see it flown nearly as much now as I used to growing up (lived my whole life just outside of Atlanta). For most people I think it really was largely about Southern Pride, but now out of respect for others it's pretty much just rednecks that fly it (and it's anybody's guess what they're thinking).

More and more I'm seeing the South Carolina state flag being flown everywhere. It seems to be the PC way of showing that you're proud to be from the South.

What we should do is start flying the original Stars and Bars. Given the level of history education in the US today few people would actually recognize it as anything to work themselves up about.

 

[txrandom]

It represents rednecks and/or douchebags. I was born and raised in Texas, and I hate when people use the confederate flag.

 

[Wheezer]

so if the confederate flag = racism....and we know that many slaves were sold into slavery by their own countrymen in Africa does that also mean that the flags of the countries of Africa also represent racism when you see them?

Does the British flag represent the the oppression of India?...I mean come on, they were a tyranny for hundreds of years...they oppressed many countries and people.

The swastika when first seen conjures up thoughts of Nazi Germany....but there is more to the symbol that that.

I would say that the people who ONLY take from the Confederate flag that it means racism and slavery are just as closed mined about it as those they say it represents.

 

[preslove]

Symbols mean different things to different people at different times. A civil war re-enactor who has a family history in their southern area they wish to respect is not racist. A young kid who grew up in the pacific north west and wants to rebel? Probably a racist.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
In american popular culture it represents slavery. Plain and simple. You can argue about what it means to you as an individual but in general it is a symbol of slavery and repression.

That's laughably absurd. It symbolizes being a backwards hick who's going for the "rebel" image to be cool.

I doubt there are very many people in the country who see a confederate flag on a truck and immediately think "slavery." More like "hillbillie pride." There might be an element of racism in there too, but racism and slavery aren't exactly the same thing.

 

[jandrews]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
In american popular culture it represents slavery. Plain and simple. You can argue about what it means to you as an individual but in general it is a symbol of slavery and repression.

That's laughably absurd. It symbolizes being a backwards hick who's going for the "rebel" image to be cool.

I doubt there are very many people in the country who see a confederate flag on a truck and immediately think "slavery." More like "hillbillie pride." There might be an element of racism in there too, but racism and slavery aren't exactly the same thing.

Really? The first thing I ever think is racism or slavery especially if i am with a black person at the time when i see it, very akward.

 

[jandrews]

Originally posted by: Alkaline5
I don't see it flown nearly as much now as I used to growing up (lived my whole life just outside of Atlanta). For most people I think it really was largely about Southern Pride, but now out of respect for others it's pretty much just rednecks that fly it (and it's anybody's guess what they're thinking).

More and more I'm seeing the South Carolina state flag being flown everywhere. It seems to be the PC way of showing that you're proud to be from the South.

Originally posted by: Aikouka
If you want pride, why not just fly an American flag?

That would be like a football fanatic displaying the NFL logo instead of their team's logo. They might love football in general, but it's the team logo that tells you why.

I disagree, the southern flag would be like having an NFC/AFC flag instead of a NFL logo flag, still pretty weird with that analogy.

 

[krunchykrome]

redneck hillbilly

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: nkgreen
Anyone who thinks the Confederate battle flag is a symbol of slavery and racism is just as ignorant as those who fly it for that reason.

What are you talking about? The origination of the flag's meaning may have been different but obviously the current beliefs about it on a mass scale are that it's a symbol of racism. Cultural icons as controversial as the Confederate flag are defined by what the mass believes them to mean. The swastika is a perfect example of this. Very rarely are you going to have Westerners identifying the swastika as a sign of good will. I mean, come on. Are you ignorant for associating the swastika with racism because the roots of the symbol aren't?

Apparently you don't know the current beliefs on it if you think that it's a symbol of racism. Just because everyone you know thinks it's a symbol of racism doesn't mean that some don't. That's like saying some Indian priest living in the jungle can't use a swastika because "OMG its offensive to j00s!"

Where are you from, btw?

I'm not saying some people don't believe it means racism but by waving a symbol that's currently believed to be a sign of racism, you're either dense or obtuse in not knowing that most people will take offense to the inherent message it currently portrays. It may have once had a different meaning that some hold onto to this day but it does not mean the mass believes it.

In response to your example, how would you feel if a German was waving around a swastika versus an Indian?

To your last question, I've lived in many places throughout my life.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: jandrews
I always considered southern pride and racism kind of mutually...

Why? You think most southerners are proud of slavery?

I love how everyone rags on the South as being largely racist, implying that the rest of the US is a bastion of enlightenment where every ethnic group and racial group live in complete harmony. Give me a fvcking break. You want to know the real reason the south gets the bad rap on the whole?

http://content.answers.com/mai...2000_black_density.png

In the south, racism isn't hidden like it is in much of the US. Folks generally don't have the "luxury" (put in quotes for a reason) of living in a county or state that is 90% white, like the rest of the US. Racism can be, and is, equally has bad or worse in much of the the US, there just aren't the concentrations of black people around to be racist towards.

Oh, don't you worry. We on the West get our fair share of Hispanic haters and maybe up North they hate Canadians.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
nothing to be proud of.
it was racism, continuation of slavery. sure the north did the right thing for the wrong reason but that doesn't make the souths idiocy something to be proud of.

you might as well pretend the swastika is just a symbol of german national pride.

A swastika is actually a symbol of good luck. It's also thought to have warded off evil or offer a protection.

wear it on your shirt and good luck explaining it away with that lol

 

[Alkaline5]

Originally posted by: jandrews

Originally posted by: Alkaline5
I don't see it flown nearly as much now as I used to growing up (lived my whole life just outside of Atlanta). For most people I think it really was largely about Southern Pride, but now out of respect for others it's pretty much just rednecks that fly it (and it's anybody's guess what they're thinking).

More and more I'm seeing the South Carolina state flag being flown everywhere. It seems to be the PC way of showing that you're proud to be from the South.

Originally posted by: Aikouka
If you want pride, why not just fly an American flag?

That would be like a football fanatic displaying the NFL logo instead of their team's logo. They might love football in general, but it's the team logo that tells you why.

I disagree, the southern flag would be like having an NFC/AFC flag instead of a NFL logo flag, still pretty weird with that analogy.

Yeah, wierd analogy. I got my season tickets today, so football was just the first thing I thought about that could be easily related.

Anyway, are you saying that a specific team would be more like a state and a Conference would be like a geographic region? I guess it's all in your personal perception. People are generally "loyal" to teams and not conferences, and while I am a "Georgian" and like living here that's not neccesarily the word I would use as best identifying my deepest loyalties. I would probably identify myself as primarily an "American" and "Southerner" (who happens to be from Georgia). But again, that's just me and my perception.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

NASCAR

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: nkgreen
Anyone who thinks the Confederate battle flag is a symbol of slavery and racism is just as ignorant as those who fly it for that reason.

What are you talking about? The origination of the flag's meaning may have been different but obviously the current beliefs about it on a mass scale are that it's a symbol of racism. Cultural icons as controversial as the Confederate flag are defined by what the mass believes them to mean. The swastika is a perfect example of this. Very rarely are you going to have Westerners identifying the swastika as a sign of good will. I mean, come on. Are you ignorant for associating the swastika with racism because the roots of the symbol aren't?

Apparently you don't know the current beliefs on it if you think that it's a symbol of racism. Just because everyone you know thinks it's a symbol of racism doesn't mean that some don't. That's like saying some Indian priest living in the jungle can't use a swastika because "OMG its offensive to j00s!"

Where are you from, btw?

I'm not saying some people don't believe it means racism but by waving a symbol that's currently believed to be a sign of racism, you're either dense or obtuse in not knowing that most people will take offense to the inherent message it currently portrays. It may have once had a different meaning that some hold onto to this day but it does not mean the mass believes it.

In response to your example, how would you feel if a German was waving around a swastika versus an Indian?

To your last question, I've lived in many places throughout my life.

I for one don't where or display something just to appease the masses. If someone doesn't like the way I do something, they can ask me and I will tell them. If not, they can fuck off. But that doesn't mean I would wear a Confederate flag walking down a street in Compton. But I my reason would not be because I think it's racist, but rather the fear of getting shot.

As to the German waving a swastika, I would feel the same if a person from MA was waving a Confederate flag. They are misrepresenting it.

And this whole argument is stupid as hell. What's the point of even arguing what it means? It's not like you can ban it if you don't like it, regardless of what it means or what the masses think it means.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

I for one don't where or display something just to appease the masses. If someone doesn't like the way I do something, they can ask me and I will tell them. If not, they can fuck off. But that doesn't mean I would wear a Confederate flag walking down a street in Compton. But I my reason would not be because I think it's racist, but rather the fear of getting shot.

As to the German waving a swastika, I would feel the same if a person from MA was waving a Confederate flag. They are misrepresenting it.

And this whole argument is stupid as hell. What's the point of even arguing what it means? It's not like you can ban it if you don't like it, regardless of what it means or what the masses think it means.

that didn't make sense really.

I live in Florida...south florida. We have a lot of proud rednecks here. They like being called a redneck as well.

Now in regards to the rebel flag, you really can't say what it represents et al...as it means different things to everyone.

To some it's about the South. They are proud to be here...and they love america.

To some it's about the 'olde south' when minorities 'knew' their place in life. Some of these people will defend that they are not racist "'cause I am 'friends' with quite a few of them coloreds"

To some it's about white supremacy.

To others it's just a flag they like and don't really know about it.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Only time i've seen it it has been worn by skinheads and in the windows of neo nazis, usually next to the red white and black swaztika flag.

In England it's most certainly a symbol for racism/neo nazism, but then again many Americans seem to be neo nazis who hate people just because they are mexican so maybe i'ts going to becaome a general decoration.


If you're wondering, yes, i despise both them and you.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Only time i've seen it it has been worn by skinheads and in the windows of neo nazis, usually next to the red white and black swaztika flag.

In England it's most certainly a symbol for racism/neo nazism, but then again many Americans seem to be neo nazis who hate people just because they are mexican so maybe i'ts going to becaome a general decoration.


If you're wondering, yes, i despise both them and you.

And yet for some reason we broke away from the motherland....

 

[Maximilian]

Its in starcraft! Starcraft isnt racist

 

[miketheidiot]

it symbolizes stupidity

 

[StageLeft]

Mostly it's southern pride. I'd recreate this thread and have people from the south answer it and then those from the north, who have no idea about the south at all, answer it (wrongly).

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: So
Edit, and on top of that, the southern flag is a symbol of treason in the name of an immoral cause. The treason alone should be enough to condemn it.

Q F T

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Only time i've seen it it has been worn by skinheads and in the windows of neo nazis, usually next to the red white and black swaztika flag.

In England it's most certainly a symbol for racism/neo nazism, but then again many Americans seem to be neo nazis who hate people just because they are mexican so maybe i'ts going to becaome a general decoration.


If you're wondering, yes, i despise both them and you.

No wonder the rest of Europe hates it when Ryanair opens a new route to their city...

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: nkgreen
Anyone who thinks the Confederate battle flag is a symbol of slavery and racism is just as ignorant as those who fly it for that reason.

The confederate battle flag existed because the southern aristocracy committed treason because the northerners finally managed to break their 70 year lock on power. They seceded and took up the states rights horsecrap only to justify their oppression.

 

[Quasmo]

Originally posted by: newnameman
States' rights.

Agreed, the Civil had nothing to with slavery until later in the war.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Quasmo

Originally posted by: newnameman
States' rights.

Agreed, the Civil had nothing to with slavery until later in the war.

maybe not for the north but it did for the south.