Computers can see each other, but...

[dajo]

I have three computers connected via a LinkSys 4 port router sharing a DSL connection. Let's call them c1, c2, and c3.

Both c1 and c2 can access resources on c3. This morning c1 and c2 could see each other but could not access each other's resources. I added NetBeui to both c1 and c2 to see if that was the problem, and now c2 can access c1's resources but c1 still can't access c2's resources.

From c1 I can "find" c2, and all computers show in network neighborhood (same workgroup), but if I try to open c2 from c1 I get an "inaccessible" message.

I have DHCP enabled in the router, all computers have "File and printer sharing" enabled, and the DSL performance on each of the three computers is excellent.

Any ideas?

 

[Zipperhead]

you cant use netbui with a router.netbui is not routable.use tcp/ip.also did you share the drives out on all machines?

 

[Zipperhead]

this was a double post

 

[dajo]

Well, I only had TCP/IP until this morning, then I tried NetBeui. All the drives are shared, but I'm at work now so I'll check again when I get home.

This happened once before after I powered everything down because there was an electrical storm in my area and I wanted to make sure my systems didn't get zapped. I had a rough time getting everything up and "shareable", and, again, it was these two machines. That time, I fixed it by rebooting everything several times.

These two computers somehow don't talk well.

I'll check the sharing when I get home.

 

[Dyngoe]

Hi,
I hope I can help. I've had a few wierd problems with LANs and Anandtech users have always been able to help me, I hope I can return the favor. Before I give advice, I would like to know more about your systems. What OS is running on each system? Have you tried pinging each computer?(Probably will be possible since they are visible in Network Neighborhood) Can you ping computer names as well as computer addresses? Give me a better visual of what is happening and how it is setup, and I'll be glad to give my $.02
As always,
D

 

[dajo]

Well, I am totally perplexed at this point. Check this out:

I attached an older drive to this system to format it in preparation for a new system I'm building. After reformatting it, I booted to that drive via Command Prompt and installed Win 98. It found the NIC and installed it without prompting me and guess what? When it came up I could browse the machine that I couldn't read with the "normal" boot disk, and it could read this machine. Weird, no? I tried to match all the network settings by booting to one disk, then the other then finally said forget it and installed a different NIC. Same thing is happening!

I get the message:

\\Angela is not accessible
The specified computer did not receive your request. Try again later.

Angela is my wife and that's her machine. All computers involved have Win98 installed. All belong to the same workgroup (I can sell all of them).

Why does booting to that second drive allow this machine to browse the "Angela" machine, and for it to browse this machine?

Finally, I reinstalled Windows 98 on this drive, but still cannot share resources between this computer and the Angela machine.

Have spent 5 hours straight on this and gotten no where except for the second drive that, for some reason, can share resources.

PS
I can ping between the machines, and SoftSandra successively completes a network test on the remote machine that I cannot browse.

I am beginning to wonder if it isn't the Dlink DFE-530tx+ conflicting with the router. I read that the DFE-530 was on a conflict list for the LinkSys router, but that the DFE-530tx+ was okay. One thing that I have noticed is that while the Dlink scored higher on SoftSandra, the Kingston KNE111TX, which came with the DSL package, is definately faster in browsing the net.

 

Ditch DHCP and use a 10.10.10.x subnet.
I had really weird problems with 2k and the 192.168 or 169.254 subnets they would be default use.

 

[StevenTodd]

I too am using a Linksys 4 port Cable router and am having worse problems. The PC's all using DHCP from the router. All grab DNS from my ISP. All can reach the internet for browsing just fine. But Network Neighborhood will NOT show the others. All can be PINGed. What gives? I tried playing around with the routing tables in the router with no progress. I changed them back to original settings.

It may not be the Linksys and I put all boxes on a simple 5 port hub and the same problem exists.

 

[dajo]

Well, I assigned static ips in my system but I get the same thing - computer "Angela" cannot browse this computer, and this computer cannot browse it. I also changed the workgroup, but it didn't help.

What's weird is that, throughout all of this, the third computer remains the only one which can browse, and be browsed by, all machines.

Also strange is the fact that when I boot to the newly attached disk I can browse the Angela machine and it can browse me. I think this is due to the fact that I assigned a different name to the machine during Win98 installation. When I looked at the DHCP tables, before removing DCHP from the router, it showed a new IP incremented address.

Somehow these two problematic machines became screwed up, and I believe that router is "remembering" this conflict somewhere - I say this because I used the same IP addresses that the router was assigning (100, 101).

Tonight I'll try either resetting the configuration on the router, re-flashing the firmware, or using a different IP range.

I bet that will fix it.

Thanks for your interest in this post. I'll let you know what happens. While we have the router to share DSL, we also have it to enjoy a home network. The network is not of much use if we can share resources.

 

[Santa]

Some things to try. Verify that The browse master in File and Print Sharing is set on automatic for all machines or on the machine that you usually will always have up and running first before any others. This is a must to keep a list of computers on the network.

Can you access the shares when you try Start --> Run --> \\<Angela's IP Not Name here>

If so then you are having a Resolution problem

Another thing to try is to make sure when you do this type of trouble shooting you check and restart each PC since it is a peer-to-peer it is hard to tell (unless you force one PC to be it via the Browse Master setting) which PC is the browse master and whether it is working correctly.

I wouldn't assume it is the Router right away unless you can switch ports and it works without a problem. (another thing to try switch to a known working port)

Another thing to try is to uninstall and reinstall the TCP/IP protocals and or the entire list of protocals on the affected machines. Sometimes the protocols themselves get messed up and need to be reinstalled.

Try those and tell me how it goes.

 

[StevenTodd]

I have been able to not only do START/RUN/\\192.168.1.101
but also map a drive to the server name.
But browsing with &quot;my network places aka Network neighborhood still does not show the server, just myself.
Cant join a domain server if I cant browse it.

Any ideas?

 

[dajo]

Well, I fixed it - sort of.

I did two things at the same time, but I really think it was the second thing. I removed all network objects from the Network Neighborhood properties. I also applied registry fix from speedguide.net which supposedly restores all the default settings for networking. I had tweaked the registry a lot to try to optimize my DSL, so I think that is where the problem, or a least part of it, resided.

But now I have a new problem - when I click on the shared C drive from this machine to machine &quot;Angela&quot; it takes an extremely long time to display the contents and I only see the root drive files, i.e., no subfolders appear. I've tried un-sharing, rebooting, and re-sharing but I get the same thing. On the other hand, the &quot;Angela&quot; machine can now browse this one easily and quickly.

The saga continues...

Any ideas about this situation?

Questions:
1) what protocols do I need?
2) what default protocol should I use? (currently it is TCP/IP)
3) what Clients do I need?
4) what should I be logging onto, Client for MS Networks, MS Family logon, or Windows?

Anybody know of a way to start out with a &quot;blank&quot; registry? Boot to Safe Mode Command Prompt, delete system.dat and re-install Windows? Yeah, I know, pretty messy, but I may have to do something like this to fix everything and I don't really want to reformat the disk.

Thanks again for your help. I wouldn't even be this far without it!

 

[Santa]

Having fun with the registry I see hehe

No idea what that registry patch you just installed did but most Registry Speed tweaks do MTU changes nothing else. Granted MTU could have an adverse affect on Network browsing but it is mostly for Web and Internet Latancy.

I would reinstall the problematic machine and Make sure you configure the Workgroups the same and Install Services (client for microsoft networking, File and print sharing) and install TCP/IP protocal.

This should be all you need for simple peer-to-peer

Or what you could do is install IPX/SPX on all clients and have that be your peer-to-peer networking. This could be something you might want to do for your local browsing and keep TCP/IP on the Internet Adapter.

 

[dajo]

&quot;reinstall the problematic machine&quot;

Okay, but how do you mean? I've already re-installed Windows once, but that didn't do it.

Please give suggestions.

I don't mind doing the work, and I'm willing to copy all my stuff to another machine, re-format, re-instal windows, re-install all applications, and copy my stuff back, in order to have a robust network, but I'm hoping to find an easier way.

 

[Eug]

<< All can reach the internet for browsing just fine. But Network Neighborhood will NOT show the others. All can be PINGed. >>

I'm convinced that Windows does something wonky with TCP/IP. My only solution was to reinstall the OS before I could get the network to work properly with TCP/IP. NetBeui worked fine however.


<< you cant use netbui with a router >>

My above setup is with a Linksys home gateway/router.

BTW, I lugged my friend's Windows 98 PC to my place and plugged it into the router. It saw my main desktop (Win 2000) fine, but when I tried to access it I got a password dialogue box. WTF? I had set no passwords and have set shares open to everyone. I note that my computers at home are all set up for administrator access and her's was logged on to herself, but should that make any difference?

Also, in Windows 98, how to I shut off the logon dialogue box at bootup? Windows Family Logon doesn't seem to be an option - do I install that?

 

[Santa]

Can you give me a diagram of what you have done so far?

like..

C1 Orginal had a problem
C1 reinstalled OS
C1 Currently freshly installed without any registry tweaks

C2 Orginally had a problem
C2 didnt change so far

C3 Didn't really have a problem left alone

You lost me in all of what you are doing and have done so far and on which computer you have done it on.

 

[sadb0i]

eug
when is prompts you at the password
type in
computer\user ....if there is no password set then dont put one...try that...

 

[sadb0i]

do u have all your computers on win98?

 

[dajo]

History:

1) noticed that c1 and c2 could not browse each other but c3 could browse, and be browsed, by all
2) eventually... applied a &quot;restore registry to default network settings patch&quot; to c1
3) c2 can now browse c1 robustly, but when c1 browses c2 it takes forever to connect and only the root files for the c:\ drive on c2 are visible, as in no sub-folders appear.

I am not so sure that the problem at this point isn't one of protocol conflicts. The machines can browse each other. When I installed Windows on a second drive that I added to c1 in prep for moving to a new system, I noticed that it could easily browse c2 unlike the system disk that normal resides on c1. This is what lead me to apply the regristry undo patch as I thought it must be some of the registry tweaks I had done on the usual system disk for c1. Re-installing Windows, as well as re-installing all protocols did not fix it, but the registry undo patch did.

However, when I boot to that new disk on c1 now (the one which never had any problems seeing c2) it, too, takes a long time to connect whereas before it did not. Sometimes it sees sub-folders off the root of c2, sometimes it doesn't. That's why I think the orginal problem has most likely been solved.

And so, I'm wondering if it isn't some type of protocols/clients conflict at work now.

All systems are Win98 - DSL works great - c3 has never had a problem browsing, and being browsed by c1 and c2 (problem is between c1 and c2 and occurs when browsing from c1 to c2 - browsing from c2 to c1 is fine).




<< when is prompts you at the password type in computer\user >>


I don't understand. Do you mean the actual name of the computer as it would be seen in Net Neighborhood?

 

[Eug]

<< I don't understand. Do you mean the actual name of the computer as it would be seen in Net Neighborhood? >>

He's talking to me I believe, but I don't quite understand either. Do you mean on bootup for the logon or when I try to access the shared drive?

 

[Santa]

try doing a \\<C2 IP> from the run window on C1

If this brings up everything fine then we are beginning to narrow down the problem.

So I take it that C1's main Master Drive on the IDE1 has been reformated with Win98 and then you applied the Speed MTU patch and then tried to run the undo patch? Which at this point it is a freshly installed win98 that has been patched and unpatched?

If so please reinstall and do not install any patches. I highly recommend investing in Imaging software for troubleshooting helps out to image something make some registry/application changes and then restore if something goes wrong without reinstalling everything.

Also have you tried differnt ports on the router? Just to verify that it is not the port causing problems. also try switching wires out to make sure its not the wires.

 

[sadb0i]

ya was talkin to EUG
when trying to access your comp(win2k)i assume
all this is done on friends computer
you type in your computer name...then your user name...

ex:
computer name: comp1 ....user: timmy

comp1\timmy

if no password..then dont put a password
that should connect you...so u dont have to do this again everytime...map the shared drives to your comp...that way...you wont have to go looking for them...but you will have to keep typing the login and everytime..

 

[dajo]

Well, I finally fixed it. Turns out the machine that I was having trouble reading (c2) was the one with the problem, not the one that was having trouble reading it (c1). I found out when I got a chance to play with the third machine (hard to get to - my 15 year old step son's machine in his room). It had trouble reading c2 also, so...

Re-installing Windows to that machine fixed the problem and everything is fine.

Guess you can never under-estimate the power of a Windows re-install.

Thanks for your help!