Computer to Receiver

[Patrick Wolf]

Whether it's onboard or an add-in card, if you connect your computer to an AV receiver via the receiver's multichannel inputs (or an S/PDIF connection) do you get the same sound quality reguardless; because your receiver is the finally destination where the sound is processed?

Does it make a difference if you use an analogue vs. a digital (optical/coaxial) connection to the receiver?

 

[PurdueRy]

If you connect via analog, your receiver's D->A converters and preamp circuitry will not be used. In place of that your sound card is repsonsible for this conversion. Conversely, if you use a digital connection, your sound card does very little and your receiver does the D->A conversion, preamp and eventual amplifying.

Of course there is the added benefit that connecting via a digital connection will only get you surround sound out of pre-encoded sources. This mainly means DVDs/movies encoded with surround sound. A way around this is Dolby digital live or DTS connect but that introduces more compression into this comparison.

 

[sswingle]

A coaxial audio connection is still digital. (I assume you are referring to the single RCA plug, usually orange colored)

 

[Noubourne]

sswingle is right. Actually, the "D" in S/PDIF stands for "digital". Optical or coaxial are win. Analog (L/R RCA plugs) is where you would start to fail. Go with either the coaxial or the S/PDIF connector. Monoprice is a great place for unique cables like this. I got a 25ft Optical from them to hook mine up, which was handy before I got my Media Center Extender rocking.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: sswingle
A coaxial audio connection is still digital. (I assume you are referring to the single RCA plug, usually orange colored)

He never said otherwise...

Originally posted by: Noubourne
sswingle is right. Actually, the "D" in S/PDIF stands for "digital". Optical or coaxial are win. Analog (L/R RCA plugs) is where you would start to fail. Go with either the coaxial or the S/PDIF connector. Monoprice is a great place for unique cables like this. I got a 25ft Optical from them to hook mine up, which was handy before I got my Media Center Extender rocking.

saying an analog connection is "fail" is extremely short-sighted...

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: Patrick Wolf
Does it make a difference if you use an analogue vs. a digital (optical/coaxial) connection to the receiver?

It really starts to matter with surround sound and Dolby Digital/DTS. For two channel stereo I doubt many people could tell the difference blindfolded.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: Patrick Wolf
Does it make a difference if you use an analogue vs. a digital (optical/coaxial) connection to the receiver?

It really starts to matter with surround sound and Dolby Digital/DTS. For two channel stereo I doubt many people could tell the difference blindfolded.

Analog connections are capable of DD/DTS...

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: Patrick Wolf
Does it make a difference if you use an analogue vs. a digital (optical/coaxial) connection to the receiver?

It really starts to matter with surround sound and Dolby Digital/DTS. For two channel stereo I doubt many people could tell the difference blindfolded.

Analog connections are capable of DD/DTS...

Capable of better signals, too.

Of course, analog has noise and interference issues.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: Patrick Wolf
Does it make a difference if you use an analogue vs. a digital (optical/coaxial) connection to the receiver?

It really starts to matter with surround sound and Dolby Digital/DTS. For two channel stereo I doubt many people could tell the difference blindfolded.

Analog connections are capable of DD/DTS...

Capable of better signals, too.

Of course, analog has noise and interference issues.

I think the noise issue is overblown considering most RCA cables have four layers of shielding.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

My reason for asking this question is that when I do get my AV receiver I need to connect my computer to it and be able to get true surround sound from games (will use PS3 for movies). I have the GA-EP45-UD3R mobo which has Intel HD audio as well as analog, optical, & coaxial outputs. Additionally, I have the SB X-Fi XtremeMusic which only has analog outputs.

My receiver will most likely have multi-channel (RCA) inputs, coaxial, & optical inputs so I'll have plenty of options to get the best sound from my PC.

As I understand it:
1st, games mainly use EAX for surround sound which can't be transferred through a digital connection unless I have DD Live or DTS Connect to encode the data and send it to the receiver for decoding.

2nd, EAX (processed by computer hardware first) can be transferred to the receiver via multi-channel analog connection for true surround.

I can only get true surround from EAX through my XtremeMusic via analog connection unless I buy creative's Digital I/O Module AND the DD Live and DTS Connect Pack. Then, theoretically, I could send encoded EAX data to the receiver for decoding. Pretty damn complicated if you ask me.

As for my onboard audio; don't know if you can get DD Live or DTS Connect for it. Nor do I know if it can even process EAX (probably can't).

NOW, take the X-Fi Titanium; analog, optical, DD Live, EAX 5.0, everything you'd need. But, a bit spendy. Course I could eBay my XtremeMusic then.

Phew, so many options. That's why the question boils down to sound quality.

If my onboard is capable of EAX or DD Live/DTS Connect that would be nice, but would the sound quality be worse than an X-Fi card if connected to a receiver? Too many ?'s with the onboard; probably best to just forget it.

The best question would be: when connecting to a receiver. is the X-Fi Titanium (or similar card) going to provide better SQ over the XtremeMusic? And would a digital connection (using DD Live/DTS Connect) give better sound than multi-channel analog? Does it even matter as it would be too difficult to notice a difference anyway?

My brain hurts.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Patrick Wolf
My reason for asking this question is that when I do get my AV receiver I need to connect my computer to it and be able to get true surround sound from games (will use PS3 for movies). I have the GA-EP45-UD3R mobo which has Intel HD audio as well as analog, optical, & coaxial outputs. Additionally, I have the SB X-Fi XtremeMusic which only has analog outputs.

My receiver will most likely have multi-channel (RCA) inputs, coaxial, & optical inputs so I'll have plenty of options to get the best sound from my PC.

As I understand it:
1st, games mainly use EAX for surround sound which can't be transferred through a digital connection unless I have DD Live or DTS Connect to encode the data and send it to the receiver for decoding.

2nd, EAX (processed by computer hardware first) can be transferred to the receiver via multi-channel analog connection for true surround.

I can only get true surround from EAX through my XtremeMusic via analog connection unless I buy creative's Digital I/O Module AND the DD Live and DTS Connect Pack. Then, theoretically, I could send encoded EAX data to the receiver for decoding. Pretty damn complicated if you ask me.

As for my onboard audio; don't know if you can get DD Live or DTS Connect for it. Nor do I know if it can even process EAX (probably can't).

NOW, take the X-Fi Titanium; analog, optical, DD Live, EAX 5.0, everything you'd need. But, a bit spendy. Course I could eBay my XtremeMusic then.

Phew, so many options. That's why the question boils down to sound quality.

If my onboard is capable of EAX or DD Live/DTS Connect that would be nice, but would the sound quality be worse than an X-Fi card if connected to a receiver? Too many ?'s with the onboard; probably best to just forget it.

The best question would be: when connecting to a receiver. is the X-Fi Titanium (or similar card) going to provide better SQ over the XtremeMusic? And would a digital connection (using DD Live/DTS Connect) give better sound than multi-channel analog? Does it even matter as it would be too difficult to notice a difference anyway?

My brain hurts.

You don't need the digital I/O module. That gives you full size connections but you can accomplish the same thing with a 3.5mm to RCA converter.

If you have a long run to make to your receiver, use DDL from the X-fi. It'll just be easier and cheaper. If you don't have much of a run, either is available but the DDL option is still more convenient. You'll lose some sound quality but not enough to notice in most cases.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
You don't need the digital I/O module. That gives you full size connections but you can accomplish the same thing with a 3.5mm to RCA converter.

If you have a long run to make to your receiver, use DDL from the X-fi. It'll just be easier and cheaper. If you don't have much of a run, either is available but the DDL option is still more convenient. You'll lose some sound quality but not enough to notice in most cases.

I know I can just use a few 3.5mm to RCA converters, but the XtremeMusic doesn't have any optical connections, the Digital I/O Module adds that option so you can use DDL (sold seperately).

But the question still remains, will a better sound card give noticeably better quality when connected to an AV receiver (assuming the receiver and speakers are high-end)?

 

[XMan]

Multi-channel analog in is honestly the best way to go, especially if you're going to be watching Blu-Rays. Optical or coaxial S/PDIF do not have the bandwidth to carry HD audio. PC HDMI solutions are somewhat crippled right now so analog is it.

 

[Modelworks]

You don't have to have DDL. You just need a card that can do PCM over Coax/optical. Dolby is just a brand name with specific specs. 5.1 pcm is decodable by just about every receiver with coax/optical. Games just output 5.1 not the dolby branded version.
http://budgetgamer.files.wordp...1-rca-to-headphone.jpg


Just plug that in the same jack the box creative sells would use.
One plug is coax in , the other coax out.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: XMan
Multi-channel analog in is honestly the best way to go, especially if you're going to be watching Blu-Rays. Optical or coaxial S/PDIF do not have the bandwidth to carry HD audio. PC HDMI solutions are somewhat crippled right now so analog is it.

Actually SPDIF is more than capable of carrying HD audio.
It is the MPAA that prevented it. Some of us engineers wanted audio to use a separate stream from the video so that people would have more flexibility . You could have just connected the audio part for receivers . It would have added a whole 1 pin to the connector. But the MPAA bitched about them having to put protection on two different systems and forced the video and audio encoded on same streams BS.

I remember getting really pissed because I kept asking, who the hell wants to steal the soundtrack from a dvd ? It isn't like people go around copying movie dialog to play on their mp3 player. sigh, thats why I quit engineering, too much marketing BS.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
You don't have to have DDL. You just need a card that can do PCM over Coax/optical. Dolby is just a brand name with specific specs. 5.1 pcm is decodable by just about every receiver with coax/optical. Games just output 5.1 not the dolby branded version.
http://budgetgamer.files.wordp...1-rca-to-headphone.jpg


Just plug that in the same jack the box creative sells would use.
One plug is coax in , the other coax out.

Name a sound card and receiver capable of receiving/sending 5.1 over coax/optical.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks
You don't have to have DDL. You just need a card that can do PCM over Coax/optical. Dolby is just a brand name with specific specs. 5.1 pcm is decodable by just about every receiver with coax/optical. Games just output 5.1 not the dolby branded version.
http://budgetgamer.files.wordp...1-rca-to-headphone.jpg


Just plug that in the same jack the box creative sells would use.
One plug is coax in , the other coax out.

Name a sound card and receiver capable of receiving/sending 5.1 over coax/optical.

Not sure what you are asking .
Lots of sound cards can send 5.1 over coax and optical and many receivers can decode it.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks
You don't have to have DDL. You just need a card that can do PCM over Coax/optical. Dolby is just a brand name with specific specs. 5.1 pcm is decodable by just about every receiver with coax/optical. Games just output 5.1 not the dolby branded version.
http://budgetgamer.files.wordp...1-rca-to-headphone.jpg


Just plug that in the same jack the box creative sells would use.
One plug is coax in , the other coax out.

Name a sound card and receiver capable of receiving/sending 5.1 over coax/optical.

Not sure what you are asking .
Lots of sound cards can send 5.1 over coax and optical and many receivers can decode it.

You said 5.1 PCM is decodeable by receivers with coax or optical connections. I have yet to see a receiver capable of doing this over these connections. You also said there is no need for DDL. You just need a sound card that can do PCM over coax/optical. I am assuming here you are talking about 5.1 as that is the point of DDL. So what sound card can output 5.1 over coax/optical connections?

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks
You don't have to have DDL. You just need a card that can do PCM over Coax/optical. Dolby is just a brand name with specific specs. 5.1 pcm is decodable by just about every receiver with coax/optical. Games just output 5.1 not the dolby branded version.
http://budgetgamer.files.wordp...1-rca-to-headphone.jpg


Just plug that in the same jack the box creative sells would use.
One plug is coax in , the other coax out.

Name a sound card and receiver capable of receiving/sending 5.1 over coax/optical.

Not sure what you are asking .
Lots of sound cards can send 5.1 over coax and optical and many receivers can decode it.

You said 5.1 PCM is decodeable by receivers with coax or optical connections. I have yet to see a receiver capable of doing this over these connections. You also said there is no need for DDL. You just need a sound card that can do PCM over coax/optical. I am assuming here you are talking about 5.1 as that is the point of DDL. So what sound card can output 5.1 over coax/optical connections?

I should have said that it depends on the game. Some games do output 5.1 over PCM, some do not and that would be 2 channel audio. It depends on the library it was written with. All games should be switching to 5.1 via PCM soon. And it requires no special hardware.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...y/bb669181(VS.85).aspx

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks
You don't have to have DDL. You just need a card that can do PCM over Coax/optical. Dolby is just a brand name with specific specs. 5.1 pcm is decodable by just about every receiver with coax/optical. Games just output 5.1 not the dolby branded version.
http://budgetgamer.files.wordp...1-rca-to-headphone.jpg


Just plug that in the same jack the box creative sells would use.
One plug is coax in , the other coax out.

Name a sound card and receiver capable of receiving/sending 5.1 over coax/optical.

Not sure what you are asking .
Lots of sound cards can send 5.1 over coax and optical and many receivers can decode it.

You said 5.1 PCM is decodeable by receivers with coax or optical connections. I have yet to see a receiver capable of doing this over these connections. You also said there is no need for DDL. You just need a sound card that can do PCM over coax/optical. I am assuming here you are talking about 5.1 as that is the point of DDL. So what sound card can output 5.1 over coax/optical connections?

I should have said that it depends on the game. Some games do output 5.1 over PCM, some do not and that would be 2 channel audio. It depends on the library it was written with. All games should be switching to 5.1 via PCM soon. And it requires no special hardware.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...y/bb669181(VS.85).aspx

I suppose technically all games have 5.1 PCM audio. My problem is the output of this audio is a function of the sound card not the game. I know of no sound card that supports more than 2 channels of PCM sound over optical/digital coax connections. In addition, I know of no receiver that supports decoding of 5.1 PCM over optical/digital coax connections.

Now if your talking the future use of HDMI outputs for 5.1 PCM game audio, I agree with you there. But that wasn't the topic here and that doesn't mean DDL isn't needed.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks
You don't have to have DDL. You just need a card that can do PCM over Coax/optical. Dolby is just a brand name with specific specs. 5.1 pcm is decodable by just about every receiver with coax/optical. Games just output 5.1 not the dolby branded version.
http://budgetgamer.files.wordp...1-rca-to-headphone.jpg


Just plug that in the same jack the box creative sells would use.
One plug is coax in , the other coax out.

Name a sound card and receiver capable of receiving/sending 5.1 over coax/optical.

Not sure what you are asking .
Lots of sound cards can send 5.1 over coax and optical and many receivers can decode it.

You said 5.1 PCM is decodeable by receivers with coax or optical connections. I have yet to see a receiver capable of doing this over these connections. You also said there is no need for DDL. You just need a sound card that can do PCM over coax/optical. I am assuming here you are talking about 5.1 as that is the point of DDL. So what sound card can output 5.1 over coax/optical connections?

I should have said that it depends on the game. Some games do output 5.1 over PCM, some do not and that would be 2 channel audio. It depends on the library it was written with. All games should be switching to 5.1 via PCM soon. And it requires no special hardware.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...y/bb669181(VS.85).aspx

I suppose technically all games have 5.1 PCM audio. My problem is the output of this audio is a function of the sound card not the game. I know of no sound card that supports more than 2 channels of PCM sound over optical/digital coax connections. In addition, I know of no receiver that supports decoding of 5.1 PCM over optical/digital coax connections.

Now if your talking the future use of HDMI outputs for 5.1 PCM game audio, I agree with you there. But that wasn't the topic here and that doesn't mean DDL isn't needed.

I see why you were confused by what I was saying. I'm a engineer first and a gamer second. When I think of SPDIF I think of PCM, not as the specific format of the audio like AC-3 or PCM, but as the way the signal is transmitted along the cable.

There is nothing in a sound card to prevent it from sending a 5.1 signal out SPDIF except that it needs to be presented with one. That is where the changes in DirectX come in.

The problem before was that games used directsound. Directsound required the developer to address each speaker as an output, like wave 1 to front left, and then the driver would play that sound. It now requires that all sounds be in PCM format, so once mixed, the software presents a AC-3 like stream called ADPCM to the driver. If the sound card driver can output that, it becomes a pass through just like DVD. If not it is decoded out analog ports . Its the best of both worlds. I have tried a couple different 5.1 receivers and they all process ADPCM without a problem. One receiver did see it as DTS thought instead of DD which actually makes sense.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks
You don't have to have DDL. You just need a card that can do PCM over Coax/optical. Dolby is just a brand name with specific specs. 5.1 pcm is decodable by just about every receiver with coax/optical. Games just output 5.1 not the dolby branded version.
http://budgetgamer.files.wordp...1-rca-to-headphone.jpg


Just plug that in the same jack the box creative sells would use.
One plug is coax in , the other coax out.

Name a sound card and receiver capable of receiving/sending 5.1 over coax/optical.

Not sure what you are asking .
Lots of sound cards can send 5.1 over coax and optical and many receivers can decode it.

You said 5.1 PCM is decodeable by receivers with coax or optical connections. I have yet to see a receiver capable of doing this over these connections. You also said there is no need for DDL. You just need a sound card that can do PCM over coax/optical. I am assuming here you are talking about 5.1 as that is the point of DDL. So what sound card can output 5.1 over coax/optical connections?

I should have said that it depends on the game. Some games do output 5.1 over PCM, some do not and that would be 2 channel audio. It depends on the library it was written with. All games should be switching to 5.1 via PCM soon. And it requires no special hardware.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...y/bb669181(VS.85).aspx

I suppose technically all games have 5.1 PCM audio. My problem is the output of this audio is a function of the sound card not the game. I know of no sound card that supports more than 2 channels of PCM sound over optical/digital coax connections. In addition, I know of no receiver that supports decoding of 5.1 PCM over optical/digital coax connections.

Now if your talking the future use of HDMI outputs for 5.1 PCM game audio, I agree with you there. But that wasn't the topic here and that doesn't mean DDL isn't needed.

I see why you were confused by what I was saying. I'm a engineer first and a gamer second. When I think of SPDIF I think of PCM, not as the specific format of the audio like AC-3 or PCM, but as the way the signal is transmitted along the cable.

There is nothing in a sound card to prevent it from sending a 5.1 signal out SPDIF except that it needs to be presented with one. That is where the changes in DirectX come in.

The problem before was that games used directsound. Directsound required the developer to address each speaker as an output, like wave 1 to front left, and then the driver would play that sound. It now requires that all sounds be in PCM format, so once mixed, the software presents a AC-3 like stream called ADPCM to the driver. If the sound card driver can output that, it becomes a pass through just like DVD. If not it is decoded out analog ports . Its the best of both worlds. I have tried a couple different 5.1 receivers and they all process ADPCM without a problem. One receiver did see it as DTS thought instead of DD which actually makes sense.

I guess I would like to see this in practice. I am an engineer as well and I highly doubt any receiver that expects to receive DD or DTS or 2.0 PCM would recognize and properly decode a format not in its specification. As you and I both know the D->A converter on the receiver end must be capable of handling the PCM format presented to it. If it is expecting standard PCM and receives lossy ADPCM, the receiver will not properly handle the input stream.

Lets also be clear that you initially said PCM. ADPCM is not PCM. One is lossy one is not. DDL is lossy as well but it is the current go to way of getting 5.1 PCM audio off a computer over a optical/digital coaxial out because that is the standard that has been written. Could fiber or digital coax handle 5.1 audio? Sure, but hardware companies would have had to design for it and because they haven't DDL or DTS Connect is the way to go if you want 5.1 over digital coax or optical cables.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
I guess I would like to see this in practice. I am an engineer as well and I highly doubt any receiver that expects to receive DD or DTS or 2.0 PCM would recognize and properly decode a format not in its specification. As you and I both know the D->A converter on the receiver end must be capable of handling the PCM format presented to it. If it is expecting standard PCM and receives lossy ADPCM, the receiver will not properly handle the input stream.

Lets also be clear that you initially said PCM. ADPCM is not PCM. One is lossy one is not. DDL is lossy as well but it is the current go to way of getting 5.1 PCM audio off a computer over a optical/digital coaxial out because that is the standard that has been written. Could fiber or digital coax handle 5.1 audio? Sure, but hardware companies would have had to design for it and because they haven't DDL or DTS Connect is the way to go if you want 5.1 over digital coax or optical cables.

The receivers decode ADPCM because that is what DTS is. ADPCM is a PCM signal. No it is not PCM the audio format, but it is a PCM signal. If you recreate the format using software and send it via SPDIF the receiver will decode it. That is all XACT does. Creates a stream and sends it. The DSP recognizes it and decodes it.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
I guess I would like to see this in practice. I am an engineer as well and I highly doubt any receiver that expects to receive DD or DTS or 2.0 PCM would recognize and properly decode a format not in its specification. As you and I both know the D->A converter on the receiver end must be capable of handling the PCM format presented to it. If it is expecting standard PCM and receives lossy ADPCM, the receiver will not properly handle the input stream.

Lets also be clear that you initially said PCM. ADPCM is not PCM. One is lossy one is not. DDL is lossy as well but it is the current go to way of getting 5.1 PCM audio off a computer over a optical/digital coaxial out because that is the standard that has been written. Could fiber or digital coax handle 5.1 audio? Sure, but hardware companies would have had to design for it and because they haven't DDL or DTS Connect is the way to go if you want 5.1 over digital coax or optical cables.

The receivers decode ADPCM because that is what DTS is. ADPCM is a PCM signal. No it is not PCM the audio format, but it is a PCM signal. If you recreate the format using software and send it via SPDIF the receiver will decode it. That is all XACT does. Creates a stream and sends it. The DSP recognizes it and decodes it.

Since I've never seen the DTS compression white paper I will just have to take your word on that. However, why suggest to the OP that all you need is a card capable of outputting 5.1 PCM via the optical/digital coax out when, unless you can show me otherwise, no such sound card exists.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Modelworks
You don't have to have DDL. You just need a card that can do PCM over Coax/optical. Dolby is just a brand name with specific specs. 5.1 pcm is decodable by just about every receiver with coax/optical. Games just output 5.1 not the dolby branded version.
http://budgetgamer.files.wordp...1-rca-to-headphone.jpg


Just plug that in the same jack the box creative sells would use.
One plug is coax in , the other coax out.

Name a sound card and receiver capable of receiving/sending 5.1 over coax/optical.

Not sure what you are asking .
Lots of sound cards can send 5.1 over coax and optical and many receivers can decode it.

You said 5.1 PCM is decodeable by receivers with coax or optical connections. I have yet to see a receiver capable of doing this over these connections. You also said there is no need for DDL. You just need a sound card that can do PCM over coax/optical. I am assuming here you are talking about 5.1 as that is the point of DDL. So what sound card can output 5.1 over coax/optical connections?

I should have said that it depends on the game. Some games do output 5.1 over PCM, some do not and that would be 2 channel audio. It depends on the library it was written with. All games should be switching to 5.1 via PCM soon. And it requires no special hardware.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...y/bb669181(VS.85).aspx

I suppose technically all games have 5.1 PCM audio. My problem is the output of this audio is a function of the sound card not the game. I know of no sound card that supports more than 2 channels of PCM sound over optical/digital coax connections. In addition, I know of no receiver that supports decoding of 5.1 PCM over optical/digital coax connections.

Now if your talking the future use of HDMI outputs for 5.1 PCM game audio, I agree with you there. But that wasn't the topic here and that doesn't mean DDL isn't needed.

Maybe this would work for sending 5.1 PCM (via HDMI)? Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater HD