Computer Sciences or Information Systems?

Oakenfold

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Okay so I finished my bachelor's degree in Management, yeah yeah I know but hey I chose to quit finance because I really couldn't see myself being a financial analyst so I changed majors.
Anyhow I'm already wanting to get back into school after graduating this past September, I'm considering a Bachelors in CS or IS.
Taking all comments/suggestions etc.
I would plan to do an MCSE or some other certifications while doing the degree.
TIA!
 

JetBlack69

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2001
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Programming = CS
Working in a business to update their computer software = IS

It sounds like you should do IS.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
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Go CS. IS is but a small subset of CS, and while it'll teach you more specific things about IS, it is also at a high risk of being obsolete in 5-10 years. With a CS degree, knowledge can still become obsolete, but the processes and algorithms learned can last a lifetime.
 

AbsolutDealage

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Dec 20, 2002
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CS is the more useful degree (IMO), and in my experience companies will (almost) always accept a CS degree as proof of general computer knowledge (read: you can get basically any lower level IS job with a CS degree).
 

cchen

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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You really want to go back to school for 4 years, and get a BS in CS? Why not go for a master's in IS?
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
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Originally posted by: AbsolutDealage
CS is the more useful degree (IMO), and in my experience companies will (almost) always accept a CS degree as proof of general computer knowledge (read: you can get basically any lower level IS job with a CS degree).
This is true, but if you're about to be hired as a CS guy, you're not seen as a guy with a ton of business sense. The guy who can talk to the customers. It depends if you want to be the coder or the IT/IS guy. The latter being more business-friendly and a lot of room for movement. The former is more the guy who works in the cube with his head down most of the day. There's a lot of competition for that already.

Just generalizations of course. In today's economy, I'd personally rather be the IT/IS guy.
 

igowerf

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2000
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Originally posted by: AbsolutDealage
CS is the more useful degree (IMO), and in my experience companies will (almost) always accept a CS degree as proof of general computer knowledge (read: you can get basically any lower level IS job with a CS degree).

I've found that a lot of CS students don't know how to do much except programming.
 

dawks

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: igowerf
Originally posted by: AbsolutDealage
CS is the more useful degree (IMO), and in my experience companies will (almost) always accept a CS degree as proof of general computer knowledge (read: you can get basically any lower level IS job with a CS degree).

I've found that a lot of CS students don't know how to do much except programming.

Yup I know lots that dont know anything about routing, or video cards.. or L2 cache performance...
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
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Originally posted by: Ameesh
IS is for CS flunkies and anyone who tells you otherwise is a flunkie themselves
Spoken like a true software engineer. Get your head out from behind that screen once in a while, k ? :D
 

wyvrn

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
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IT/MIS degrees are very helpul and the consultant/system analyst is expected to be a top 5 growth field in the economy in the next 10 years. While computer science geeks and engineers often like to treat IS people like bastard stepchildren, the FACT is that companies are more and more recognizing a need for analysts that can take their understanding of technology and relate that to business people, especially upper management. Further, I have seen several studies where programmers often make very poor system designers because they are so focused on the details they do not see the big picture. The result, in 70% of cases, is a failed project. These are statistics from a very recent study that my Systems Analysis and Design prof who used to work for the U.N. She has a PhD as well.

That's my schpeel :) There is a place for both types of people, it just depends on what you want to do.
 

AbsolutDealage

Platinum Member
Dec 20, 2002
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Originally posted by: rh71
Originally posted by: AbsolutDealage
CS is the more useful degree (IMO), and in my experience companies will (almost) always accept a CS degree as proof of general computer knowledge (read: you can get basically any lower level IS job with a CS degree).
This is true, but if you're about to be hired as a CS guy, you're not seen as a guy with a ton of business sense. The guy who can talk to the customers. It depends if you want to be the coder or the IT/IS guy. The latter being more business-friendly and a lot of room for movement. The former is more the guy who works in the cube with his head down most of the day. There's a lot of competition for that already.

Just generalizations of course. In today's economy, I'd personally rather be the IT/IS guy.

Just as a little background, I have my BS in Computer Engineering, but am working in IS at the moment. I will most likely be moving into a firmware position some time this year, FWIW.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
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I dont get why people say MIS is for CS flunkies. It is not true at all. A CS major can do the programming aspect of IS (they usually do something along the lines of VB w/.NET), but i doubt a CS major could the business aspect of the job, which requires more than the understanding of an algorithm. LIke wyvrn said, CS majors will fail to see teh big picture of at all.....
 

Doodoo

Golden Member
Feb 14, 2000
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Ameesh is right, IS is for CS dropouts. In my freshman year, about 1/4 of the CS majors changed majors within the first month. Either they didn't like it or they just didn't have what it takes. I would say about 90% of those who changed majors went to IS or IT.
 

ntsf

Senior member
Feb 21, 2001
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My $0.02:

In my school, CS is very difficult. Many that want to do CS but that can't cut it decide to go with IS. Now, I tend to think that an IS degree prepares you better for business related work right out of school, but the IS students don't take any of the important theoretical courses. Thus, their technical knowledge is limited to the "flavor of the moment." The tough courses are reserved for the CS majors.

Basically, the IS students here are those that started to choke on the tougher CS material but that wanted a degree that had to do with computers. It's more like a BS in business with a bunch of programming courses. It can hardly be compared to a real CS degree.

rolleye.gif
:beer:
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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Meh. Go IS. It's easier. Take the easier classes and concentrated on working or getting an internship that will actually get you real working experience.

That way you can still make grade, but have invaluable XP to put on resume from hands on training.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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If you have a Mgmt degree, you've already taken lots of business classes.

Therefore:
A) Take CS - now you will have both the technical AND business foundations.
or
B) If most of the biz classes you've already taken transfer, you may be able to get the IS degree cheaper and quicker. I am in agreement with those who think IS is a sham. I once declared that it's just there to make the school of business look "hip" and "with it."

I work with guys that have masters degrees in IS and they have to ask me basic questions like how to create a user in ActiveDirectory. Maybe they learned on unix? Then they ask me how to create a user in Solaris.

What did these guys learn? I dunno.
 

Oakenfold

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Thanks for the input guys!

Jzero has nailed it on the head I think since it sounds like my management degree would greatly benefit a CS one to complement it.
Sounds like I'm going to have to brush up on my Physics and Calculus, it's been a while.
;)

If anyone else cares to make comments keep them coming!
I'd like to hear as much input as I can before starting something so specialized as it's not going to be as easy as changing from finance to management.
:D

I must note that this is very interesting to read the debated views from both schools.
 

wyvrn

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
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Originally posted by: Jzero
If you have a Mgmt degree, you've already taken lots of business classes.

Therefore:
A) Take CS - now you will have both the technical AND business foundations.
or
B) If most of the biz classes you've already taken transfer, you may be able to get the IS degree cheaper and quicker. I am in agreement with those who think IS is a sham. I once declared that it's just there to make the school of business look "hip" and "with it."

I work with guys that have masters degrees in IS and they have to ask me basic questions like how to create a user in ActiveDirectory. Maybe they learned on unix? Then they ask me how to create a user in Solaris.

What did these guys learn? I dunno.

You articulate the problem but don't see it yourself. IS guys aren't supposed to know the particulars of an OS or piece of programming code. That's what CS guys are for. We have an intermediate knowledge of most available technology and can help design a system that meets a business need. IS majors aren't supposed to become programmers or engineers. IS isn't supposed to be for CS flunkies. I never enrolled in CS and don't want to be a programmer analyst. I want to know enough about technology to solve a business goal. And the flaw about the argument you and so many other CS guys make is, yeah you are very knowledgable on a subset of technologies. But IS guys get the BIG PICTURE. I have certifications and have done the helpdesk/desktop/pc repair business thing. I have an Associates in Solaris Unix. I have taken Java and am now in C++ class. I get the technical concepts. But I want to design an entire information system that connects all departments of the business together and facilitates knowledge sharing and I cannot do that with only a knowledge of Windows 2000 AD and Cisco routers or how to write a program in Java. Technical people like to beat their chests but in reality, they are one piece to the puzzle (as are IS guys and senior management) in designing a successful Information System.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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You articulate the problem but don't see it yourself. IS guys aren't supposed to know the particulars of an OS or piece of programming code. That's what CS guys are for. We have an intermediate knowledge of most available technology and can help design a system that meets a business need. IS majors aren't supposed to become programmers or engineers. IS isn't supposed to be for CS flunkies. I never enrolled in CS and don't want to be a programmer analyst. I want to know enough about technology to solve a business goal. And the flaw about the argument you and so many other CS guys make is, yeah you are very knowledgable on a subset of technologies. But IS guys get the BIG PICTURE. I have certifications and have done the helpdesk/desktop/pc repair business thing. I have an Associates in Solaris Unix. I have taken Java and am now in C++ class. I get the technical concepts. But I want to design an entire information system that connects all departments of the business together and facilitates knowledge sharing and I cannot do that with only a knowledge of Windows 2000 AD and Cisco routers or how to write a program in Java. Technical people like to beat their chests but in reality, they are one piece to the puzzle (as are IS guys and senior management) in designing a successful Information System.

Nice rant. Maybe you're the exception to the rule?

The problem is: who hires somebody solely to accomplish this nebulous task you describe as "designing a successful Information System?" We have executives and management people who do the high-level planning, and we aren't going to hire some gob right out of college to be an exec or a director or manager. Who would?

So you've got to start at the bottom of the IT deparment and cut your teeth. Guess what the bottom is: the help desk. The help desk where we don't want to have to hold people's hands when it comes to fundamentals. When I got an internship working on a help desk, my supervisor told the operator "Give Jzero any trouble tickets not related to our software." I needed no training outside of learning the software proprietary to that specific company. The company was running Windows, Solaris, Mac, HP-UX and I needed no specific instruction on any of these.

There really isn't a lot of technology to know, if you think about it!

Now I freely admit that I didn't learn what I know as a computer science major where all they care about is programming, but everybody seems to believe that MIS people are supposed to be "the guys" when it comes to all this stuff, but the MIS majors working alongside me didn't know anything. They didn't know much about networking, they didn't know much about databases, they didn't know much about programming, they didn't know much about hardware. They had no applicable knowledge.

We have technical people to respond to and implement the designing and planning ideas made by the execs and management. At my company, the execs have business goals which they communicate to the IT department and the IT director coordinates the subgroups of the IT department to answer the technical questions and provide the solution. I can't see a need for someone who has a halfassed technical background AND a halfassed business background.

Which is why I think the original poster would be very marketable with a management degree AND a CS degree. He'd basically have the business foundation a manager needs, and a technical foundation to back it up.

I've said it before, maybe the big issue is that the role of MIS majors is widely misunderstood, but most people, myself included, seem to believe that MIS majors are supposed to become System Administrators, and that is simply not what they seem to be learning.
 

agnitrate

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: wyvrn
We have an intermediate knowledge of most available technology and can help design a system that meets a business need.

Admittedly I have no business experience, but how do you deisgn a system without coding? Or are you just talking about the task of hooking computers together?

But IS guys get the BIG PICTURE. *snip* But I want to design an entire information system that connects all departments of the business together

I'm confused again. What kind of classes do IS/MIS people take? Do they just design physical system layouts and what not? I always thought it's just some basic programming classes and the rest is just a standard business degree to go along with it.

-silver :confused:
 

DT4K

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2002
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I'm sure there are some IS/IT people who actually wanted to be in the field without getting into the more technical side.
At my school, the two choices were Computer Science and Computer Information Systems.
The most common reason by far for choosing CIS was that it was easier.
In the first year, about 90% of the people were CS majors. But by the last year, it was more like 50/50.
I knew a lot of people who switched after trying to take assembly or compilers.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
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Originally posted by: Gibson486
I dont get why people say MIS is for CS flunkies. It is not true at all. A CS major can do the programming aspect of IS (they usually do something along the lines of VB w/.NET), but i doubt a CS major could the business aspect of the job, which requires more than the understanding of an algorithm. LIke wyvrn said, CS majors will fail to see teh big picture of at all.....

could you provide us with an example where a CS major can't do what an MIS can?
 

DT4K

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
IS

Most of the CS stuff is getting farmed out to india
Not necessarily.
CS != programming
Any joker can be a code monkey.
CS teaches you not just programming, but also good requirements gathering, planning, design, and implementation skills.
Yeah, outsourcing is popular right now. But there are many projects that will fail when outsourced. I predict(could be wrong) that we will see a leveling off of the outsourcing trend as more and more companies have projects fail because developers on the other side of the world didn't have enough understanding of the intricacies of a companies specific needs. Hopefully, some of these IT managers will realize that paying 1/4 the price for a system that doesn't fully meet their needs is not a wise investment. At least that is what I keep telling myself.