Computer Science Majors?

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Ranger X

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs CS is hurting... Info Sys Design and Management is still alright... Thank god Im an info sys major and not a CS one...

Give me a fvckin vreak youre a CS flunkie thats why you are MIS or Info Sys or whatever the fvck you want to call it. Computer Science was too hard for you so you gave to plug routers and switchs together and be some sort of bs paper/email pusher.

Haha! I have to agree with Ameesh on this one. MIS is a joke. I've read the curriculum for MIS majors and CS majors and I must say, MIS is much simpler than CS.

Of course something is always going to be generally perceived as easier/harder. EE > CompE > CS > MIS/(whatever gimmicky acronym), etc. (that order is just my opinion)

how is EE > CompE > CS ? CompE is a mix of EE and CS, EE is straight hardware with little or no focus on Software and CS is the opposite. MIS is just a dumbed down CS ciriculum.

That's just what I think and dozens upon dozens of engineers that I know think that, too. How is it not EE > CompE > CS? 😀 EE is not straight hardware. You don't even know what the hell you're talking about! 😕

how many software classes does you EE Major have? post a link to your dept. website.

Here it is for UCSD:

<a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://http://www.ece.ucsd.edu:16080/current/recommended-schedulesEE.pdf" target=blank>EE Class Schedule, there is only one lower division CS class required.</A>

<a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/undergrad/degreeprograms/bs-cs.html" target=blank>CS Class schedule, very few Hardware Courses</A>

-Ameesh

Um, by saying that they don't only do hardware that doesn't mean that I'm saying that they're mad programmers 🙂

However some fields of EE can be programming-intensive. Image processing, signals courses, etc. can be done with programming languages. Personally I had image processing, computer vision, and signals courses as an undergrad which were pure concepts and programming those concepts. Obviously the non-advanced courses don't take into real CS concepts that you learn in non-programming CS courses.

An EE program incorporates sciences (materials, semiconductor properties, etc.), signal processing, math, photonics, systems and controls, programming, hardware, etc. Saying that it's hardware-only means that you're ignoring a huge chunk of it!

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Ranger X

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs CS is hurting... Info Sys Design and Management is still alright... Thank god Im an info sys major and not a CS one...

Give me a fvckin vreak youre a CS flunkie thats why you are MIS or Info Sys or whatever the fvck you want to call it. Computer Science was too hard for you so you gave to plug routers and switchs together and be some sort of bs paper/email pusher.

Haha! I have to agree with Ameesh on this one. MIS is a joke. I've read the curriculum for MIS majors and CS majors and I must say, MIS is much simpler than CS.

Of course something is always going to be generally perceived as easier/harder. EE > CompE > CS > MIS/(whatever gimmicky acronym), etc. (that order is just my opinion)

how is EE > CompE > CS ? CompE is a mix of EE and CS, EE is straight hardware with little or no focus on Software and CS is the opposite. MIS is just a dumbed down CS ciriculum.

That's just what I think and dozens upon dozens of engineers that I know think that, too. How is it not EE > CompE > CS? 😀 EE is not straight hardware. You don't even know what the hell you're talking about! 😕

how many software classes does you EE Major have? post a link to your dept. website. Here it is for UCSD: <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="[L=http://http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/undergrad/degreeprograms/bs-cs.html" target=blank L] http: ]http: bs-cs.html?[ degreeprograms undergrad [url]www.cse.ucsd.edu>CS Class schedule, very few Hardware Courses[/url] -Ameesh

So how are signals classes such as image processing a 'hardware' class? What about computer vision? These classes are almost primarily (depending on where you go) programming in MATLAB type classes. What about optics? Semiconductor physics? (the last two to show that not all are primarily hardware) An EE major does not necessarily sit there and design circuits.

CS majors have the same math and physics requirements as EE majors at UCSD, programming in matlab is not programming, writing a scheduler for an OS or writing an alogrithm to actualy pattern match against the imaghes recieved by your computer vision circuitry is programming. Niether is more important nor difficult then the other and if you think it is youre just as obtuse as the self-important MIS major.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Ranger X

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs CS is hurting... Info Sys Design and Management is still alright... Thank god Im an info sys major and not a CS one...

Give me a fvckin vreak youre a CS flunkie thats why you are MIS or Info Sys or whatever the fvck you want to call it. Computer Science was too hard for you so you gave to plug routers and switchs together and be some sort of bs paper/email pusher.

Haha! I have to agree with Ameesh on this one. MIS is a joke. I've read the curriculum for MIS majors and CS majors and I must say, MIS is much simpler than CS.

Of course something is always going to be generally perceived as easier/harder. EE > CompE > CS > MIS/(whatever gimmicky acronym), etc. (that order is just my opinion)

how is EE > CompE > CS ? CompE is a mix of EE and CS, EE is straight hardware with little or no focus on Software and CS is the opposite. MIS is just a dumbed down CS ciriculum.

That's just what I think and dozens upon dozens of engineers that I know think that, too. How is it not EE > CompE > CS? 😀 EE is not straight hardware. You don't even know what the hell you're talking about! 😕

how many software classes does you EE Major have? post a link to your dept. website. Here it is for UCSD: <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="[L=http://http://www.ece.ucsd.edu:16080/current/recommended-schedulesEE.pdf" target=blank L] recommended-schedulesEE.pdf?[ current www.ece.ucsd.edu:16080 http: ]http:>EE Class Schedule, there is only one lower division CS class required.</A> <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="[L=http://http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/undergrad/degreeprograms/bs-cs.html" target=blank L] http: ]http: bs-cs.html?[ degreeprograms undergrad www.cse.ucsd.edu>CS Class schedule, very few Hardware Courses</A> -Ameesh

So how are signals classes such as image processing a 'hardware' class? What about computer vision? These classes are almost primarily (depending on where you go) programming in MATLAB type classes. What about optics? Semiconductor physics? (the last two to show that not all are primarily hardware) An EE major does not necessarily sit there and design circuits.

CS majors have the same math and physics requirements as EE majors at UCSD, programming in matlab is not programming, writing a scheduler for an OS or writing an alogrithm to actualy pattern match against the imaghes recieved by your computer vision circuitry is programming. Niether is more important nor difficult then the other and if you think it is youre just as obtuse as the self-important MIS major.

Are you serious? I don't give a crap about the general class requirements. Again, what I'm saying is that the core major curriculum classes for EE is NOT all hardware. Again, like CanOWorms posted after me, you're ignoring a large chunk of this entire major. WTF are you talking about with 'computer vision circuity'? Why the HELL would I mention it if it was some circuits course?

You simply have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Ameesh]

edit: the WYSIWYG editor on this site sucks

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Ranger X

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs CS is hurting... Info Sys Design and Management is still alright... Thank god Im an info sys major and not a CS one...

Give me a fvckin vreak youre a CS flunkie thats why you are MIS or Info Sys or whatever the fvck you want to call it. Computer Science was too hard for you so you gave to plug routers and switchs together and be some sort of bs paper/email pusher.

Haha! I have to agree with Ameesh on this one. MIS is a joke. I've read the curriculum for MIS majors and CS majors and I must say, MIS is much simpler than CS.

Of course something is always going to be generally perceived as easier/harder. EE > CompE > CS > MIS/(whatever gimmicky acronym), etc. (that order is just my opinion)

how is EE > CompE > CS ? CompE is a mix of EE and CS, EE is straight hardware with little or no focus on Software and CS is the opposite. MIS is just a dumbed down CS ciriculum.

That's just what I think and dozens upon dozens of engineers that I know think that, too. How is it not EE > CompE > CS? 😀 EE is not straight hardware. You don't even know what the hell you're talking about! 😕

how many software classes does you EE Major have? post a link to your dept. website. Here it is for UCSD: <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="[L=http://http://www.ece.ucsd.edu:16080/current/recommended-schedulesEE.pdf" target=blank L] recommended-schedulesEE.pdf?[ current www.ece.ucsd.edu:16080 http: ]http:>EE Class Schedule, there is only one lower division CS class required.</A> <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="[L=http://http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/undergrad/degreeprograms/bs-cs.html" target=blank L] http: ]http: bs-cs.html?[ degreeprograms undergrad www.cse.ucsd.edu>CS Class schedule, very few Hardware Courses</A> -Ameesh

So how are signals classes such as image processing a 'hardware' class? What about computer vision? These classes are almost primarily (depending on where you go) programming in MATLAB type classes. What about optics? Semiconductor physics? (the last two to show that not all are primarily hardware) An EE major does not necessarily sit there and design circuits.

CS majors have the same math and physics requirements as EE majors at UCSD, programming in matlab is not programming, writing a scheduler for an OS or writing an alogrithm to actualy pattern match against the imaghes recieved by your computer vision circuitry is programming. Niether is more important nor difficult then the other and if you think it is youre just as obtuse as the self-important MIS major.

Kind of ironic that you're saying that considering your reply to Mr. MIS.

I never said that MATLAB is the same as CS programming, in fact I stated that it was different. But some advanced courses take into account CS ideas.

I'm not sure why you're posting about math and physics requirements? That doesn't exactly mean much to me.

 

[EmperorIQ]

[/quote]Trust me, it's probably not pure hardware there. Maybe the intro level courses in the freshman and sophomore years are (if you count circuits, microelectronics, digital logic, etc. as hardware), but they HAVE to have some other fields. People really don't understand how diverse the EE field is. It's absolutely inconceivable to think that they would be PURE hardware! It's like saying a philosophy major never reads books![/quote]

Yea, sorry about that, i take it back that i said EE majors are pure hardware. But seriously there is EE = CS&E = CS. I know EE majors (about 5) who swears that they will never take another programming course for as long as they live. I know CS&E majors (about 5 <= X <10) who claims that they went into the major because the extra 'E' will look good on the record. All majors are the same, it all depends on personal preferences. Some classes have more programming courses, others have more EE courses, it doesn't mean that one is more difficult than the other. However, i am someone speaking from the inside. Sad to say though, to the general public it might be true that

EE>CSE>CS, but that is to the general public, i dont' think employers see it that way

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Ranger X

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs CS is hurting... Info Sys Design and Management is still alright... Thank god Im an info sys major and not a CS one...

Give me a fvckin vreak youre a CS flunkie thats why you are MIS or Info Sys or whatever the fvck you want to call it. Computer Science was too hard for you so you gave to plug routers and switchs together and be some sort of bs paper/email pusher.

Haha! I have to agree with Ameesh on this one. MIS is a joke. I've read the curriculum for MIS majors and CS majors and I must say, MIS is much simpler than CS.

Of course something is always going to be generally perceived as easier/harder. EE > CompE > CS > MIS/(whatever gimmicky acronym), etc. (that order is just my opinion)

how is EE > CompE > CS ? CompE is a mix of EE and CS, EE is straight hardware with little or no focus on Software and CS is the opposite. MIS is just a dumbed down CS ciriculum.

That's just what I think and dozens upon dozens of engineers that I know think that, too. How is it not EE > CompE > CS? 😀 EE is not straight hardware. You don't even know what the hell you're talking about! 😕

how many software classes does you EE Major have? post a link to your dept. website. Here it is for UCSD: <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="[L=http://http://www.ece.ucsd.edu:16080/current/recommended-schedulesEE.pdf" target=blank L] recommended-schedulesEE.pdf?[ current www.ece.ucsd.edu:16080 http: ]http:>EE Class Schedule, there is only one lower division CS class required.</A> <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="[L=http://http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/undergrad/degreeprograms/bs-cs.html" target=blank L] http: ]http: bs-cs.html?[ degreeprograms undergrad www.cse.ucsd.edu>CS Class schedule, very few Hardware Courses</A> -Ameesh

So how are signals classes such as image processing a 'hardware' class? What about computer vision? These classes are almost primarily (depending on where you go) programming in MATLAB type classes. What about optics? Semiconductor physics? (the last two to show that not all are primarily hardware) An EE major does not necessarily sit there and design circuits.

CS majors have the same math and physics requirements as EE majors at UCSD, programming in matlab is not programming, writing a scheduler for an OS or writing an alogrithm to actualy pattern match against the imaghes recieved by your computer vision circuitry is programming. Niether is more important nor difficult then the other and if you think it is youre just as obtuse as the self-important MIS major.

Writing an algorithm to actually pattern match against images sounds like image processing and computer vision. Facial recognition, speech recognition, etc.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: EmperorIQ

Trust me, it's probably not pure hardware there. Maybe the intro level courses in the freshman and sophomore years are (if you count circuits, microelectronics, digital logic, etc. as hardware), but they HAVE to have some other fields. People really don't understand how diverse the EE field is. It's absolutely inconceivable to think that they would be PURE hardware! It's like saying a philosophy major never reads books![/quote]

Yea, sorry about that, i take it back that i said EE majors are pure hardware. But seriously there is EE = CS&E = CS. I know EE majors (about 5) who swears that they will never take another programming course for as long as they live. I know CS&E majors (about 5 <= X <10) who claims that they went into the major because the extra 'E' will look good on the record. All majors are the same, it all depends on personal preferences. Some classes have more programming courses, others have more EE courses, it doesn't mean that one is more difficult than the other. However, i am someone speaking from the inside. Sad to say though, to the general public it might be true that

EE>CSE>CS, but that is to the general public, i dont' think employers see it that way[/quote]

It's just my perception that a lot more people can go into CS than can go into EE. Same thing with philosophy. Some engineers suck at philosophy, but it's viewed as an easier degree because for the most part a large number of people can do it unlike something like chemical engineering.

I know EEs that hate CS. They're out there. I'm not denying it 🙂 I know EEs that couldn't handle the more CompE-related courses.

Depending on the school, I might say that EE = CompE = CS. It depends on the programs. But generally, EE > CompE > CS. I think at most schools EE = CompE though, but CompE is perceived as a bit easier though. Is EE the hardest? Maybe, maybe not, probably not.

I think the one thing that EE has on CompE is that it's viewed as a more fundamental and broad program.

 

[EmperorIQ]

wow, i started a thread that has 57 posts 🙂

is it 57? or 57 - (my own posts?)

 

[CanOWorms]

EmperorIQ, I apologize for making this post go off-topic 🙂

 

[EmperorIQ]

no way man, its been fun, this thread went on throught classes today, during break and such, so its been great!, thanks actually

 

[VioletAura]

Originally posted by: EmperorIQ
Anyone here computer science majors? I was talking to a guy who claims that the job market for computer science major is crapped now and a bachelors means sh*t right now. He said that there are much much more people out there with a whole lot more experience that you'd have to be a really really smart aaaaaaaaaaaaas to get a job by the time you graduate. This guy scared me, do yo uguys have any opinions on t his? I always assumed as long as we (computer science majors) worked hard and had a few connections we can get a decent career.
thanks

Sounds like something I would have told you. I graduated last year as a CS major and been doing one lousy job after another since then, all computer science unrelated. There are many people who have been laid off with much better resumes than a recent graduate can put together out hunting for jobs as well in the same area of study. It isn't impossible to get a CS related job, but close to it unless you know someone.

 

[miniMUNCH]

your frnd is partly right about experienced people being out there, i am a comp sci major (bachelors and masters) and i work an in a pretty big sofware company, what i would say is dont decide your career/major based on whatz hot/in at the moment, pursue wat interests you and what you are really good at and see yourself doing, if you do you'll do well no matter what

what he said...but...that being said, try to go to grad school if you can. Depending on your grades you may be able to get a paid graduate position and grad school is a ton of fun and way better than working ( I know from experience).

 

Of course something is always going to be generally perceived as easier/harder. EE > CompE > CS > MIS/(whatever gimmicky acronym), etc. (that order is just my opinion)

Let the arguing commence!

omg, an ultra nerd pissing contest. This is funny.
I took 2.5 full years of CS and quit. Just because I hated every ounce of it.

 

[mjquilly]

Of course something is always going to be generally perceived as easier/harder. EE > CompE > CS > MIS/(whatever gimmicky acronym), etc. (that order is just my opinion)

MIS??? how 'bout EE > CompE > CS > Leisure Studies > MIS

 

[kalster]

well i have to agree with some of the ppl in this thread who say EE>CS (
although i did do CS myself i found the 2-3 ee courses i did during undergrad(Analog Circuits, Digital Signal Processing, Communication Systems) very hard


i would agree EE is a bit harder but its a personal thing i guess, i find it easier to visualize algoriithms than circuits or watever,

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: EmperorIQ
Anyone here computer science majors? I was talking to a guy who claims that the job market for computer science major is crapped now and a bachelors means sh*t right now. He said that there are much much more people out there with a whole lot more experience that you'd have to be a really really smart aaaaaaaaaaaaas to get a job by the time you graduate. This guy scared me, do yo uguys have any opinions on t his? I always assumed as long as we (computer science majors) worked hard and had a few connections we can get a decent career.
thanks

I am a computer science major....absolutely no jobs due to several things

1) you have $30k in school loans, some 'kid' else has a web class certificate he sent a SASE in to get, total cost .37 cents x 2. 🙁
1a) You need at least $25/hr to cover loans and live decently, same kid needs about $3/hr more than cash and carry to cover his paintballs and manga subscriptions he lives at home

2) while you were spending time in class, same kid spent his day taking every cert on the net, you have AS, BSCS after your name he has every letter in every alphabet ever conceived.

3) you need benefits, he still has his parent's coverage.

etc....

My area is bad for computer jobs as it is....I have experience back to 1983 and a Comp Sci Bachelors and about 140 hours in Biology/Chemistry (2 classes shy of the degree but alot of extras)....the first thing I get asked is am I A+, MCSE, CNA, CCNA, etc....my experience and degree don't even get asked about.

If I do get a job lined up, I get asked what do I expect....we dance around because it's a loaded question...they are hoping I shoot lower than they want.

I usally end up saying bet $20 to $25 to start with paid vacations and holidays, and health insurance.

I goes down like this...

no health...most of our employees are self insured (since they are kids)

no paid holidays, but you can take off most any day you want....yadda yadda yadda

We can start you at $12 per hour for 3 months, if you do well we can consider $15 and then maybe more later (which never happens).

I should have stayed in banking....10 years ago I had a big house on the water, covered two nice cars, ate out every night, went out every night to a movie or something fun, bought tons of junk I didn't need....had no debt.

Now I have $32k in school loans, $8k in credit debt. (was over $20k, but these past two years I knocked it out pretty good)

Also the whole EE CS argument is pointless...some get hardware and the math well, some get programming well.

EE = Hardware CS = Software they are two similar but different disciplines. You might as well compare a Vet with a MD and debate that out.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

EE = Hardware CS = Software they are two similar but different disciplines. You might as well compare a Vet with a MD and debate that out.

Read the posts 🙂 By saying that EE is hardware you are only accounting for a fraction of electrical engineering.

 

[Tab]

Heh, wish the Job Market wasnt so bad. Anyone have suggestions on what to take if your good with computers. How do define good between great? I know how things work but dont know the exact spec of IRQ 6 or whatever. Whats the difference between Computer Science and Computer Enginnering. Which one has less math and what kind of Math. Because, I would prefer to work with computers for the rest of my life and a sort of suck at math mostly just slow.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Heh, wish the Job Market wasnt so bad. Anyone have suggestions on what to take if your good with computers. How do define good between great? I know how things work but dont know the exact spec of IRQ 6 or whatever. Whats the difference between Computer Science and Computer Enginnering. Which one has less math and what kind of Math. Because, I would prefer to work with computers for the rest of my life and a sort of suck at math mostly just slow.

They would probably require about the same amount of math. How math-intensive it will be will depend upon your program and what field you're looking for.

Just because you like computers and the degree has computer in the name doesn't mean that you're going to like it. Way too many people think WOW I'M GOING TO BE AN ELECTRICAL/COMPUTER/CS AND BUILD COOL VIDEOGAMES ON SUPERCOMPUTERS and are shocked when they realize what it really involves! Give it a shot though!

 

[crrdsh]

From my experience with this cs mess, connections are everything. Especially now.

~still looking for connections! haha ...doh😕

 

[raystorm]

Please major in something that you will enjoy and look forward to learning. Do not think about how "hard" is a subject. Think about the level of interest and motivation in learning whichever major you choose. You could major in Computer Science/Engineering and like the post above mentions you could think "I can make cool video games!!! I can work on super duper computers and make my own OS!!!".. all this only to find out that you really do not like calculus..you hate physics.. you are poor at programming..then notice your GPA dropping to the point where you will give up college entirely and totally screwup your outlook on your future.

I am majoring in CIS myself and noticed it getting trashed here and thats ok. I very much enjoyed the courses I've taken so far such as statistics, management science (which has some interesting ways of solving management/business problems using matrices, simplex solutions..etc), economics (I'm not sure about other schools, but I am required to take 7 economics courses plus one accounting.), database management, unix administration..etc.

I do have an associates in Computer Science and had to take 3 Calculus courses, 2 Physics courses, 3 Programming courses (Two C++ and one Assembly), Discreet Math, Linear Algebra and a Chemistry course (why a chem course for computer science is beyond me) among other courses to get that degree. I think I got at least a good taste of what CS has to offer and could've continued the cirriculum, but decided against it as I didnt really feel motivated as well as interested in the more advanced courses. Not because I hated CS, but just lost total interest.

While I lost interest in CS I did enjoy all the courses I took to receive my associates. I also enjoy the CIS courses I'm taking as well and I love my economic courses so much that I may major in that as well (double major). I will also take 3 or 4 CS courses and use CS as a minor as well. I may go to graduate school as well once I get my bachelors.

Do yourself a big favor and read and research EACH course description for whichever major you've chosen and decide for yourself if that is something you will enjoy (college is supposed to be an great time for you not a frustrating one).

Also, pick up a nice useful trade such as automotive mechanics, carpentry, masonry..etc.. something to fall back on if college doesn't work out for you.

Good luck!!! Hope you do well!

 

[xizor]

your friend is partially correct. if you have a BS w/ a 3.5GPA, you are set for an excellent job. It certainly helps to have a MS, it seperates you from every other BS degree. Companies are definately hiring, I interviewed with IBM, Booz Allen and Hamilton, Vanguard and Lockheed Martin the last 3 weeks since I'm graduating in May04 w/ a MS. I expect no trouble w/ finding a good paying job, but again I do have a good GPA.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: alkemyst

EE = Hardware CS = Software they are two similar but different disciplines. You might as well compare a Vet with a MD and debate that out.

Read the posts 🙂 By saying that EE is hardware you are only accounting for a fraction of electrical engineering.

I realize that is not absolutely all EE is/does...there are some very accomplished EE programmers that really just 'talk' to the device....but I was talking simplistics and how one can be just as hard as the other.

Granted for many the EE tract is harder...

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: xizor
your friend is partially correct. if you have a BS w/ a 3.5GPA, you are set for an excellent job. It certainly helps to have a MS, it seperates you from every other BS degree. Companies are definately hiring, I interviewed with IBM, Booz Allen and Hamilton, Vanguard and Lockheed Martin the last 3 weeks since I'm graduating in May04 w/ a MS. I expect no trouble w/ finding a good paying job, but again I do have a good GPA.

hmmm yes and no....a 3.5 GPA from a top ranked school yes....but grades are only good for your first job if they even get brought up....I have never been asked my grades on a interview or asked to provide them. The MS and any graduate degree goes without saying....for some it's not practical and can cost more than the first four years of undergrad.

Companies are hiring in some localities. The fact is in many they are not. In West Palm Beach the market is dry for 'real' programmers. Companies want 'kids' they put out ads with 10 lines of skillsets and certificates wanted and at the end of the listing put: Pay up to $25k salary yearly, 50hours/wk based on experience