Computer owners that "limp along", versus "buy/build new".

[VirtualLarry]

Is there an identifiable dichotomy there?

I did some work for a client, that has two older laptops.

One is an older laptop, with a Core2-era mobile chip, 512MB of DDR2, and a 60GB HDD, with 109 bad sectors, running Win7 Ultimate. (It was given to them.)

Client wants to update laptop with more RAM. I went to Crucial.com, looked up the model, and they claim it can take 2x1GB DDR2-667 SO-DIMMs, and they want to sell a kit for $39.99. Not too bad, to max out the laptop, and make it usable.

It took literally almost 5-10 minutes to load web sites. The HDD was thrashing, running Win7 on 512MB of RAM. I think it was running Avast too, which surely takes up RAM and slows it down too.

Their other laptop, has a cracked screen and two busted USB ports, from being dropped. They inquired if I could fix screens and USB ports. (I don't.)

It does have 4GB of RAM (probably DDR3, it's a newer laptop).

I cleaned some malware off of the second machine, and several times, I had to reboot, because the app / OS hung with a swirly cursor. This suggests that the HDD has bad sectors (likely from being dropped), and needs to be replaced as well. (Because of time constraints, and the OS hanging, I didn't have a chance to load HDTune on that machine, and check the SMART data for re-allocated sectors.)

I quoted the client a reasonable price on an SSD for the first laptop (my cost at Newegg), since it had been dropped a few times, and the person using it was likely to drop it again, and I suggested a replacement SSD instead of HDD, because it was mostly immune to being dropped. Along with the price listed at Crucial. (Of course, I will charge for labor to install both of them, and clone the OS.)

At what point (price), is it worth it to just scrap machines, versus trying to limp along with ancient or broken machines?

Rather than

First laptop:
$66 SSD
$50 OS clone
$40 2x1GB DDR2 SO-DIMM
$40 RAM installation

Second laptop:
New screen? (Microcenter will replace cracked screens starting at $119.99)
New motherboard? (I assume USB ports are soldered to mobo)
New HDD/SSD? (Due to bad sectors accumulating)
Re-install OS, due to malware and bad sectors?

What about selling the client a desktop, and helping them purchase a newer laptop at retail or something?

I've got some desktop machines that were either built or purchased, that I would love to sell the client, but I need to talk to them more at length about the "bigger picture", and getting the most for their money.

If mobility is important (the second laptop is sitting on a desk, opened part-way to use the keyboard, hooked up to a CRT monitor, so I'm guessing "no", at least for one of the PCs), then I could see fixing up the first laptop. (Actually, it needs a battery replacement too, so perhaps the current answer to mobility needs is "no" for the first laptop as well.)

I have an older Core2-era laptop (with a brand-new battery from Ebay) I could sell the client. It's an MSI, with an NV IGP, dual-core, DVD-RW, 3GB DDR2, Win7 64-bit. And a 120GB SSD. I think that I would want as much or more for it though, than an brand-new Bay Trail Craptop. (It's very nice, cost $400+ originally, and that was on sale.)

I bought a pair of Bay Trail N2830 laptops, with 4GB DDR3 / 500GB HDD, DVD-RW, Win8.1 for $230 ea at BestBuy a few months ago. I barely use them, but I want to keep them.

I have a nice little "petite" E-350 ITX rig I built, slightly used, but with a "new" 50GB (factory refurb) OCZ Vertex2 SSD. (Which I suspect was actually "new old stock", I didn't see any power-on hours in SMART.) 4GB RAM, Wifi N150 2.4Ghz. Legit Win7 64-bit included.

I also have a Lenovo Sandy Bridge i3 PC, with 4GB / 1TB, DVD, no WiFi, that I picked up cheap enough I could sell it cheap and still make a profit. It's a full-sized mid-tower though, not a SFF. OEM Win8 64-bit included, along with a keyboard and mouse.

Part of the problem, the client has very little money, or acts that way. (Had a nice big TV, but again, CRT, so it could have been a freebie from someone else.)

I'd like to make back some money, for the freebie malware-removal that I gave them, but I want to do the right thing overall for the client, even if that means that I just assist them in buying a newer $200 laptop somewhere.

Along with this example of this dichotomy, I present this other thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2401128

Thoughts? (On either how I should proceed with assisting my client, or thoughts on people that prefer to fix up, piece by piece, and limp along with broken or older PCs, rather than save up and replace them outright.)

Edit: HP is introducing some $200 Win8.1 Bay Trail laptops in colors.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2401927

 

[Yuriman]

You know what you need to tell them, just not how. If the repair costs are approaching 75% of the price for a new, better machine, it doesn't make any sense. I'm leaning toward pointing them toward a new budget laptop, even if they're likely to drop it and break it too.

It might have made it easier to swallow if you could've taken the best of the two computers they have and combined them into one better working machine, but it sounds like you basically need to replace everything.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You know what you need to tell them, just not how. If the repair costs are approaching 75% of the price for a new, better machine, it doesn't make any sense. I'm leaning toward pointing them toward a new budget laptop, even if they're likely to drop it and break it too.

It might have made it easier to swallow if you could've taken the best of the two computers they have and combined them into one better working machine, but it sounds like you basically need to replace everything.

Yeah, best I can figure is both of them have HDDs that are on the way out (both have been dropped in the past, with the second laptop with a cracked screen).

The first laptop isn't in bad shape at all, other than needing a battery, new HDD/SSD, and more RAM. But with the labor costs for upgrades, it would cost nearly as much as a new Bay Trail craptop, so I hesitate to jump in and repair the older machine. There's probably a reason why they were "given" that laptop.

On the other hand, fixing up the first laptop, might end up with a better package than a brand-new craptop, given that it would end up with a 120GB SSD, and not a 500GB 5400RPM HDD (which is likely to be dropped in the future), the only issue would be the battery. But at least, it's replaceable. Newer craptops, don't have replaceable batteries, and generally not very replaceable HDDs either, unless you want to remove the motherboard.

http://www.notebookreview.com/notebookreview/dell-inspiron-e1505-review-pics-specs/

 

[Charlie98]

I had sort of the same dilemma with my 2 laptops... both in fine condition if not a little old. The older/better of the 2 (Dell 6000) had a PATA drive and a single core Pentium, the newer/lesser a SATA drive and a dual-core AMD. I chose to upgrade the AMD machine... faster processor, SSD, 2x2GB RAM (up from 512Mb) and W7. It still needs a battery, but for now it works on the charger. Cost-wise I probably should have just bought a new laptop and been done with it, but it really won't see any demanding use. The OS and, eventually, the battery are the real deal-breakers.

In your case I wouldn't bother with the dropped unit. As far as the serviceable unit... it depends on the customer's needs and purpose. If it's just a glorified browser, sure... fix it up. But if they are really going to be using it for something I would try to steer them towards a new/newer machine. W7 on 2GB still isn't very good, although the SSD would make the shortcoming a little less aggravating.

 

[VirtualLarry]

In your case I wouldn't bother with the dropped unit. As far as the serviceable unit... it depends on the customer's needs and purpose. If it's just a glorified browser, sure... fix it up. But if they are really going to be using it for something I would try to steer them towards a new/newer machine. W7 on 2GB still isn't very good, although the SSD would make the shortcoming a little less aggravating.

The first laptop, the one with 512MB RAM and Win7, is used for kids games pretty-much only.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/29/hp-stream-laptops-tablets/
This one might be kid-friendly, if it comes with 32GB eMMC. Still, that's not a lot to install games onto though.

Wow, batteries for these older laptops are cheap on the 'bay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4400mAh-Bat...26956?pt=Laptop_Batteries&hash=item3a92df8b8c

 

[dave_the_nerd]

The biggest problem there is an HDD with bad sectors.

 

[escrow4]

Build them a G1840 mini-ITX box:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157526

That is a 2014 quality mobo, add in a ~$25 Haswell celeron (admittedly at Microcentre):

http://www.microcenter.com/product/428533/Celeron_G1820_27GHz_LGA_1150_Boxed_processor

Add a stick of RAM and this mini-ITX case + PSU:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-231-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139026

and for around $250 you have a setup you actually want to use.

 

[mistersprinkles]

If this person is constantly dropping laptops, then laptops are not for them. My grandfather was the same way. Get them a desktop. It's big, heavy, and hard to drop. Steer them toward a $250-400 desktop machine. Take the laptops off their hands and sell them "as-is" on Ebay.

I would be charging $75 build and $75 OS/Software install for the new machine on top of the cost of parts/OS/monitor/etc.

Keep in mind you will also need (admittedly mediocre) speakers, mouse/keybo.

 

[Charlie98]

Wow, batteries for these older laptops are cheap on the 'bay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4400mAh-Bat...26956?pt=Laptop_Batteries&hash=item3a92df8b8c

That's the battery I need... I wonder how good it is? Sure beats $80!

 

[VirtualLarry]

If this person is constantly dropping laptops, then laptops are not for them. My grandfather was the same way. Get them a desktop. It's big, heavy, and hard to drop. Steer them toward a $250-400 desktop machine. Take the laptops off their hands and sell them "as-is" on Ebay.

I would be charging $75 build and $75 OS/Software install for the new machine on top of the cost of parts/OS/monitor/etc.

Keep in mind you will also need (admittedly mediocre) speakers, mouse/keybo.

That's a good point. I'll have to discuss budget with them. I don't think that they can afford $250-400. Maybe $200.

I also just realized that they use the webcam on the laptop with the cracked screen. Would have to get them a webcam too, I suppose.

 

[piasabird]

Laptops get damaged a lot from carrying it around all the time. Partly because they are heavy and bulky. I think it would depend what they used the laptop for. Maybe a cheap tablet would work better.

The worst part is there may be other damage on the hard drive or the charging controller. I can imagine working on the older laptop and then they come back saying it still doesn't work right. I don't own any laptops, but I know they are often in high demand. My daughter owned a couple of laptops that she wore out and then she bought a 10" tablet and a carrying case. Still works.

Some people might be better off with a fairly inexpensive desktop.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Oh yes, I mentioned to the client that they had "malware", and they were like, "What's 'malware'"?

I dunno, having "PC Speedup" and other such crap programs launch on startup, do their "scan", and then show you a "'Buy' to fix, or 'Close'" dialog. Did the user install that on purpose?

I once had a client that LIKED "Bonzi Buddy" and "WeatherBug".

 

[krnmastersgt]

For both rigs I recommend replacements, the first due to its hardware being so dated that upgrading it with legacy parts is costly and still going to be relatively slow. The second sounds like it has a lot going wrong from the physical abuse its sustained, broken screens aren't hard to replace but they can take time depending on the assembly. Not to mention its got busted ports and they likely damaged the drive, the parts and labor for that type of repair will likely cost more than the unit is worth.

 

[Yuriman]

Not sure if it's a factor, but a new laptop will probably have 8-12 hours of battery life rather than 1-3 even with a replaced battery.

 

[XavierMace]

]
The first laptop isn't in bad shape at all, other than needing a battery, new HDD/SSD, and more RAM. But with the labor costs for upgrades, it would cost nearly as much as a new Bay Trail craptop,

I for the life of me can't figure out how you can call Bay Trail crap, when you are talking about as a replacement for a Core 2 era system. Sure, they're no i3's, but neither is the Core 2 you're comparing them to. The battery life alone makes it worth the switch.

Do they really need a laptop? Your price list was at $200 without a battery. You can get a Venue Pro 8 for $200. An extra $50 will get you a 32Gb MicroSD card and case with Bluetooth keyboard. I'd take that in a heartbeat over a Core 2 era laptop. Quad Core, faster RAM, etc, etc.

 

[crashtech]

Pretty obviously goners if you ask me. If they can only afford $200 then they can barely patch one of those old dogs back together. My go-to for solid laptops on a budget is a used T420, something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thin...33317542?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item4d250133a6

Not to bad for a Sandy Bridge i5 Thinkpad, imo, and I can attest to their durability. But maybe the best thing is the cheap, plentiful parts.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I bought a DC5800 HP / Compaq refurb from Newegg recently. It has a 2.0Ghz Core2Duo (presumably an E2180), 2GB DDR2, 80 or 160GB HDD, Win7 (I think 64-bit), DVD-ROM.

That would probably fit into the client's budget, but I would probably have to offer a warranty (through me, since Newegg's warranty on this particular one was only 90 days).

(As an aside, I purchased two DC5800 units from Newegg, with a different listing, some months ago, and they were refurbed by "Joy Systems", and they came with a 1-year warranty through them.)

I could throw in a 19" Dell used LCD monitor as part of the deal.

 

[mistersprinkles]

I once had a client that LIKED "Bonzi Buddy" and "WeatherBug".

LOL I remember a similar situation when I lived in a small town (shudder). The hicks across the street got their first computer so they could use "thuh inturnett". First thing the mother did was install Bonzi buddy, because she had heard it was so cool. She was so proud she called me over to the computer to show me

"Look at'um 'ees like uh reeul pet ur sumfin'"

Btw she weighed like 500 thousand pounds. Classic trailer trash. Her favorite meal was a sandwich from Coffee Time. Literally, if you dipped a dunkin donuds in taint sweat and armpit stains and dragged it through a field strewn with 7 kinds of poop ranging from runny to soft to firm, you would get Coffee Time.

I'm being a little out of line but my point is that certain people should not have computers. Old people. Stupid people. sub-human people.

:hmm:

Definitely out of line for a technical forum. Consider this your warning.

mfenn
General Hardware Moderator

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm being a little out of line but my point is that certain people should not have computers. Old people. Stupid people. sub-human people.

:hmm:

Well, thankfully, my client is none of those things.

 

[Essence_of_War]

I'm being a little out of line but my point is that certain people should not have computers. Old people. Stupid people. sub-human people.

You are really something special, cupcake.

 

[Cerb]

I'm being a little out of line but my point is that certain people should not have computers. Old people. Stupid people. sub-human people.

:hmm:

Just stupid people. I do occasional side work for a couple old people, FI. Occasional stubborn PUPs being the worst of their problems (and those are usually grandchild-/niece-/nephew-related). Old people that are still all there in the head, and weren't dumb to start with, can adapt just fine, and even manage to handle newfangled smartphones and tablets better than most kids.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Just stupid people. I do occasional side work for a couple old people, FI. Occasional stubborn PUPs being the worst of their problems (and those are usually grandchild-/niece-/nephew-related). Old people that are still all there in the head, and weren't dumb to start with, can adapt just fine, and even manage to handle newfangled smartphones and tablets better than most kids.

I'm actually somewhat of a technology luddite myself. I don't own a tablet, and I barely use my smartphone for anything but phone calls.

 

[Cerb]

I don't own a tablet, and don't intend to, until they get good enough at a reasonable cost ("good enough" starts with a matte display, good digitizer, and learning handwriting recognition). But, I can use one . I use my phone for plenty, nowadays, often little things. Like, I see a new beer, and can, right there in the isle, go check out reviews. 4" high-PPI displays make it workable. Overall, I find the software being dumbed down is much more of a problem than the hardware, with the capability they have, now (what makes a netbook, or Windows tablet, 100x better than any Android tablet or iPad? Adblock and Noscript, dammit!).

 

[crashtech]

I recently went from a flip phone right to an LG G3, the rationale being that a smaller screen would not be useable to my middle-aged eyes. To tell the truth, I have found it somewhat addictive and can now begin to understand people that seem to be glued to them even at inappropriate times.

 

[mistersprinkles]

I'm actually somewhat of a technology luddite myself. I don't own a tablet, and I barely use my smartphone for anything but phone calls.

Lots of people don't own tablets. It's a personal choice. The form factor of the computer you use is not a reflection of your knowledge/comfort level with computing in general. As far as only using your phone for phone calls, that's a personal choice too.

I'm willing to bet you built your own PC though.