Question Computer is dead. What now?

[lakedude]

I would strongly recommend you finish troubleshooting before buying any more parts.

If you were going to buy an all new system this would not be necessary but since you are using your old parts you want to be sure those parts are good.

 

[manly]

I’m currently seeing the i5 12600k for 170 on new egg. Paired with a 120 dollar motherboard and some cheaper ram, I’ll be at 360 I think without tax. I’m happy with it. Just wondering if the i5 12600k is regarded as a decent CPU or is outdated by this point? As I said I really haven’t been involved in PC parts for 10 years so I’m really struggling to figure out what’s good these days

It's still a good CPU and will last you a while. But you don't have a Micro Center nearby?

Intel 14th gen is a joke, so 12th gen is not really two generations old. With 13th gen, Intel is throwing more E cores and much higher power draw to stay competitive with AMD.

Before buying all new parts on Newegg, try to see what's out there for a used Zen 3 or Zen 2 barebones (probably more likely the latter) if you still want to save money. Doesn't hurt to look.

 

[AustyPosty]

Well Intel is currently on 14th gen (14xxx) so the 12600K is 2 generations old at this point. It's still a decent CPU though. I would think it would age well, maybe not quite as well as your 4790 did depending on your use case for the next few years. What motherboard are you considering? And what CPU cooler? The stock Intel cooler isn't too good. So you might also need a $40 air cooler.

I already got a Noctua CPU cooler. It’s the giant one that’s brown and tan. Very appealing colors lol

 

[AustyPosty]

It's still a good CPU and will last you a while. But you don't have a Micro Center nearby?

Intel 14th gen is a joke, so 12th gen is not really two generations old. With 13th gen, Intel is throwing more E cores and much higher power draw to stay competitive with AMD.

Before buying all new parts on Newegg, try to see what's out there for a used Zen 3 or Zen 2 barebones (probably more likely the latter) if you still want to save money. Doesn't hurt to look.

Unfortunately the closest micro center is 300+ miles away…

 

[Tech Junky]

Intel 14th gen is a joke

Fixed that for ya.

They've been running the same tech for years and just keep renaming it and taking our money. At least PCIE 4 was only 2 gen and not worthwhile before 12th came along with PCIE 5. The hybrid cores are pretty useless and cause issues with some apps that can't figure out how to use them. Arrow Lake though converting to chiplets might be a breakthrough depending on what they do with the chipset when they release it.

I tend to take the best tech at the moment and not rely on either company to keep up with the other or the tech in itself. While they have a hand in the development typically they're not the only players in the game. I'm curious to see if Qualcomm releases a desktop SKU with their upcoming release. As for Apple / Google they're niche options mostly for mobile but Apple plays in both ponds.

 

[BoomerD]

Sorry, but that's terrible advice. Why is he exceeding his STATED budget by 60% to get a Haswell system and a graphics card he doesn't need?
He also gets to enjoy having a mystery motherboard.
Gotta have that RGB for 20% more FPS.

Ah crap....I missed the 4th gen cpu. I thought it was 10th.
Never mind.

 

[AustyPosty]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Z3W3Xk

This is the cheap upgrade I came up with. It’s about 350. I also included my CPU fan and GPU but I already own those so they don’t go towards my budget. Whaddya think?

 

[manly]

Fixed that for ya.

They've been running the same tech for years and just keep renaming it and taking our money. At least PCIE 4 was only 2 gen and not worthwhile before 12th came along with PCIE 5. The hybrid cores are pretty useless and cause issues with some apps that can't figure out how to use them. Arrow Lake though converting to chiplets might be a breakthrough depending on what they do with the chipset when they release it.

I tend to take the best tech at the moment and not rely on either company to keep up with the other or the tech in itself. While they have a hand in the development typically they're not the only players in the game. I'm curious to see if Qualcomm releases a desktop SKU with their upcoming release. As for Apple / Google they're niche options mostly for mobile but Apple plays in both ponds.

I'm not really sold on Intel these days, but they're somewhat bouncing back. At least they aren't still selling us 14nm+++++++ because Ryzen was kicking their ass. Zen 4 is way more efficient, but Intel's extra cores perform well in content creation aka productivity. It isn't just winning at BS synthetic benchmarks that have no relation to real world apps. Overall I don't think it's quite as bad as you say, unless you're referring to efficiency where they're lousy.

Historically AMD had always won in value (because they had to be cheaper), but now it's nearly a wash because Ryzen is so good and DDR5 isn't cheap enough.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Z3W3Xk

This is the cheap upgrade I came up with. It’s about 350. I also included my CPU fan and GPU but I already own those so they don’t go towards my budget. Whaddya think?

It seems okay-ish; AMD has been discounting in recent weeks, so I'm not thrilled about spending $350 on this combo.

Whatever you do, get a better PSU than that one. Apevia is a low end brand, and there are plenty of better options. Return it if it's within the return policy.

Actually, just found you a better deal at Newegg.
$100 - GIGABYTE B550 UD AC AM4 AMD B550 SATA 6Gb/s ATX Motherboard
$139 - AMD Ryzen 5 5600G - 100-100000252BOX

Combo savings -$20 so it's $219 in the shopping cart. The CPU offers a free 16GB RAM kit in the shopping cart! This promo could end soon, so don't wait.

The 5600G has strong reviews, but it seems like AMD rushed it to market so it is limited to older PCIe 3.0. Not an issue if you're keeping your old GPU for a while.

 

[lakedude]

I second Manly's CPU/MB/RAM new in box for $220, provided the rest of your parts are working and up to snuff.

Do you have an SSD or are you still running spinning HDs?

Happy to help you troubleshoot BTW.

 

[Tech Junky]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Z3W3Xk

This is the cheap upgrade I came up with. It’s about 350. I also included my CPU fan and GPU but I already own those so they don’t go towards my budget. Whaddya think?

I like to look forward a bit when dropping any significant money on tech. It will get you by while eyeing the next jump. For a few bucks more you could not worry about things for years.

Actually, just found you a better deal at Newegg.
$100 - GIGABYTE B550 UD AC AM4 AMD B550 SATA 6Gb/s ATX Motherboard
$139 - AMD Ryzen 5 5600G - 100-100000252BOX

This could be a decent option as well. Anything will be distinctly better than the 4th gen Intel though. So, if ~$300 gets you by for a couple of years or until you're ready to pull the trigger on your new overhaul with beefier GPU / CPU so be it. It's not a bad idea since there's some bigger leaps coming up EOY / next spring from both red and blue. X880 for AMD should be arriving this fall along with Zen 5 and Intel is ramping up to Arrow Lake w/ chiplets on board and of course yet another MOBO series. There aren't much for specs though on the AMD side as of yet but, there's an announcement coming up in the next couple of months that could shed some light on things or even be an early release before the traditional fall option.

 

[lakedude]

I like to look forward a bit when dropping any significant money on tech. It will get you by while eyeing the next jump. For a few bucks more you could not worry about things for years.

I think you are overestimating the amount of money the OP is willing or able to spend on this. The stated budget of $300 after 10 years tells you something.

To replace the entire rig and "future proof" it with modern equivalents would cost well over thousand dollars.

I just slapped together a mid spec rig with plenty compromises and it ran over $1300 and that was after trimming the 7800-3d down to a 7600X, settling for a non super non ti 4070 RTX, getting a cheap OS key off Kinguin and using an old PS. I could have bought a cheaper fan, RAM, and SSD.

 

[Tech Junky]

overestimating

Did you just stop there or read the other part below?

 

[AustyPosty]

Im slowly warming up to the idea of spending more. I mean I’ve been running the same stuff for 10 years so I think spending a bit on a pc now isn’t the worst thing. However I will save a bit of money since I already have a case, a GPU(for now, eventually I want a 4060 or 4070 or amd equivalent) and I have a CPU cooler, a few SSDs and HDDS.

I mean I figure whatever I get will be my next setup for at least 5 years. I feel like no matter what AMD and Intel will both have new CPU chipsets so either way it would be a new motherboard.


Im really thinking a new motherboard, an i5 12600k and 16-32gb of ram, then later on a 4060 or 4070 would be a good upgrade to last for at least 5 years for 1080p high graphics 60 fps gaming

 

[Tech Junky]

16-32gb of ram

This brings an option as well. DDR4 vs DDR5. 5 obviously will be around and relevant as 4 starts to fade a bit, Prices are about the same as 4 when 5 was released which takes some of the sting out of it. With Intel you can choose either with current CPU/MOBO models but you have to pick one or the other. AMD AM5 will be DRR5 only as they decided to just rip the bandaid off and keep it simple.

CPU chipsets so either way it would be a new motherboard.

True, but, AM5 is to be around for at least a few years vs every other year swapping with Intel. 12600K will work with 690/790/890 boards and there are slight differences in the options that each provide baked into the chipset for each. I took my 12700K and stuck it into a 790 board and it just worked like it's supposed to.

Some of the early hype about DDR5 has faded as the UEFI updates have cleared up most of the pains that were seen early on. System boot times are ~10 seconds or less just like 4.

GPUs are just as bad as CPUs though when it comes to turnover / churn to the next model annually and not really progressing much at this point other than using more power and creating more heat. There are some hints though coming from AMD this year and Intel GPUs soon as well. If laptops offered a DIY setup I wouoldnt give NVIDIA a dime.

 

[lakedude]

GPUs are ... using more power and creating more heat.

How do you figure? I suppose if you go by model number you have a bit of a point but if you look at performance the RTX 4070 is roughly equivalent to the RTX 3080 but the 4070 draws far less power.

The OP's 980ti draws way more power than the RTX 4060ti he is considering but the the 4060ti is a huge upgrade in performance even as it it is 2 models lower (from 80 to 60).

 

[Tech Junky]

@lakedude

Graphics Card Power Consumption and Efficiency Tested

We tested over fifty graphics cards to see which give the best performance per watt.

www.tomshardware.com

List of Desktop GPUs by power consumption

www.eatyourbytes.com

3080 320W / 4070 200W / TI 285W / 980 not even listed

So, if you go with the bottom of the barrel SKU for a particular GPU you might be more efficient but, there's aa ladder of SKUs for each model.

Let's take the 4070 example....

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Specs

NVIDIA AD104, 2475 MHz, 5888 Cores, 184 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 12288 MB GDDR6X, 1313 MHz, 192 bit

www.techpowerup.com

There are 95 different options that are mostly slightly different.

Comparing the 980TI / 4070 saves 50W https://bestvaluegpu.com/comparison/geforce-gtx-980-ti-vs-geforce-rtx-4070/
4060TI saves 40W over 4070 - https://bestvaluegpu.com/comparison/geforce-rtx-4060-ti-vs-geforce-rtx-4070/
3080 120W+ than 4070 - https://bestvaluegpu.com/comparison/geforce-rtx-3080-vs-geforce-rtx-4070/

Looking through the PCP site there's some questionable 500mhz higher clock rates for a couple of cards that if they're all built on the same design shouldn't be outliers... https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=550&sort=price&page=1

Anyway.... there are a lot of different influences on efficiency. More W's = more heat. On the laptop side there are larger variances from say 35W to full 140W options with the same series number.

 

[lakedude]

TechJ your links prove my point.

If the OP is concerned with performance per watt (which he is because of his PS) then the latest generation offers the best performance per watt, period.

Looking up the power draw on a 980ti:

"The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti draws power from 1x 6-pin + 1x 8-pin power connector, with power draw rated at 250W"

Meanwhile the 4060ti he is considering draws 160W, while being faster and cheaper. Win win win!

 

[AustyPosty]

I’m troubleshooting my PSU with a tester, it shows I’m getting proper voltage and the fan spins. However as soon as I plug in a VGA cable it shuts off, both the meter and the PSU. Is the cable bad or the PSU as well? Very weird

 

[lakedude]

I’m troubleshooting my PSU with a tester, it shows I’m getting proper voltage and the fan spins. However as soon as I plug in a VGA cable it shuts off, both the meter and the PSU. Is the cable bad or the PSU as well? Very weird View attachment 95608

Are you sure your GPU is good?

Can your system run on MB graphics without a video card or do you have another video card?

Couldn't hurt to inspect the cable but you had the same issues with 2x power supplies. Did you reuse the cables?

 

[AustyPosty]

Are you sure your GPU is good?

Can your system run on MB graphics without a video card or do you have another video card?

Couldn't hurt to inspect the cable but you had the same issues with 2x power supplies. Did you reuse the cables?

You’re right… I did have the same issue with a brand new PSU and new cables. no start as well. I assumed it was the MB. I didn’t try to start it with integrated graphics. (Assuming the i7 4790k has them). In my frustration I don’t think the MOBO is good anymore. I sorta yanked the power plug out of it and bent the pins(I know pretty idiotic)… is there any way other way I can test the GPU to see if it’s working? Can the GPU cause a pc not to start at all?



If not, then I guess I’ll have to find out by plugging it into a new MOBO.I’m not totally heartbroken if it is dead, ir just sucks I was planning on saving the 980 for a future cheap build for my wife

 

[lakedude]

A GPU would not ordinarily be my first guess as a cause for a no start but it certainly can be a cause, especially for your blue screen issues preceeding the no starts. Hey, smell your GPU and see if it smells hot/burned.

Got another GPU or a friend with an old card you can borrow?

I could send you a GT240 for just the cost of shipping. I'm not big on buying or selling used so i don't really have an online market reputation. Igor might vouch for me.

Do you have a buddy who is into computers? Such folks are typically willing to help and have used junk laying around that might help.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Igor might vouch for me.

Yes I do

 

[manly]

Igor might vouch for me.

Yes I do

Is this good or bad?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Is this good or bad?

Definitely good

 

[igor_kavinski]

By the way, while the OP is trying to troubleshoot his system, he might warm up to the idea of these components: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/

That should set him up for being all ready for the Windows 12 AI PC revolution that's supposed to happen later in 2024.