Computer for Digital Art

[2112Rush]

Hi All,

I just joined and was wondering what any of the digital artists use for their work. I know Macs are the preferred way to go, but I'm only doing this in my free time. Not professionally so I'm going to try and build one. I have Corel Painter IX, Corel Draw, Photoshop6, Bryce, Blender, and Poser.

I'm a PC noob and have never even tried to build one before. I've heard it's not too difficult.

I know I'll need:

A fast processor - I'd like to go with a Pentium dual core.

Lots of memory - I guess the standard DDR2.

Graphics card - PC Mag says the XLR8 8800GTS is the best all around chip for the money.
(That was as of Oct '07)

A big hard drive.

I could add a CD and DVD drives later.

I don't need a monitor, speakers, OS (I have XP Home), mouse, keyboard or a great sound card.

I'd like to keep it around $700 - $1,000 if possible.

I'm in the US and will get my parts from the place I can get them the cheapest. Unless someone has a specific place that is best. I've heard that Fry's and Newegg have sales and you can get good deals on some things.

In PC Magazine's Oct. '07 issue they built one which had:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 - $200
Gigabyte P35-DS3R - $175
Kingston HyperX 2GB PC2-6400 - $130
PNY XLR8 8800GTS - $300
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB - $79

It has other components which bring the total to around $1,800.

Would this be a good system to build or do I need better components?

Most of the build I've seen are for gaming. I don't see too many for digital art.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[MarcVenice]

Easy enough, for 1000$. The only thing I'm unsure about is if any of those applications will benefit from a dedicated videocard, like a firegl, but those are out of your price range anyways. If this isn't going to be used for gaming, you won't need a high-end videocard either though, pretty much anything with 512mb of vram will suffice. I think you will benefit greatly from a qaudcore though, especially when overclocked to 3.0ghz, which isn't hard to do at all. As for the motherboard, do you need firewire, to hook up a camera or something ?

Otherwise, let's just start of with snakemans builds you mentioned yourself.

CPU: do you have a microcenter nearby ? http://i76.photobucket.com/alb...urarsx/microcenter.jpg you should go pick up one of those 200$ q6600's ASAP !!!

http://www.buy.com/prod/corsai...loc/101/205852646.html PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231122 RAM, yes, with a 32bit OS you will see only 3.2gb or so, but the more the merrier for the applications you use.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128059 mobo, might have to get a more expensive one depending on your needs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822152052 HD: I'd get this one, cool and quiet running, plenty of space. Which you'll need for your work.

This only totals out at roughly 600$ before shipping. 550$ if you can get a q6600 at microcenter. You need a case, don't you ? When it comes to cases, it's best to rank silence, looks and cooling from most to least important, so we can give suggestions. Now, you also need a videocard, and we are still WAY below budget, even if we throw in a 100$ case, which should be quite doable. Now, if you want to game a little, there's TONS of options.

Starting of with the HD 3850 512mb, can be had for 170$ right now, but prices will be dropping for sure. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814103051
Then, there's the new 9600GT for 180$, definately worth the extra 10$, because it trades blows with the HD3850's bigger brother, the HD 3870. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130328
The HD3870 costs 5 more, and is in general a weeee bit faster then the 9600gt, although I'm not 100$ positive on this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102719
Last but not least, the 8800gt: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127329 it's 10% faster then the HD3870, but also a little more expensive.

All of these cards are pretty solid gaming cards and won't dissapoint. AMD has just announced pricecuts on the HD3850 and HD3870 cards though, and I think we'll be seeing 150$ HD3850 512mb cards soon! Now, there's 2 options, either go with 1 of these cards, or go with a cheap 50$ dollar card, anything in between is NOT worth it. I mean, 100$ cards are like 2-3 times slower then the HD3850 512mb card. Whatever you do, even with a gaming videocard, you will still be below 1000$. Mission accomplished ? Perhaps look into getting Vista 64x, so you can utilize 4gb of ram. Hell, for your applications, 8gb might actually be nice, so if you get vista 64x, and 2x2gb of ram, and you see your ram gets maxed out, you can always add another 2x2gb.

 

[wwswimming]

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2157570&enterthread=y

check out this thread about the DS3R, if it's the same one. the 4 pin
power connector might be in an inconvenient location.

 

[2112Rush]

Marc, thanks for the suggetstions.

Unfortunately I don't have a Microcenter here in CT.

I was thinking about a quad core but heard they are actually 2 duo cores and not really 4 core. If that made any sense. And no, I don't need firewire. At least I think I don't. I don't even know what it is. I don't need to hook up a camera. Do you mean a web cam or digital camera? Just a scanner, printer and maybe a digital camera.

As far as a case, I' like it to be quiet if possible. It will probably need to be cooled if I will be over clocking and looks aren't really an issue.

On one of the reviews for the memory it says it's not great for over clocking and doesn't like to run faster than 100MHhz. Would that be a problem?

How much of a difference is there between the DS3R and the DS3L?

In one review for the DS3L it says if you're gonna over clock, you must provide active cooling and should change the heatsinks #2 - the BIOS doesn't provide detail memory timing changes.
Is that a major problem and could a first time builder change the heat sinks easily?

Again a review for the HD says that Samsung are sending people used ones. Have you ever heard of this? Is this a big issue? They also said they'd go with Hitatchi. Are they just as good?

I do like that last video card you put up. I don't think I'll do much gaming at all so if I don't really need to get that one I could definitely go cheaper. It is tempting though.

Does Vista 64x utilize 8 gb of ram? I'm not sure what you mean by adding more. Does that mean I'll have four slots and I use 2x2gb? Then use the other 2 for more to equal 8gb.

Thanks again for the help. And sorry for the stupid questions. I must sound like an idiot. :laugh:

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: 2112Rush
On one of the reviews for the memory it says it's not great for over clocking and doesn't like to run faster than 100MHhz. Would that be a problem?

If you mean 1000MHz, then no, that'll give you loads and loads of headroom to overclock; your motherboard will likely crap out before 500MHz before the memory does.

Originally posted by: 2112Rush
How much of a difference is there between the DS3R and the DS3L?

The DS3R has onboard RAID and more SATA ports, amongst a few other small differences:
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Pro...ew.aspx?ProductID=2626
and
http://tw.giga-byte.com/Produc...ew.aspx?ProductID=2599

Originally posted by: 2112Rush
In one review for the DS3L it says if you're gonna over clock, you must provide active cooling and should change the heatsinks #2 - the BIOS doesn't provide detail memory timing changes.
Is that a major problem and could a first time builder change the heat sinks easily?

I hear that about boards quite often but the reality is that unless you're pushing the FSB much past 400MHz, passive cooling is fine providing you've got decent case flow. My gigabyte board uses passive chipset cooling and I've a side-window fan blowing straight onto it.

Originally posted by: 2112Rush
Does Vista 64x utilize 8 gb of ram? I'm not sure what you mean by adding more. Does that mean I'll have four slots and I use 2x2gb? Then use the other 2 for more to equal 8gb.

Vista x64 will see all 8GB, yes. You can fill the first two DIMM slots with 2GB sticks for 4GB, then you've got another two free for another 4GB should you so desire.

Originally posted by: 2112Rush
Thanks again for the help. And sorry for the stupid questions. I must sound like an idiot. :laugh:

You don't sound like an idiot. Firstly, we get these build threads all the time and if we didn't like them we'd not bother replying! Secondly, your thread is one of the better on this topic.

Originally posted by: 2112Rush
I was thinking about a quad core but heard they are actually 2 duo cores and not really 4 core. If that made any sense.

I know what you mean, but those that tell you that criticism must forget that 2x2=4! AMD have released "native" quad core but frankly their offerings at the high end leave a lot to be desired. Even if the Intel Quad cores are infact two dual-core chips on one die, they still do the job as if they were "native" quad.

 

[DSF]

The Q6600 is two dual cores slapped together, but that's basically irrelevant. It still has four cores, and does very well with multithreaded applications.

As far as the DS3L being unable to set advanced memory timings, whoever wrote that in the review didn't read the owner's manual. It plainly says that to enable the advanced options you have to push Ctrl+F1. I own a DS3L, and I can most certainly access all the timings. Always take Newegg reviews with a grain of salt for two reasons. First, people who have problems are more motivated to write a review than people who don't. Second, far too many people who write those reviews could've solved the problem easily if they read the manual or knew how to troubleshoot.

As far as the 100MHz issue, if it was written in the Newegg reviews I didn't see it. As Roguestar said, are you sure it didn't say 1000MHz? With a Q6600 you won't need to operate this RAM over DDR-800, and it will do that without any problems at all.

 

[MarcVenice]

Roguestar pretty much summed it up. I'll explain about the ram. The ram likes to run 1:1 with the FSB of the CPU. The speed a CPU runs at is made up out of the fsb, multiplied by the 'multiplier'. In the case of a e8400, that's 9. It has a stock FSB of 333, 9*333= 3.0ghz. So if you crank the FSB to 400, meaning the ram runs at 800mhz, then the e8400 runs at 3.6ghz. Yes, 400mhz FSB means the ram runs at 800mhz, long story, but that's how it is. Now, the gskill will run at 1000mhz, if you loosen the timings and/or slightly up the voltage. Meaning you can run an FSB of 500, 9*500 = 4.5ghz, you won't be able to do that anyways, so it's plenty high. 9*450 is more realistic. You could spend 20$ more on the ram and get this instead: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231145

If you want quietness, with decent cooling, I'd say p180 rev 1.1 or p182. Those are the same cases, but have a 'slightly' different name. Sometimes they can be had for 90-110$ AR. Look around. The DS3L will be just fine for overclocking btw, there's TONS of people here with ds3l's and they are overclocking their cpu's just fine. Samsung sending used HD's ? I call bullshit, that's just against the law as far as I know and I haven't heard about it at all. Hitachi, Western Digital, all are just fine too if you feel creeped out about Samsung, but that would be a sad thing.

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Roguestar pretty much summed it up.

I'll send you the bill on monday .

 

[MarcVenice]

How about I send it back on tuesday ?

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
How about I send it back on tuesday ?

Now that he's about to be a bigshot mod he thinks he doesn't have to pay the bills. :roll:

 

[Roguestar]

Abuse of power! Omgwtfmodhax! :laugh:

Edit: so apparently "" isn't an emoticon. Fair enough.

 

[2112Rush]

What about the problems wwswimming mentioned about the 4 pin power connector? Is that going to cause any issues with any of the components I might get? Or would I have to wait until I get them? Can a MB be returned if need be or do they only take it back if it's broken?

I'll make a list later of the components and see what you guys think.

Rougestar, I know what you mean about getting the same questions all the time. On one of the other boards I'm on I see it all the time. It does get a little old when the same questions are being asked by newbies. I just don't have that much knowledge about computers and am trying not to ask too many basic questions that should be easily known.


Thanks again

 

[MarcVenice]

Hehe being accused of something I'm not even sure of becoming

Rush, the 4 pin power connector shouldn't be a problem. As for the same questions, it is appreciated when people figure out something by themselfs before they ask, pretty much like you looked up snake's his thread.

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: 2112Rush
Rougestar, I know what you mean about getting the same questions all the time. On one of the other boards I'm on I see it all the time. It does get a little old when the same questions are being asked by newbies. I just don't have that much knowledge about computers and am trying not to ask too many basic questions that should be easily known.


Thanks again

Well, the difference is that you have done a bit of reading and gave us a lot of information about your needs presented in a easy-to-read way and listened to and commented on feedback. It's not nearly as rewarding when someone posts a massive block of text and then argues with people when they make suggestions! There are always decent and mediocre posts, we're not about to go away just because of the latter .

 

[DSF]

For your use, the DS3L would be just as effective as the DS3R.

If the DS3R 4-pin placement were really that much of an issue, we'd have heard more about it by now. The DS3L isn't quite as tight a fit, if that makes you feel any better.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: DSF
For your use, the DS3L would be just as effective as the DS3R.

If the DS3R 4-pin placement were really that much of an issue, we'd have heard more about it by now. The DS3L isn't quite as tight a fit, if that makes you feel any better.

Great board. I run mine with XP64 and 4 X 2 Gb sticks... no stability problems at all.

 

[2112Rush]

Thanks for the comment Rougestar. I'm trying to be as little of a bother as I can.

Rudder, are saying you can get 8gb of ram with XP? I have no problems with XP Home but have heard nothing good about Vista. Do I really need Vista or can I get by with XP64?

What are the opinions on the G.Skill memory? PC Mag suggested Kingston Hyper X. They say they like their reliability and will pay for it.

http://www.nextag.com/kingston...pc2_-_6400/search-html

That looks to be the same one they used. In Oct '07 they paid $130 for it. Has memory dropped that much since then? It's still twice the price of the G Skill though.

 

[2112Rush]

Here's the possible list:

http://www.nextag.com/GA_-_P35_-_DS3L/search-html - Mobo

http://www.buy.com/prod/corsai...loc/101/205852646.html - PSU

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822152052 - HD

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16820231145- RAM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127329 - Video Card

http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...=NEXTAG&CMP=EMC-NEXTAG - Processor

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/sku...8&CartID=done&nextloc= - Case

What is the difference between the P180 and the P182? There is only a $4 price difference. Should I go with the 182?

What do you think? I'm around $940 without shipping. I was planning on buying one piece a week so if I go a little over $1,000 it won't be a huge deal.

Are all these components compatible with one another? And will they fit in the case no problem? If I went with this setup would I find any surprises.

There was a link to a video tutorial for putting a rig together and it looked pretty simple so I'm hoping things will be that way. Although with my luck nothing ever turns out the way it should. :laugh:

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Nothing wrong with Vista64... I dunno what you've been reading, but it's been smooth sailing for me. All my programs work, performance is fine, Aero looks great, UAC is turned off. For 64-Bit, XP is worse then Vista.

For 8GB of RAM, i do believe these are the droids you are looking for $120

The offer above has a combo with the 9600GT, which performs close to, but not as well as, the 8800GT.

But I would rather go with this:

corsair is win $75 AR

Oh, and you should get the P182. Both are rather massive, though, so everything should fit.

You are pretty much set

 

[2112Rush]

Just about everything I read about Vista and people using it say they don't like it. But I've never used a computer that has it so I can't whether it's good or bad. I guess I'll find out when I install it.

How is the reliability of the Corsair compared to the Kingston? The video card I chose plus the Corsair is the same price as the Kingston/ECGA combo you linked to. The 8800 GT is a better card but then I have to get the Corsair.

Is memory failure a big deal? I have some stuff from Comp USA in my current computer and have had no problems with it. How does the memory fail? What happens when it does? Any major damage or things just don't work right?

 

[2112Rush]

I just ordered the P182 and the Q6600. There's no turning back now. :laugh:

 

[2112Rush]

In that video tutorial they have two hard drives. The guy says one is for the OS and the other for storage. If I take my 80gb HD from my old computer and use it in my new one would it work? I'd like to keep it since it's only about 1/3 full. Then I can partition it and install Vista 64 on the new partition. This way if I don't like it for whatever reason, I have XP to use. Plus I won't have to do a clean install of Vista. I've read that it's better to do a clean install then go on top the old OS. Also I won't have to worry about transferring anything to the new computer. Plus I get more storage space. Would that work or am I missing something?

 

[Roguestar]

XP-x64 is a terrible abomination. Don't give it the time of day; go straight for Vista x64 which is a properly finished and polished operating system. I use Vista x64 every day and I'm really happy with it.

 

[2112Rush]

I meant my XP Home that I use now. If I or my wife didn't like the way Vista worked for everyday computing, we could use XP. For the digital art I would have to use it. Would I have any issues running both on one system?

 

[Roguestar]

Nah, you can dual-boot just fine so long as you have them installed on different drives.