Component feed vs. Composite feed????

[redgtxdi]

So I'm on an analog CRT (Sony 36" WEGA) and recently went to DVR and the guy just hooked it up w/ composite cables since they were there.

I picked up some free component cables from the local cable office & hooked 'em up. Wow..........dare I say there's a noticeable difference!?!

I can't hook both audios, but I can hook both video feeds at the same time & I notice that component really seems to soften pics up. Yes, composite has jaggies, but also definitely a sharper image.

Wondering if it's because my TV's analog?? DVR digital??

I suppose I could get used to it, but I'm seriously considering going back to composite.

 

[Philippine Mango]

Try out s-video, see where that lies.. If the S-video looks better than the composite (which it should) and the component, use that instead.. BTW you don't need 'component' cables as any rca cables will do just fine...

 

[redgtxdi]

Ya, I didn't mean to say that it was the 'cables' per se, but the input/output.

I didn't know if the 'softening' was due to

#1.) The video being split into 3 feeds on component vs. 1 on composite,

#2.) Or if it was more a function of the DVR's output using some type of softening algorithm

#3.) Or the same thing happening on the input of my TV.

Don't have the option of S-video right now 'cuz I don't have a cable for it right now.

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Ya, I didn't mean to say that it was the 'cables' per se, but the input/output.

I didn't know if the 'softening' was due to

#1.) The video being split into 3 feeds on component vs. 1 on composite,

#2.) Or if it was more a function of the DVR's output using some type of softening algorithm

#3.) Or the same thing happening on the input of my TV.

Don't have the option of S-video right now 'cuz I don't have a cable for it right now.

I think what you should do is put it in component mode and then increase the sharpness on the TV to full, see if that alleviates the issue. The reason there would be little to no sharpness on the TV by default is because lower quality sources such as composite look bad with full sharpness cause of the graininess and other artifacts. You don't have to increase the sharpness on the tv to full but do it enough to see if it fixes the issue. I remember something similar with my TV when I first go it..

 

[redgtxdi]

Good recommendation!

That actually helped a bit. Not quite the sharpness of the same signal in composite, but minus the jaggies, so about a good middle-road compromise.

I still have my old dvd player running off composite, but it has an Svideo out, so maybe I'll try Svideo for the dvd player & see how Svideo compares.

P.S. I went from about 40% sharpness on composite to about 75% sharpness on component to achieve similar detail.

 

[Howard]

Maybe the noise is making the image seem sharper.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

It's the jaggies that some people interperate as a sharper picture. Don't know why but after 15 years in retail electronics it is undeniable that some people look at an analog picture with all kinds of noise and swear that the pic is sharper... even when compared to HD.

The component video hook up should look 1000% better. Even on an analog set.

 

[Excelsior]

Use component but try to calibrate your set.

 

[krotchy]

Ok, here is the breakdown of the Y-Pb-Pr protocols:

The Y channel is the luminance or black-white/brightness channel. This is where the detail is mainly held.
Pb/Pr = Chrominance channels, they are a differentiation of colors. These can typically be subsampled lower without major loss of detail. This is why 4:2:2 sampling is generally used for transmission over 4:4:4, since the detail loss is nearly unnoticeable. Even 4:2:0 is pretty acceptible.

Composite: Y-Pb-Pr signals all 60 degrees out of phase from each other within a single line. This does not actually contain enough bandwidth to reproduce a full 720x486i NTSC picture. However since VHS doesnt have the bandwidth either, they fit together well.
S-Video:Y has a dedicated Y Channel. The Chrominance channels are both broadcast over a 2nd line 90 degrees orthogonal to each other. This has the bandwidth roughly acceptable to producing a well formed 480p picture, but nothing HD.
Component: All 3 channels have their own dedicated line. The bandwidth of these is nearly limitless as long as the loss/input characteristics are proper. Full 1080p resolution is supported.

All 3 of these systems are analog, and all carry the same information. The difference is there is no combination of signals in component and less in s-video. Composite has each channel interfering with itself.

If you think that composite is providing better picture than component, either your source video is bad, and the noise caused by composite cables is producing an unknown sharpening effect, or perhaps your TV has broken component inputs?

Odds are the softening you are perceiving is the increased detail revealing much more compression noise from the broadcast mechanisms used. Most people are not immediately akin to MPEG noise, although I can see it almost discretely as it is my job to. If you feel composite is better than component, you might just be preferring the analog noise caused by overlapping signals. However to get the detail you are meant to see, Component is the better option, especially for high definition broadcasts.

 

[redgtxdi]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
It's the jaggies that some people interperate as a sharper picture. Don't know why but after 15 years in retail electronics it is undeniable that some people look at an analog picture with all kinds of noise and swear that the pic is sharper... even when compared to HD.

The component video hook up should look 1000% better. Even on an analog set.

It's a little less arbitrary than that.

Signal Source
Destination

Quality of Source
Quality of Destination

Analog fed to analog, analog converted to digital back to analong, digital unconverted, then fed to analog.......etc. etc.

And the quality of all points involved........including feed.

 

[krotchy]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Analog fed to analog, analog converted to digital back to analong, digital unconverted, then fed to analog.......etc. etc.

And the quality of all points involved........including feed.

Im a little curious what you mean by this, considering Component and Composite are both purely analog feeds.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: krotchy

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Analog fed to analog, analog converted to digital back to analong, digital unconverted, then fed to analog.......etc. etc.

And the quality of all points involved........including feed.

Im a little curious what you mean by this, considering Component and Composite are both purely analog feeds.

Feeding through a DVR might introduce another ADA conversion if it's an "always recording" style - the channels might also be broadcast digitally if the cableco goes about it that way.

- M4H

 

[redgtxdi]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: krotchy

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Analog fed to analog, analog converted to digital back to analong, digital unconverted, then fed to analog.......etc. etc.

And the quality of all points involved........including feed.

Im a little curious what you mean by this, considering Component and Composite are both purely analog feeds.

Feeding through a DVR might introduce another ADA conversion if it's an "always recording" style - the channels might also be broadcast digitally if the cableco goes about it that way.

- M4H

QF...exact..T!!!

I'm satisfied with increased sharpness in component, so next test is DVDplayer on Svideo. Stay tuned.

 

[Viper GTS]

IIRC from my Wega CRT days the component inputs bypass the TV's processing (Comb filter at least, perhaps more).

They're not being processed the same, you're probably just used to the other.

Link for you

Viper GTS

 

[redgtxdi]

Thanks Viper. That's exactly what I suspected.


I was glad to see that increasing sharpness didn't increase any noise/artifacts in the picture while using component hookups.

The Sony does do a good job filtering via composite, but I think I've got the set dialed in well where it is right now.

Besides...........the $500 42" 1080p/quadruple-HDMI 2.0 plasma is only a year or two away anyhow......