Competitive Olympic Weight Lifting

[the DRIZZLE]

Recently I was bored and starting looking up the records for Olympic weight lifting. I was looking at the 77kg (170lb) division because thats close to my weight. I was surprised to see that the weights aren't that high, at least compared to what you see in powerlifting. For example, the 77kg division record for the clean and jerk is 207.5 kg (457lbs). Thats a lot of weight, but theres lots of youtube videos of high school kids power cleaning 300+ (with terrible form). Is it that much harder to clean in the 400 range than the 300? Or is it the jerk thats the hard part?

 

[HN]

here's josh everett, ~185lbs
c & j 155kg (~341lbs) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXothRwExFg

that sht doesn't look easy at all and he's strong as heck.

 

[Koing]

Yes theres a HUGE difference from 180-190kg C&J for a 77Kg lifter in 'competition'. You have to 'make weight'. 78-79kg makes a HUGE difference if you don't have to cut for some lifters that are lean as f0ck already.

PC 300lbs is cake after 3-5yrs training. It's getting it over head properly that is the issue. You can't 'press it out'. Has to go over head in one smooth movement.

190-200 is a big difference. You will see maybe 2-3-4 guys C&J 205kg+ at the World Championships for a 77kg guy! One dude (Korean) Cleaned 212kg but failed to Jerk it.

Weights aren't as high in PowerLifting as the lift is more complicated and technical so you won't be able to shift as much weight. There are limits to how fast you can move and how powerful you can get per given bodyweight. Olifters will squat big numbers but few will ever C&J even 2.5x

400lb ~180kg range isn't that hard for an elite level lifter it's the Jerk part that is to steady the weight over head.

There have been 3 people in the history of weightlifting that have C&J 3x bodyweight over head in competition!

The video of Josh was a bad ass split Clean! An even more sick Jerk recovery!

It isn't easy to stack on 120-140lbs on to your C&J and not gain any weight!

Koing

 

[the DRIZZLE]

here's josh everett, ~185lbs
c & j 155kg (~341lbs) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXothRwExFg

that sht doesn't look easy at all and he's strong as heck.

I never said it was easy. I asked why the records aren't higher when it seems like so many amateurs can clean almost as much weight with terrible form.

 

[brikis98]

Many reasons:

1. Most of the youtube videos I've seen of 300+lb power cleans have been by either competitive lifters (not world class, but not amateurs either) or folks over 170lbs.

2. A power clean is only half the lift. Getting it overhead with a jerk gets incredibly difficult with heavy weights.

3. The differences in powerlifting numbers are more exaggerated because, depending on the powerlifting federation, all sorts of gear is used (squat suits can add several hundred pounds to your squat), rampant steroid use (o-lifting has it too, but there is much more testing), and different movement requirements (e.g. what "parallel" means in a squat).

4. What may seem like a "small" separation in some sports is actually enormous. The 457lb world record C&J is 150lbs greater than the 300lb power cleans you see on Youtube, a difference of over 50%. This is HUGE compared to other sports, such as sprinting. The 100m word record is 9.58 seconds by Usain Bolt. Compare this to the numerous high schoolers out there that can run 100m in 10.58 seconds. The 1 second difference - some 10% - may seem tiny, but in sprinting, it is the difference between a world class athlete and a no-name amateur. It gets exponentially harder to cut off every tenth of a second in sprinting below a certain threshold (~10s); similarly, it gets exponentially harder to add another 5lbs to your C&J above a certain threshold (~350lb).

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I never said it was easy. I asked why the records aren't higher when it seems like so many amateurs can clean almost as much weight with terrible form.

Firstly, those individuals who only power clean could not squat clean for crap. Secondly, like Koing said, it's not the clean that's the limiting factor. It's the jerk.

A full squat clean requires good motor coordination, form, flexibility, timing, etc. Those amateurs don't require most of that. With bad form, they can have poor motor coordination and just muscle it up. Ask them to perform a full ROM squat clean and the weight they can use will drop by half.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Thanks guys for the informative answers.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Firstly, those individuals who only power clean could not squat clean for crap. Secondly, like Koing said, it's not the clean that's the limiting factor. It's the jerk.

A full squat clean requires good motor coordination, form, flexibility, timing, etc. Those amateurs don't require most of that. With bad form, they can have poor motor coordination and just muscle it up. Ask them to perform a full ROM squat clean and the weight they can use will drop by half.

Really? I thought that in theory you can clean more weight in a squat clean than a power clean. Isn't that the reason real o-lifters use the full clean in the first place?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Really? I thought that in theory you can clean more weight in a squat clean than a power clean. Isn't that the reason real o-lifters use the full clean in the first place?

For individuals who are inflexible and more uncoordinated than Olympic lifters, it is more difficult since they haven't learned the lift. If you have experience with the Olympic lifts, the full squat clean allows you to under the bar easier. You have to have that experience though. Go power clean 135 pounds. Then go squat clean it. Although both develop power, the squat clean is a much different beast.

 

[brikis98]

Squatting under the weight means you don't have to pull it as high to get it on your shoulders. This will allow you to clean more weight assuming:

1. Your (deep) front squat is stronger than your power clean
2. You have the technique and speed to pull yourself under the bar into a full squat a split second after bringing yourself to full extension

Amateurs tend to suck at #2 - and if they don't squat often, #1 as well - so they power clean more than they full clean.

 

[gramboh]

The guys power cleaning 300+ with awful form are not likely in the 77kg weight class. The dudes around 400# are big football players (250#+) so you would have to compare them to the SHW (105+KG) class where the C&J WR is closer to 267kg (can't remember all the records right now), aka 580#. And as said, HUGE huge huge diff from a 138 power clean to a 205kg C&J in competition. Also, the guys with awful PC form could probably not snatch 60kg, other than a muscle snatch.

 

[bommy261]

a 400 lb clean and jerk is absolutely insane. a 400 lb bench is nothing in comparison to a C&J of that magnitude. cleaning 400 lbs is very doable, the huge difficulty is getting it over your head.

Olympic lifting is far harder than regular powerlifting. the squat, deadlift, and bench can be learned in a reasonable form in a month or 2. hell, i've been power cleaning for 8 years and i still have yet to master it. never learned the jerk because i don't have a O lifting gym around me. I would love to learn the snatch and C&F though, eventually. Nothing builds explosiveness better than O lifting. nothing.

 

[Koing]

a 400 lb clean and jerk is absolutely insane. a 400 lb bench is nothing in comparison to a C&J of that magnitude. cleaning 400 lbs is very doable, the huge difficulty is getting it over your head.

Olympic lifting is far harder than regular powerlifting. the squat, deadlift, and bench can be learned in a reasonable form in a month or 2. hell, i've been power cleaning for 8 years and i still have yet to master it. never learned the jerk because i don't have a O lifting gym around me. I would love to learn the snatch and C&F though, eventually. Nothing builds explosiveness better than O lifting. nothing.

Doable for who?!

I would say at least 70-80% of people that trained for the rest of their lives would NOT be able to Clean 400lbs if their life depended on it in 5-10yrs time...

But yes 400lb C&J is ridiuclous and you won't meet many guys that could do it. Bench 400lbs is A LOT but you will see more people that do it then don't do it.

For individuals who are inflexible and more uncoordinated than Olympic lifters, it is more difficult since they haven't learned the lift. If you have experience with the Olympic lifts, the full squat clean allows you to under the bar easier. You have to have that experience though. Go power clean 135 pounds. Then go squat clean it. Although both develop power, the squat clean is a much different beast.

The issue with Squat Clean and a Power Clean is TECHNIQUE. You CAN NOT ASSUME one person could switch over from a PC to a full clean with 'full technical efficiency'. Ask the person to do a full Clean and they will rarely edge that much more. Ask a person to do a full Clean and then to PC and they'll lift less but the lift will be in the usual boundaries of 85-90% of a full clean.

Back in the day (up until the 70's or so) it was a SPLIT CLEAN as NO BODY thought to 'squat' under the bar mate!!! My coach did the Split Cleans and he was transitioning to the squat clean.

Koing

 

[bommy261]

Doable for who?!

i rarely max out in cleans because my gym would get pissed if dropped weights all over the place, but i did 330 lbs, 2 weeks ago. if i had better training methods, i feel i could get 400 lbs in a 1-2 years. the jerk on the other hand is a completely different animal. i am pretty average, so i feel this is doable, but then again i'm 103 kg

 

[gramboh]

180kg is no joke, but if you are a 105kg lifter you could get there assuming you trained enough, koing what level of strength do you think would be needed? I'm thinking 240kg back squat and a 205-210ish front?

 

[Koing]

i rarely max out in cleans because my gym would get pissed if dropped weights all over the place, but i did 330 lbs, 2 weeks ago. if i had better training methods, i feel i could get 400 lbs in a 1-2 years. the jerk on the other hand is a completely different animal. i am pretty average, so i feel this is doable, but then again i'm 103 kg

Law of dimenishing returns mate and genetic limits.

Most HS run 10.5ish but most will NEVER break 10.1 let alone sub 10.

Same with Cleans. 330lbs is a rock solid number but the chances of a 400lb clean in 1-2yrs is slim to none imo. There are no 'if's and 'would' imo. There is only what you can and can't do . I'd love to see anyone put down 2yrs (we aren't pro athletes, we have to work and make a living, I've managed an awesome 15hrs sleep in 3 days with 10hr working days with 2.5hr round trips) get 400lbs.

180kg is no joke, but if you are a 105kg lifter you could get there assuming you trained enough, koing what level of strength do you think would be needed? I'm thinking 240kg back squat and a 205-210ish front?

You would need to front squat at least 200kg for 3reps imo, if not 220 for 3reps and have 'very good technique'. You don't often see people Cleaning 400lbs badly if ever, 330-350lbs, yeah I've seen some big f0ck off guys do it badly, but not 400lbs badly.

The back squat isn't a very good barometer of strength as people always squat it differently. They say an ATG squat when it's barely below parallel and say it's as low as they can go, but they go lower in a Snatch or Clean...or with a savage lean forwards. The front squat is a much better measurement of ones strength for OLifting imo.

Like the DL is no measurement of how a PL will convert to weightlifting. The DL is done completely different for most PL relative to how you do the Clean 1st pull. Your back is bent, your hips aren't low and yoru chest up, you don't maintain a straight back throughout the 1st and 2nd pulls of movement so your DL counts for jack when it's heavy. A 300kg DL doesn't convert to a 150kg Clean at all. You have to work the technique a lot to get gains out of your DL strength.

I have good technique and can front squat 170kg for a single, 150kg for 6reps and can Clean 150kg on a good day. I would most probably fail it on a normal day easily imo. But in comp I'm always good for it as I've tapered up and I'm a competition lifter. I've failed to Clean 160kg 2x in training but I'm a bit to go before I can Jerk it though.

69kg can front squat 200kg for 5reps strict but the most they have recently C&J is about 180-185kg. Granted it's 110-115kg+ above bw .

It's the speed at which you get under the bar is the main issue for most lifters who are working their Cleans. It looks effortless by a very good lifter but stack on anything over 1.2x bw and see how it feels.

Cleaning 80kg above bw is a big big feat imo. It's no where near world class but it's a f0cking huge feat! . I'm at a pretty solid 65kg. I'm aiming for 130 Snatch and 160 C&J before the year is over.

Koing

 

[gramboh]

Great insightful post koing, good luck with the 130/160, will you compete at British nationals with that total? What would you need to make a euro team?

 

[Eric62]

As a powerlifter I can say that Olympic lifting requires way more skill, coordination, speed, and flexibility than powerlifting. It's also more unforgiving of genetic flaws, i.e. disproportionately long forearms is a death sentence.
Now if they would just change the rules so dropping the bar would count as a failed attempt, like it is in powerlifting...

 

[Koing]

Great insightful post koing, good luck with the 130/160, will you compete at British nationals with that total? What would you need to make a euro team?

260kg qualifies for British Champs at 94kg class. I did 265kg at a comp in December so I've qualified and have my tickets booked. 26th June so just over 2 weeks.

I would need 300kg to qualify for the Euro Championships. I'd be in the C or D group! You would need at least 360-380+ for a A class lifting group.

As a powerlifter I can say that Olympic lifting requires way more skill, coordination, speed, and flexibility than powerlifting. It's also more unforgiving of genetic flaws, i.e. disproportionately long forearms is a death sentence.
Now if they would just change the rules so dropping the bar would count as a failed attempt, like it is in powerlifting...

Different things man. An OLifter won't have the absolute raw strength of a raw PL in the big 3, and the squats are very different. The DL is VERY different. One is to pull the most off the floor to full lock out. The other is to setup the 2nd pull properly.

I'm more explosive then absolute on raw strength so OL suits me better and I find it more fun to throw big weights over head. My only decent strength number is my 201kg atg back squat.

Koing

 

[gramboh]

Koing, good luck at British champs, look forward to seeing your lifts on youtube. If you work up to a 300kg total that would be sick, would love to see you on Eurosport (assuming they broadcast B/C/D groups hehe).

Speaking of 94kg, do you know if Kolecki from Poland is still competing? that WR C&J he set as a junior is amazing, and I think it is like 100% of his front squat, crazy speed under the bar.

 

[Koing]

Can't wait mate! I've had 6 back to back solid sessions best 6 sessions I've had in a row in 10yrs of training!!!

One day mate, 300 isn't the end. It's the start. I'll hammer away and see how far I can go , it'll be a fun journey

Not sure of Kolecki, but he's one of my favorite lifters. SICK technique! His Clean is ridiculous, but it's harder for him as he's a tall 94, well tall lifter PERIOD so it's harder for him to be strong in the front squat compared to the other shorter 94's. But he still shits a lot of weight!

He had a big back injury also which stopped him out of the game for a while.

Koing

 

[RESmonkey]

Koing, YGPM...on youtube lol.

Oh, and good luck !