Demon-Xanth
Lifer
If I am going to shoot at someone, I am going to attempt to disable them by removing thier ability to pump blood in a timely manner.
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Compared to a 9mm, how does a .380 acp compare?
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If I am going to shoot at someone, I am going to attempt to disable them by removing thier ability to pump blood in a timely manner.
Specop 007
Diamond Member
The neurosurgeon lives in the attic just above the garag...err....DMT's room.
JDub02
Diamond Member
I have a .380 auto ... not by choice, though. My grandfather gave it to me. Not a bad little gun. About the size of a .25 .. but obviously with alot more punch. Very easy to carry concealed.
If you practice, a .380 will be fine. You just have to be a better shot. I wouldn't recommend it for stopping power, though.
If you practice, a .380 will be fine. You just have to be a better shot. I wouldn't recommend it for stopping power, though.
JeffreyLebowski
Lifer
Shoot to kill, otherwise you will get sued and loose. And stopping power is a myth. Though having been through the academy, I can tell you, more Police officers are killed by .22 than anything else. The reason why is a .22 will penitrate skin and bone on impact, but a lot of the times it looses so much momentum that it doesn't exit. It will richochette around inside and do more damage. which is why I'm planing on buy a walther p99 in .22LR
JeffreyLebowski
Lifer
I hate to break it to you but the only way to effectively "stop" someone with a fire arm is to sever their spinal cord or hit them in the brain and do enough damage. A lot of 1911 people think that the 1911 is the be-all end-all of guns, they will argue to death with 9mm users and it goes both ways.
It's the same with "knock-down" power. a bullet can't knock someone over, except for maybe a .50BMG
A shotgun won't knock anyone over. Even a high-powered rifle won't knock someone over. If it doesn't knock you over when you shoot it, it won't knock you over when the bullet hits you. You might fall over if you're dead, but you won't get knocked off your feet from the force of the bullet hitting you. Newton's laws.
Ripped from a gun forum:
"I was going to open a new thread to deal with this issue but, since you asked here goes.
Knock down power: The ability of a bullet to knock a man down. Only in Hollywood.
For any action there is an opposite and equal reaction.
So if the fired bullet would knock the man down the shooter would also be knocked down due to recoil of equal force.
Richard Davis of Second Chance body armor did a neat demo a few years ago.
He stood on one foot wearing the appropriate level vest and was shot with a FN FAL 308. Guess what? He didn't fall down.
Then there's the kinetic energy crowd. Ah well, my 44 produces 1,000 foot pounds of muzzle energy.
A foot pound is the amount of energy required to lift one pound one foot. So go shoot a 1,000 pound steel ball or any other 1,000 pound object for that matter with your 44 and see how far you move it in any direction.
What matters is what tissue is destroyed or damaged and what is its relationship to keeping the human body functioning.
If you really want to see an amazing display of knock down, stopping or shocking power. Sneak up on someone and jab them in the butt with a needle (I vote for Vboy) LOL. and see what happens. They will jump and flail about. Is this to say that the needle has knock down power?
It is simply how the body reacts. Its late, but I'll start a thread on what I call the gun and caliber chasers after some rack time."
"I was going to open a new thread to deal with this issue but, since you asked here goes.
Knock down power: The ability of a bullet to knock a man down. Only in Hollywood.
For any action there is an opposite and equal reaction.
So if the fired bullet would knock the man down the shooter would also be knocked down due to recoil of equal force.
Richard Davis of Second Chance body armor did a neat demo a few years ago.
He stood on one foot wearing the appropriate level vest and was shot with a FN FAL 308. Guess what? He didn't fall down.
Then there's the kinetic energy crowd. Ah well, my 44 produces 1,000 foot pounds of muzzle energy.
A foot pound is the amount of energy required to lift one pound one foot. So go shoot a 1,000 pound steel ball or any other 1,000 pound object for that matter with your 44 and see how far you move it in any direction.
What matters is what tissue is destroyed or damaged and what is its relationship to keeping the human body functioning.
If you really want to see an amazing display of knock down, stopping or shocking power. Sneak up on someone and jab them in the butt with a needle (I vote for Vboy) LOL. and see what happens. They will jump and flail about. Is this to say that the needle has knock down power?
It is simply how the body reacts. Its late, but I'll start a thread on what I call the gun and caliber chasers after some rack time."
Been to the range 6 times? Don't even bother carrying if that is the case. You need a lot more practice. Forget about the round per say, concentrate on finding a weapon that is comfortable for you to carry and practice practice practice, preferrably with professional instruction to keep you from developing bad habits. It will take thousands of repetitions of presenting the weapon from the holster, clearing jams, etc. to make it muscle memory which is what you need if you intend to use it for defense.
On another note, my personal weapon of choice is a SIG P228 or P229 in 9mm. Unfortunately the suits back in DC are now forcing me to carry the POS M9. I hate this thing, but we all spent a lot of time familiarizing ourself with it which is what you need to do.
If you're not prepared to kill someone you shouldn't be packing. It'd be worse than not having a gun if you pull it out but aren't really prepared to kill someone, especially if that someone has no similar qualms about killing.
Anyways, if they would only sell those new tazers to civilians they'd be pretty darn effective since the new ones mimic actual nerve signals (as opposed to simply jamming electricity through someone's body) making them pretty much impossible to resist.
But at any rate if you stay pretty alert and smart you can usually avoid the kind of situation where you would find yourself needing a gun
Anyways, if they would only sell those new tazers to civilians they'd be pretty darn effective since the new ones mimic actual nerve signals (as opposed to simply jamming electricity through someone's body) making them pretty much impossible to resist.
But at any rate if you stay pretty alert and smart you can usually avoid the kind of situation where you would find yourself needing a gun
For a gun that you're going to carry and only use in emergency situations, then something small and light would be great. However, if you plan on going to the range a lot and shooting it, I'd suggest something bigger and heavier.
I remember shooting a Makarov that a friend had. It was a good looking gun, looked sort of like a Walther PPK. But that thing was brutal on my wrist. It was small and light and had a sharp kick. I wouldn't say the kick was very powerful, it was just too "sharp", or too fast, and would hurt my wrist and make my hand go numb.
I remember shooting a Makarov that a friend had. It was a good looking gun, looked sort of like a Walther PPK. But that thing was brutal on my wrist. It was small and light and had a sharp kick. I wouldn't say the kick was very powerful, it was just too "sharp", or too fast, and would hurt my wrist and make my hand go numb.
Pepper spray works even if the victim can't feel pain.
http://www.aware.org/toolsntechnqs.shtml#Stun.guns
Metron
Golden Member
Stopping power isn't a myth, and it's generally the fragmentation that creates the huge holes, not ricocheting.
http://www.steyrscout.org/terminal.htm
kage69
Lifer
So I guess this counts as you not wanting to provide backup for your opinion. Why is it you think you're "breaking it to me"? This is immaterial to what I was addressing in your post, but since you brought it up you can add 'the heart' to that list of neigh-instant-death targets.
I'm aware of the rivalry between 1911 users and others, however again you seem to miss what I was refering to. I mentioned the 1911 as it is the most well known representation of the .45ACP round. I'm not debating gun models, rather the merits and performance of pistol ammunition. The .45ACP was developed to drop people, and it has a hell of a lot more "slap" to it than a 9mm - I doubt this would be argued by anyone familiar with both rounds.
Wrong. Ok, now I know you are just talking out your ass, pretend I didn't ask you anything. :roll:
KingNothing
Diamond Member
Your...neurosurgeon?
Mindset and training are more important than caliber, and you ain't there... you should take a pass on the CCW...
If that statistic is even true, I would say its because a crackhead willing to shoot a cop is more likely to have a stolen .22 rather than some mystical power of the .22 round.
Handguns pale (obviously) in comparison compared to rifles and shotguns in stopping ability. Rifles have velocity, when combined with a well designed bullet, will fragment and cause's multiple large permanent wound cavities, as well as larger tissue disruption from the temporary wound cavity. This will generally stop someone quickly, depending on shot placement as well as a whole slough of other factors. Shotguns do it with multiple projectiles or a very large projectile (slug). Handguns generally don't have the velocity to cause a bullet to fragment, so you are generally left with one permanent wound cavity, with smaller disruption to surrounding tissue from the temporary wound cavity because of lower velocity. Shot placement is key to disabling an adversary, that being said, a larger round such as a .45 will have a larger permanent wound cavity than a smaller round, and have a greater chance of hitting something vital as well.
I am no expert, so you can take all this with a grain of salt, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night...
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