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Company of Heroes Screenshots

M

murban135

Platinum Member
This is an animated GIF from a series of screenshots from Company of Heroes that shows why you should not attack a Tiger tank from the front:

Link

The shells just bounce right off.
 
What a kickass game. I love it. It averaged about 92% across all the major review sites and I still think it was underrated. I hate RTS games, but I haven't stopped playing this one since the day it was released.
 
Originally posted by: jbourne77
What a kickass game. I love it. It averaged about 92% across all the major review sites and I still think it was underrated. I hate RTS games, but I haven't stopped playing this one since the day it was released.
Click to expand...


I am not big on RTS games but it's hard to ignore all the positive reviews it has received.

I would play mainly for the single player game as I tend to get overexcited when playing RTS games online. Is it extrememly frantic on the single player side?
 
Originally posted by: Czar
not surprising, the shermans had no chance of penetrating the tigers frontal armor
Click to expand...

heh in real life at that range they would have made that Tiger into swiss cheese.


 
The Tiger, and its several versions (King Tiger, Tiger II, JagTiger) were hands down the best tank to see action in WWII. Were it not for numerical superiority, the Americans would not have a way to deal with Tigers. Germany just did not have the resources in late '44 to continue producing this 68 ton monster war machine. The Sherman was hopelessly outgunned, but as one captured German tanker put it:
"Our Tiger is superior to 10 of your Shermans ... but you always seemed to have 11 of them !!"
One of the most famous German tank commanders was killed in his Tiger after attacking a Sherman column of at least 10 tanks. Five of them had surrounded the Tiger from various angles and battered the Tiger with their 75mm guns, but none proceeded to penetrate the Tiger's armor. The turret was literally smashed in upon the Germans inside. The only way a Sherman could penetrate the Tiger was a rear shot at very close range, where the armor was not as thick.
 
I was watching the military channel one day and they had a 'top 10 war weapons' and they featured tanks, the tiger tank was the sh|t!!! ah what a great channel
 
This game needs more British Army - Centurion tanks had much bigger guns.

You'd think if you were gonna pick only 2 sides for a WWII game it would be Britain and Germany, but I guess it is an American game, *shrug*
 
tiger tanks also drank fuel like alcoholics. cut off the fuel supply, tigers become useless. a lot of times hitting the supply lines was actually more effective than trying to destroy the tigers outright, IIRC (history channel)
 
Originally posted by: murban135
This is an animated GIF from a series of screenshots from Company of Heroes that shows why you should not attack a Tiger tank from the front:

Link

The shells just bounce right off.
Click to expand...

Looks like the Tiger took a good chunk of damage, though. Fire springs up from the engine compartment right after the shell strikes it. Looks like it blew the engine cover off.

That's an amazing pic. Everything from sparks at the point of impact to smoke trailing off the round as it exits the scene. I'm not very familiar with COH. People keep calling it an RTS, but I have never seen an RTS scene rendered from an angle like that. Have to go check it out.
 
Originally posted by: WT
The Tiger, and its several versions (King Tiger, Tiger II, JagTiger) were hands down the best tank to see action in WWII. Were it not for numerical superiority, the Americans would not have a way to deal with Tigers. Germany just did not have the resources in late '44 to continue producing this 68 ton monster war machine. The Sherman was hopelessly outgunned, but as one captured German tanker put it:
"Our Tiger is superior to 10 of your Shermans ... but you always seemed to have 11 of them !!"
One of the most famous German tank commanders was killed in his Tiger after attacking a Sherman column of at least 10 tanks. Five of them had surrounded the Tiger from various angles and battered the Tiger with their 75mm guns, but none proceeded to penetrate the Tiger's armor. The turret was literally smashed in upon the Germans inside. The only way a Sherman could penetrate the Tiger was a rear shot at very close range, where the armor was not as thick.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the allies didnt have an answer to the tiger I until the end of the war. But the russians had 2500 answers to the tiger tanks that spearheaded the berlin assault. The soviet IS-2 has a 122mm gun that was designed for naval use attached to it, also had pretty decent sloped armor.

Tigers were good tanks but they were too complex to be considered the allround best tank. Broke down far too often. In fact a good way to deal with a batallion of tigers would be to hide/run away and wait for them all to run out of fuel or break down 🙂 easy pickins.
 
Originally posted by: Soviet
Originally posted by: WT
The Tiger, and its several versions (King Tiger, Tiger II, JagTiger) were hands down the best tank to see action in WWII. Were it not for numerical superiority, the Americans would not have a way to deal with Tigers. Germany just did not have the resources in late '44 to continue producing this 68 ton monster war machine. The Sherman was hopelessly outgunned, but as one captured German tanker put it:
"Our Tiger is superior to 10 of your Shermans ... but you always seemed to have 11 of them !!"
One of the most famous German tank commanders was killed in his Tiger after attacking a Sherman column of at least 10 tanks. Five of them had surrounded the Tiger from various angles and battered the Tiger with their 75mm guns, but none proceeded to penetrate the Tiger's armor. The turret was literally smashed in upon the Germans inside. The only way a Sherman could penetrate the Tiger was a rear shot at very close range, where the armor was not as thick.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the allies didnt have an answer to the tiger I until the end of the war. But the russians had 2500 answers to the tiger tanks that spearheaded the berlin assault. The soviet IS-2 has a 122mm gun that was designed for naval use attached to it, also had pretty decent sloped armor.

Tigers were good tanks but they were too complex to be considered the allround best tank. Broke down far too often. In fact a good way to deal with a batallion of tigers would be to hide/run away and wait for them all to run out of fuel or break down 🙂 easy pickins.
Click to expand...

Yea, not to mention Tigers had a hard time crossing bridges due to it's size and weight.
 
Originally posted by: Andy22
Originally posted by: jbourne77
What a kickass game. I love it. It averaged about 92% across all the major review sites and I still think it was underrated. I hate RTS games, but I haven't stopped playing this one since the day it was released.
Click to expand...


I am not big on RTS games but it's hard to ignore all the positive reviews it has received.

I would play mainly for the single player game as I tend to get overexcited when playing RTS games online. Is it extrememly frantic on the single player side?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it definitely has its moments where you feel you just can't keep up with the action. I mostly play Skirmish against the CPU though. You can pause the game, catch your breath, and issue commands. I like to just sit back and take my time with it.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Czar
not surprising, the shermans had no chance of penetrating the tigers frontal armor
Click to expand...

heh in real life at that range they would have made that Tiger into swiss cheese.
Click to expand...

Not while hitting the frontal armor.

The tank shells used at that time got most of their energy from the actual explosives in them. Even at that range when the shell would have been close to muzzle velocity the added kinetic energy would not have added enough power to pierce the frontal armor of the Tiger. Those tanks were just that tough and our shells were just that weak.

Knock off a tread, damage a gun barrel, knock out the driver or commander prism maybe. Hit em in the side at that distance and it would probably work. Hit em in the butt at nearly any distance and you would have a shot too.

The Panther tanks were probably the best tanks of WWII. Almost as tough as the Tigers but fast and reliable. Russian T-34's were up there too...first tanks to really use angled armor. The tigers were basically rolling blocks of steel. They were so tough they were nearly unstoppable but they broke down all the time, were slow as ******, gobbled fuel (at a time when German fuel supplies were beyond critical), were difficult to produce and never gained sufficient numbers to counter the cheap/fast/crappy shermans that we threw at them like gnats.


Neat .gif file there Murban! 🙂
 
I'm stuck on a damned mission in solo campaign that I can NOT get past. When you have to hold the hill from the Germans (I took it, now I have to hold it capturing 5 strategic points)
Germans just flood in from everywhere and I can't keep up 🙁
 
!!!! SHERMANS own TIGERS! JUST CIRCLE STRAFE THE TIGER!

Shermans are the BEST tanks just due to their mobility. Any other tank Germans have is NOTHING against the Sherman, because the all Shermans have to do is circle strafe around any German tank, because german tank turrets cannot keep up.
 
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
T-34s were the best design, because it was cheap, easy to build, and they made 57,000 of them in WW2.
Click to expand...

Not just cheap & easy to build either. They were fast, employed the first examples of more modern armor design and had a heavy gun. Excellent tank. They still couldn't pop a hole in a tiger though...but the tigers had trouble killing them as well. There were stories of T-34s actually ramming tigers.
 
Originally posted by: Smilin
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Czar
not surprising, the shermans had no chance of penetrating the tigers frontal armor
Click to expand...

heh in real life at that range they would have made that Tiger into swiss cheese.
Click to expand...

Not while hitting the frontal armor.

The tank shells used at that time got most of their energy from the actual explosives in them. Even at that range when the shell would have been close to muzzle velocity the added kinetic energy would not have added enough power to pierce the frontal armor of the Tiger. Those tanks were just that tough and our shells were just that weak.

Knock off a tread, damage a gun barrel, knock out the driver or commander prism maybe. Hit em in the side at that distance and it would probably work. Hit em in the butt at nearly any distance and you would have a shot too.

The Panther tanks were probably the best tanks of WWII. Almost as tough as the Tigers but fast and reliable. Russian T-34's were up there too...first tanks to really use angled armor. The tigers were basically rolling blocks of steel. They were so tough they were nearly unstoppable but they broke down all the time, were slow as ******, gobbled fuel (at a time when German fuel supplies were beyond critical), were difficult to produce and never gained sufficient numbers to counter the cheap/fast/crappy shermans that we threw at them like gnats.


Neat .gif file there Murban! 🙂
Click to expand...

It really depends on the type of shell used of course. HE may not have enough penetration value to get through the front of a tiger from 100 meters. I have the charts and will look up what value AP and Tungsten rounds from the Sherman 75 can penetrate which armor slope at which distance. The 76 was a much better gun which saw action on the fireflies and M4A1(76)W. A british firefly is what knocked out the top german tank ace of the war Wittman, who drove Tigers.

Tiger armor slope is an effective 0 degree's, it is like shooting a wall. This is why later in the war it wasnt a good tank except at long range when it could pick tanks off at distance with its L/56 gun. Of course in the hills and forests of Europe, it wasnt premiere tank hunting country for the big cat. Needless to say at that kind of range which looks to be at most 100 meters, even the standard issued Sherman shouldnt have a problem penetrating the front armor. Tigers werent invincible, especially once their range advantage was cut.

I am not good with trig, sorry, but it appears the plain jane sherman with the M3 75 can penetrate a 92mm of 30 degree slope of armor at a range of ~500 meters. The frontal glacis of the tiger is 100mm@24 degrees. So at 100 meters I cant imagine it not being able to punch a hole through the front of a tiger using AP rounds.

The 76mm gun can penetrate 157mm of 30 degree armor at 500 meters. And upto 116mm at 1371 meters. I bet those fireflies could knock a tiger out frontally at ~1500 meters or nearly a mile out.

 
Originally posted by: murban135
This is an animated GIF from a series of screenshots from Company of Heroes that shows why you should not attack a Tiger tank from the front:

Link

The shells just bounce right off.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure that Tiger tank is the one being "attacked", considering its 5 on 1, and I'd take my chances on the side of the Shermans...
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Smilin
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Czar
not surprising, the shermans had no chance of penetrating the tigers frontal armor
Click to expand...

heh in real life at that range they would have made that Tiger into swiss cheese.
Click to expand...

Not while hitting the frontal armor.

The tank shells used at that time got most of their energy from the actual explosives in them. Even at that range when the shell would have been close to muzzle velocity the added kinetic energy would not have added enough power to pierce the frontal armor of the Tiger. Those tanks were just that tough and our shells were just that weak.

Knock off a tread, damage a gun barrel, knock out the driver or commander prism maybe. Hit em in the side at that distance and it would probably work. Hit em in the butt at nearly any distance and you would have a shot too.

The Panther tanks were probably the best tanks of WWII. Almost as tough as the Tigers but fast and reliable. Russian T-34's were up there too...first tanks to really use angled armor. The tigers were basically rolling blocks of steel. They were so tough they were nearly unstoppable but they broke down all the time, were slow as ******, gobbled fuel (at a time when German fuel supplies were beyond critical), were difficult to produce and never gained sufficient numbers to counter the cheap/fast/crappy shermans that we threw at them like gnats.


Neat .gif file there Murban! 🙂
Click to expand...

It really depends on the type of shell used of course. HE may not have enough penetration value to get through the front of a tiger from 100 meters. I have the charts and will look up what value AP and Tungsten rounds from the Sherman 75 can penetrate which armor slope at which distance. The 76 was a much better gun which saw action on the fireflies and M4A1(76)W. A british firefly is what knocked out the top german tank ace of the war Wittman, who drove Tigers.

Tiger armor slope is an effective 0 degree's, it is like shooting a wall. This is why later in the war it wasnt a good tank except at long range when it could pick tanks off at distance with its L/56 gun. Of course in the hills and forests of Europe, it wasnt premiere tank hunting country for the big cat. Needless to say at that kind of range which looks to be at most 100 meters, even the standard issued Sherman shouldnt have a problem penetrating the front armor. Tigers werent invincible, especially once their range advantage was cut.

I am not good with trig, sorry, but it appears the plain jane sherman with the M3 75 can penetrate a 92mm of 30 degree slope of armor at a range of ~500 meters. The frontal glacis of the tiger is 100mm@24 degrees. So at 100 meters I cant imagine it not being able to punch a hole through the front of a tiger using AP rounds.

The 76mm gun can penetrate 157mm of 30 degree armor at 500 meters. And upto 116mm at 1371 meters. I bet those fireflies could knock a tiger out frontally at ~1500 meters or nearly a mile out.
Click to expand...

I think we'll need to double check lots of facts to get this sorted out.

I'm seeing:
Armour penetration (M72 AP shell, 457 m, at 30 degrees): 76 mm, not 92mm.
Also the 100mm Armor on the hull of the tiger was at a 24 degree slope. The 0 degree slope armor around the gun was 120mm thick.

And:
The M4 Sherman's 75 mm gun could not penetrate the Tiger frontally at any range, and needed to be within 500 m to achieve a side penetration. The US 76 mm gun, if firing the most common APCBC ammunition, could not penetrate the Tiger frontally at any range, and needed to be within 1,000 m to get a side kill. However, if the 76 mm was firing HVAP ammunition (usually in short supply), frontal penetrations were possible at 1,000 m.

The real kinetic energy penetrators that could have ripped up the tigers just didn't really become available until soon after the war.

Now the Tiger IIs were a different beast altogether. It was fortunate for the allies they had so many mechanical problems and were so few in numbers:
Tiger II armor:
Hull front, lower: 100 mm @ 40°; upper: 150 mm @ 40° (note the increased thickness and more importantly the slope)


So I guess my final take on it:
A later model Sherman with the very rare top of the line AP ammo could maybe take a Tiger 1 (not II) if it got a direct shot, head on (no side angles at all) at the close ranges seen in that video clip.

Any other circumstances and all you're gonna do is give the tiger crew some ringing ears.
 
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