Company makes a mockery of the Virgin Mary

[palehorse]

The Virgin Mary Keeps Your Data Safe...In Her Womb!

Now, in all seriousness, let's discuss why it is that Islam seems to be the only religion with followers who react to goofy mockeries, such as this one, with violence and all-out hostility.

What can/should be done to cause Islam to evolve more quickly? Yes, I do believe that "evolution" is the proper word used to describe the progress other organized religions have made over the last five centuries.

I'm not attacking all of Islam, and I, for one, certainly recognize the violent fanaticism as a very small minority within the whole. That said, the minority I refer to is VERY vocal, VERY violent, and VERY influential on all of Islam. Why is that?

The title and link were just to get people talking (and laughing), but what I really want to see is a serious dicussion on actions, of any type, that could be taken to see all of Islam become as "peaceful" as most other modern religions.

While there may be a few incidents involving fanatics of other faiths, the West has seemingly quelled much of the Christian violence. The number of such incidents as decreased dramatically over the last 200 years, to the point where any problem that springs up is usually squashed in days or weeks.

We need to see Islam progress to at least the same standard of "peacefulness." What can we do? What type of grassroots campaign would it take for Islam to be rid of its fanatical cancer?

/discuss

 

[yllus]

The question isn't what should be done to cause Islam to evolve. The question should be what should be done to evolve the problem societies in which Islam happens to be the predominant religion. There's no basis in thinking that Islam preaches more violence or intolerance than other major religions.

 

[fskimospy]

I have a sneaking suspicion that these riots based around cartoons are really only using them as a pretense to riot about other longstanding issues. Sort of like how the LA riots were "caused" by the Rodney King verdict, but really had a lot of things going on underneath.

 

[RightIsWrong]

This hasn't happened because we were lucky enough to be born in a country where our forefathers thought on such a higher level than their counterparts in other parts of the world. They had the insight to realize that religion was an albatross around the neck of those that succumbed to it without questioning. They gave us the ability, the freedom and THE RIGHT to practice whatever religion or lack thereof that we chose.

Indoctrination, whether it be religious or political without the ability to seek out alternatives or to question without reprimand leads itself down a narrow path that forces you into an inability and unwillingness to stray from. Those that question or doubt must be sacrificed for the good of the whole following this logic. It has repeated itself throughout history time and time again and yet we (humans) keep repeating our mistakes.

Edit: This has nothing to do with Islam being a religion of hate compared to Catholicism, Christianity, etc. All religions have had their moments of insanity. This is a direct result of the freedom to choose whether or not you wanted to follow a particular belief without retribution.

 

[jonks]

It was not too long ago people in this country were torturing confessions out of 'witches' before setting them on fire. And that was the norm for hundreds of years in Europe, topped off by that lovely Inquisition period. If humanity survives a few hundred years more I think we'll see Islam mature. Especially once we get off oil and take away the hold they have over the world.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
It was not too long ago people in this country were torturing confessions out of 'witches' before setting them on fire. And that was the norm for hundreds of years in Europe, topped off by that lovely Inquisition period. If humanity survives a few hundred years more I think we'll see Islam mature. Especially once we get off oil and take away the hold they have over the world.

yes, but they are showing absolutely 0 hope at the moment. Plus, the Christian wacko period happened several hundred of years ago at a time when there was no TV/radio/internet or anything to contradict the retarded brainwashing ministers.

What is Islam's excuse?

 

[manowar821]

Probably because they're impoverished, and catholic/christian fundamentalists are not, on average.

When people have next to nothing to loose except for their faith, they will "defend" it violently... Stupid? Yeah, it sure is, but it's not something to brush aside. Their poverty is a giant factor in their attitude toward the rest of the world. This is not an uncommon effect (same thing happens with inner city gangs), yet it's something world leaders tend to overlook. There are exceptions to any rule, but it has little to do with their religion.

 

[Mursilis]

Yes, but then in the U.S. a local college/pro basketball team winning a championship is occasionally a good reason for a riot, and in Europe/South America, soccer (football) is worth killing over (for some people), so I'm not sure we have much room to talk.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
The Virgin Mary Keeps Your Data Safe...In Her Womb!

Now, in all seriousness, let's discuss why it is that Islam seems to be the only religion that reacts to goofy mockeries, such as this one, with violence and all-out hostility.

I stopped reading right there.

"Religion" isn't a person. So, a religion cannot react, nor act.

 

[Red Dawn]

Christianity isn't as extreme as Islam, well not anymore. Secularism has crept into it and watered it down so it's not so detrimental to humankind as Islam is.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: palehorse74
The Virgin Mary Keeps Your Data Safe...In Her Womb!

Now, in all seriousness, let's discuss why it is that Islam seems to be the only religion that reacts to goofy mockeries, such as this one, with violence and all-out hostility.

I stopped reading right there.

"Religion" isn't a person. So, a religion cannot react, nor act.

I editted and fixed the OP for your anal-retentive pleasure... :roll:

 

[palehorse]

Case in point:
Teddy row protestors demand death!

Press Association
Friday November 30, 2007 3:18 PM


Thousands of Sudanese, many carrying knives and sticks, have taken to the streets of Khartoum calling for the execution of British school teacher Gillian Gibbons, jailed over a teddy bear.

Crowds demonstrated outside the presidential palace, saying the 15-day prison sentence imposed on Mrs Gibbons for allowing her class to call a teddy bear Mohammed was too lenient.

The protesters streamed out of mosques after sermons, as pick-up trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Mrs Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool.

Hundreds of riot police were deployed as demonstrators massed in central Martyrs Square, outside the palace.

"Shame, shame on the UK," protesters chanted, and they called for Mrs Gibbons' execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."

The women's prison where Gibbons is being held is far from the site, as is the Unity High School where she taught, which is under heavy security protection.

The protest flared despite vows by Sudanese security officials during Mrs Gibbons' trial, that threatened demonstrations after prayers would not take place. Some of the protesters carried green banners with the name of the Society for Support of the Prophet Muhammad, a previously unknown group.

Some of the protesters, who one reporter at the scene said numbered as many as 10,000, carried clubs, knives and axes - but not automatic weapons, which some have carried at past government-condoned demonstrations, suggesting the rally was not organised by the government.

During the sermons, the Muslim cleric at Khartoum's main Martyrs Mosque denounced Gibbons, saying she intentionally insulted Islam but he did not call for protests.

"Imprisoning this lady does not satisfy the thirst of Muslims in Sudan. But we welcome imprisonment and expulsion," the cleric, Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri, a well-known hard-liner, told worshippers. "This is an arrogant woman who came to our country, cashing her salary in dollars, teaching our children hatred of our Prophet Muhammad," he said

Is poverty the only cause here? Could this honestly be fixed with a simple influx of money?

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: sirjonk
It was not too long ago people in this country were torturing confessions out of 'witches' before setting them on fire. And that was the norm for hundreds of years in Europe, topped off by that lovely Inquisition period. If humanity survives a few hundred years more I think we'll see Islam mature. Especially once we get off oil and take away the hold they have over the world.

yes, but they are showing absolutely 0 hope at the moment. Plus, the Christian wacko period happened several hundred of years ago at a time when there was no TV/radio/internet or anything to contradict the retarded brainwashing ministers.

What is Islam's excuse?

I would point to the millions of moderate muslims in America, who are not living in abject poverty and are not subject to a totalitarian theocracy as evidence of "hope" as you put it. This, as usual, is more about cultural and societal environment than religion.

If Muslims in the US living under the generally positive conditions that all US citizens enjoy can show that they live without blowing up buildings or themselves, doesn't that indicate the problem might be something other than just their religion?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: palehorse74
The Virgin Mary Keeps Your Data Safe...In Her Womb!

Now, in all seriousness, let's discuss why it is that Islam seems to be the only religion that reacts to goofy mockeries, such as this one, with violence and all-out hostility.

I stopped reading right there.

"Religion" isn't a person. So, a religion cannot react, nor act.

I editted and fixed the OP for your anal-retentive pleasure... :roll:

😕

Do you not understand the difference? You're making a blanket statement, and personalizing a religion based on a small amount of its followers.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Case in point:
Teddy row protestors demand death!

Press Association
Friday November 30, 2007 3:18 PM


Thousands of Sudanese, many carrying knives and sticks, have taken to the streets of Khartoum calling for the execution of British school teacher Gillian Gibbons, jailed over a teddy bear.

Crowds demonstrated outside the presidential palace, saying the 15-day prison sentence imposed on Mrs Gibbons for allowing her class to call a teddy bear Mohammed was too lenient.

The protesters streamed out of mosques after sermons, as pick-up trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Mrs Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool.

Hundreds of riot police were deployed as demonstrators massed in central Martyrs Square, outside the palace.

"Shame, shame on the UK," protesters chanted, and they called for Mrs Gibbons' execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."

The women's prison where Gibbons is being held is far from the site, as is the Unity High School where she taught, which is under heavy security protection.

The protest flared despite vows by Sudanese security officials during Mrs Gibbons' trial, that threatened demonstrations after prayers would not take place. Some of the protesters carried green banners with the name of the Society for Support of the Prophet Muhammad, a previously unknown group.

Some of the protesters, who one reporter at the scene said numbered as many as 10,000, carried clubs, knives and axes - but not automatic weapons, which some have carried at past government-condoned demonstrations, suggesting the rally was not organised by the government.

During the sermons, the Muslim cleric at Khartoum's main Martyrs Mosque denounced Gibbons, saying she intentionally insulted Islam but he did not call for protests.

"Imprisoning this lady does not satisfy the thirst of Muslims in Sudan. But we welcome imprisonment and expulsion," the cleric, Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri, a well-known hard-liner, told worshippers. "This is an arrogant woman who came to our country, cashing her salary in dollars, teaching our children hatred of our Prophet Muhammad," he said

Is poverty the only cause here? Could this honestly be fixed with a simple influx of money?

Well why don't we look at the response of British Muslims:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.../sudan_british_teacher

"One of the good things is the U.K. Muslims who've condemned the charge as completely out of proportion," said Paul Wishart, 37, a student in London.

Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, accused the Sudanese authorities of "gross overreaction."

"This case should have required only simple common sense to resolve. It is unfortunate that the Sudanese authorities were found wanting in this most basic of qualities," he said.

The Muslim Public Affairs Committee, a political advocacy group, said the prosecution was "abominable and defies common sense."

So once again, Muslims living outside of a theocracy are somehow able to control the murderous impulses their religion fosters on them. Amazing.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: sirjonk
It was not too long ago people in this country were torturing confessions out of 'witches' before setting them on fire. And that was the norm for hundreds of years in Europe, topped off by that lovely Inquisition period. If humanity survives a few hundred years more I think we'll see Islam mature. Especially once we get off oil and take away the hold they have over the world.

yes, but they are showing absolutely 0 hope at the moment. Plus, the Christian wacko period happened several hundred of years ago at a time when there was no TV/radio/internet or anything to contradict the retarded brainwashing ministers.

What is Islam's excuse?

I would point to the millions of moderate muslims in America, who are not living in abject poverty and are not subject to a totalitarian theocracy as evidence of "hope" as you put it. This, as usual, is more about cultural and societal environment than religion.

If Muslims in the US living under the generally positive conditions that all US citizens enjoy can show that they live without blowing up buildings or themselves, doesn't that indicate the problem might be something other than just their religion?

Well said.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
It was not too long ago people in this country were torturing confessions out of 'witches' before setting them on fire. And that was the norm for hundreds of years in Europe, topped off by that lovely Inquisition period. If humanity survives a few hundred years more I think we'll see Islam mature. Especially once we get off oil and take away the hold they have over the world.

Before those hundreds of years pass these people will all have nuclear arsenals. Thus, we will be ripe for a nuclear war. Imagine medieval Europe with today?s nukes, how would that have turned out?

Originally posted by: yllus
The question isn't what should be done to cause Islam to evolve.

Darwin said it best. To allude on that, only if the radical?s violence is counter productive to their existence, will the violence stop breeding.

If we afford them tolerance of that violence, we will only seek to propagate it throughout the world. The alternative is to be intolerant of their violence. That concept appears to escape pacifists and appeasers entirely.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
I would point to the millions of moderate muslims in America

http://www.suntimes.com/news/m...CST-NWS-mall29.article

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/...ortdix.plot/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016411.php

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2870505

Don't pretend they're all moderate.

 

[sandorski]

Atheist Andre Crouch says: :music: Secular Humanism is the answer, for the World today


^^The West got it, much of the Islamic World doesn't.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sirjonk
I would point to the millions of moderate muslims in America

http://www.suntimes.com/news/m...CST-NWS-mall29.article

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/...ortdix.plot/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016411.php

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2870505

Don't pretend they're all moderate.

Don't pretend I said they were all moderate. But millions are living in this country and we somehow haven't had mass murders or execution marches for minor infractions or perceived threats to Islam. Every group has its crazies. I'm not going to go hunting for articles about psycho-Christians.

Oh, and the last one you link to is a mall shooting by a disturbed 18 year old who then killed himself. I don't think the Columbine kids were Muslims, were they? Enough.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Don't pretend I said they were all moderate. But millions are living in this country and we somehow haven't had mass murders or execution marches for minor infractions or perceived threats to Islam. Every group has its crazies. I'm not going to go hunting for articles about psycho-Christians.

So how greatly do the moderates condemn and act out against the crazies?

 

[Aimster]

There is nothing I care to do or want to do or wish to happen. My life is great.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: sirjonk
It was not too long ago people in this country were torturing confessions out of 'witches' before setting them on fire. And that was the norm for hundreds of years in Europe, topped off by that lovely Inquisition period. If humanity survives a few hundred years more I think we'll see Islam mature. Especially once we get off oil and take away the hold they have over the world.

yes, but they are showing absolutely 0 hope at the moment. Plus, the Christian wacko period happened several hundred of years ago at a time when there was no TV/radio/internet or anything to contradict the retarded brainwashing ministers.

What is Islam's excuse?

I would point to the millions of moderate muslims in America, who are not living in abject poverty and are not subject to a totalitarian theocracy as evidence of "hope" as you put it. This, as usual, is more about cultural and societal environment than religion.

If Muslims in the US living under the generally positive conditions that all US citizens enjoy can show that they live without blowing up buildings or themselves, doesn't that indicate the problem might be something other than just their religion?

yes and they are following a civilized version of Islam. Nowhere in the middle-east is a civilized version accepted. Following anything other than the backwards version is considered blasphemy and can result in your death. If there wasn't any oil over there, it would be another shitty little area like parts of Africa where the world throws them money and washes their hands of them.

Let's face it, everyone outside of the Middle-East, knows that they are following a retarded antiquidated religion that is no better than the days of Increase Mather in Salem, Mass. Saudi Arabia is pushing the ball on this one as well and until there is a revolution or a shift in power, they are going to stay 4-5 centuries behind a civilized society.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: sirjonk
It was not too long ago people in this country were torturing confessions out of 'witches' before setting them on fire. And that was the norm for hundreds of years in Europe, topped off by that lovely Inquisition period. If humanity survives a few hundred years more I think we'll see Islam mature. Especially once we get off oil and take away the hold they have over the world.

yes, but they are showing absolutely 0 hope at the moment. Plus, the Christian wacko period happened several hundred of years ago at a time when there was no TV/radio/internet or anything to contradict the retarded brainwashing ministers.

What is Islam's excuse?

I would point to the millions of moderate muslims in America, who are not living in abject poverty and are not subject to a totalitarian theocracy as evidence of "hope" as you put it. This, as usual, is more about cultural and societal environment than religion.

If Muslims in the US living under the generally positive conditions that all US citizens enjoy can show that they live without blowing up buildings or themselves, doesn't that indicate the problem might be something other than just their religion?

yes and they are following a civilized version of Islam. Nowhere in the middle-east is a civilized version accepted. Following anything other than the backwards version is considered blasphemy and can result in your death. If there wasn't any oil over there, it would be another shitty little area like parts of Africa where the world throws them money and washes their hands of them.

Let's face it, everyone outside of the Middle-East, knows that they are following a retarded antiquidated religion that is no better than the days of Increase Mather in Salem, Mass. Saudi Arabia is pushing the ball on this one as well and until there is a revolution or a shift in power, they are going to stay 4-5 centuries behind a civilized society.

Not to conflate threads here but: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...OuePQOSsDsO.zswUqs0NUE

You think he's a Muslim? I doubt it.

 

[rpanic]

They have plenty of parentless children to indoctrinate into extremism because cycles of war and violence, what?s the average life expectancy in the Middle East 40s. I don?t even see how they can get past poverty when people are having a hard enough time just living living there.