Comp won't boot, no beeps UPDATE: new PS, still won't boot, but now beeps... UPDATE3: working now

[jaydee]

A week or so ago... I was on my computer, typing away, got up for a second and I look over and it says "Windows is powering down" and it shuts off. I tried to reboot several times, getting no farther than the BIOS screen when it just shuts off. Making sure I wasn't overloading my APC powerstrip/surge protector (which had my comp, monitor, laptop, speakers, hub, 8-in-1 tv/radio/flashlight/lantern/you get the idea, and maybe one or two other things), so I plugged it in the wall by itself and I get the same results. So, what do you think? I've this same 300W HEC for a little over 3 years now and haven't added anything new in several months.


In the past week I've tried booting several times, and it won't get farther than about 5 seconds of normal startup (all the fans spin, everything seems normal, NO BEEPS). I've tried booting with no IDE devices attached and have had varying sucess. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. CHecking the BIOS when it worked, all the temps seemed normal. I've manually reset the CMOS, and that doesn't seem to help at all.

Specs:
Duron 900
256MB PC2100 Kingston
ATI Radeon DDR
SB Live! Platinum
Maxtor 40GB 7200RPM
SIS 735 ECS K7S5A
300W HEC

So, do you think this is a power supply or motherboard problem? In either case, what would you reccomend?

Thanks,
Jim











UPDATE:
Ok, new power supply came in yesterday, and I'm reconnecting everything. I think it's ready to go, I power up, the PS turns on and stays on, but now I'm getting beeps. It sounds like 2 short and 8 long, but they go pretty fast, it took me several times to count them correctly. After about 10 seconds or so, I get 2 quick long beeps and then another long beep. ECS board has AMI BIOS.

According to Hardware Central, Do I go by 10 beeps:

Your problem lies deep inside the CMOS. All chips associated with the CMOS will likely have to be replaced. Your best bet is to get a new motherboard.

Or the 8 beeps:

Your video card isn't working. Make sure it is seated well in the bus. If it still beeps, either the whole card is bad or the memory on it is. Your best bet is to install another video card.

And I can't find anything for the delayed 3 beeps.

Argg... but I didn't get these beeps the first time, why do I get them now?

UPDATE 2:
Reseated the video, the 8-10 nasty beeps at the start are now gone. Now I get the 3 beeps again, and on the BIOS screen:

CMOS Settings Wrong
CMOS Memory Size Wrong

UPDATE 3:

Despite these errors, I'm able to get into windows. Ah well, working for now.

 

[Zepper]

. Sounds like no. 4 might be your problem. Perhaps your CPU fan died or its speed sensor. A HSF I just bought from newegg had a bad sensor.

Boilerplate-01:
. Most frequent causes of failure to boot:
1- RAM, CPU or AGP video card not seated properly, or a bent pin.
2- Drive data cable on upside down or only on half the pins or shifted . a pin or two (usu Floppy or Zip drives).
3- CMOS needs to be cleared (AC power must usually be disconnected or . attempt to clear CMOS may fail) Unless your mobo does not use a power-off CMOS clear - check your mobo manual for specific info.
.bh.
4- On many new mobos there is a CPU protection feature (esp. on Athlon/Socket A mobos) that will not allow the system to start if there is no fan (or a fan without a working speed sensor wire) connected to the fan power connector on the mobo (specifically marked "CPU Fan"). If you tried to start your machine without a fan properly connected, you have to attach a proper and working fan and clear the CMOS before it will boot.
.bh.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I agree with your thinking, try a different PSU since your's is 3+yrs old and the K7S5A can be a real PITA about the power it gets.

 

[jaydee]

The CPU fan spins when the boot process starts. Thanks for the list, but I don't see anything that it could be. I mean the it's been working fine for all this time, nothing has changed/been replaced. I've already cleared the CMOS. On one of the rare occasions, i've been able to get to the BIOS, I checked all the fan, temp stats, they all looked fine. Hmm...

I hear the ECS can be pciky, but it (the MB) has been in there with the same PS for over a year, I don't see why a problem just starts now. Anyway, is there any particular PS that seems to work well with my board over any others? I was thinking an Antec 350W, how does that sound?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The reason I suggest another PSU is that your current one may be showing it's age and failing to provide steady and/or sufficent power now. Rule out the power supply and the board becomes suspect #1.

 

[Zepper]

The CPU fan is working but the speed sensor (tachometer) in the fan may not be. Your symptom is just how that protection works. Get a replacement fan for your HS with speed sensor and try it. That 300W HeroIchi should be more than enough for your system. They are known to put out well over their ratings.
.bh.

 

[CompKidRRO]

I would check the jumpers for both the ram and cpu speeds and voltage.

 

[jaydee]

Originally posted by: Zepper
The CPU fan is working but the speed sensor (tachometer) in the fan may not be. Your symptom is just how that protection works. Get a replacement fan for your HS with speed sensor and try it. That 300W HeroIchi should be more than enough for your system. They are known to put out well over their ratings.
.bh.

Oh ok, I misunderstood your first post, sorry. I see what you're saying now. How do I get a replacement fan and speed sensor? Right now I have a Tt Volcano 7, I've searched Thermaltakes website, and Newegg to no avail. Or would I need a new heatsink entirely?

Thanks for the replies,
Jim

 

[Zepper]

You just need to look up the specs for your HSF. Could be 60, 70, 80mm fan either 15 or 25mm thick and so many CFM. You definitely want a ball bearing fan, maybe dual ball bearing if available. Any fan would work but may not look quite as nice as the original equipment fan. Three-wire fans have the speed sensor and connect right to the mobo CPU Fan connector - that's another thing to check - make sure your CPU fan is connected to the mobo CPU Fan connector or the protection will kick in again.
. You can get replacement fans at: www.svc.com and many other web sites.
.bh.

 

[lobadobadingdong]

Originally posted by: Zepper
The CPU fan is working but the speed sensor (tachometer) in the fan may not be. Your symptom is just how that protection works. Get a replacement fan for your HS with speed sensor and try it. That 300W HeroIchi should be more than enough for your system. They are known to put out well over their ratings.
.bh.

there is no speed sensor in a stepper moter on a hsf, it doesn't even exist! the mobo reads the pulses from the DC feedback to determine the rotational speed of the attached fan. if the fan works and it thinks there is no spinning, then the problem lies with the mobo. speed sensor wires, are actually thermal dection diodes, that change the resistance for the incoming dc signal to allow the speed to increase or decrease when the system reaches a certain temp. and btw that option for the sytem to shut down by high temps isn't a default option on you ecs mobo you have to select it, and it has nothing to do with the fan, it has to do with the cpu core temp.

first try removing the everything from the mobo except the psu connector, proc, and heatsink. try booting you should get long short long on the beep code indicating missing memory, if you get that plug in the mem, and try booting again, if you don't have on-board video (you do have onboard video on that board, so skip this step I just included it for hardware t&a 101) you should get long long for missing of failed video, if you get those beep codes, then your problem either lies in the processor or motherboard, or possibly another component like a failed hard drive or flaky short or open in your cd-rom, floppy, etc. if you didn't get the code, then you have a bad processor or mobo., most likely the mobo, since it attempts to boot the shuts down, but get a differnt proc to test with, duron 1.3's are <$40 so you won't be out much if you cant get one to test with. you might try the fs/t forum here if you don't want to buy new.

Now, if you did get the beep code, insert you peripherals one at a time, start with your bootable hard drive and see if it comes up, if it does and works fine your problem is elsware Continue by moving on the the next peripheral until you come to something that makes your problems return. If you suspect your ps, get the voltages from you rails the should be within 5% of specs.

also when testing plug your system directly into the wall socket to rule out glitches in your surge protector.

 

[lobadobadingdong]

Originally posted by: CompKidRRO
I would check the jumpers for both the ram and cpu speeds and voltage.

jumperless motherboard.

 

[Zepper]

lobading whatever...
. I know that fans can work and the sensor not work because I just RMA'd the fan off my Speeze HSF. The fan ran great but nothing showed for fan RPM in my health monitor. Connected an old fan from my K6 and it read just fine on both mobo fan connections. May have nothing to do with the sensing mechanism at all, just poor solder joints or bad connector crimps in the lead to the mobo. IAC, if the new mobos don't detect a min rpm on the CPUFan connector, it don't start, period. Luckily my mobo doesn't have that type of protection.
.bh.

 

[lobadobadingdong]

Originally posted by: Zepper
lobading whatever...
. I know that fans can work and the sensor not work because I just RMA'd the fan off my Speeze HSF. The fan ran great but nothing showed for fan RPM in my health monitor. Connected an old fan from my K6 and it read just fine on both mobo fan connections. May have nothing to do with the sensing mechanism at all, just poor solder joints or bad connector crimps in the lead to the mobo. IAC, if the new mobos don't detect a min rpm on the CPUFan connector, it don't start, period. Luckily my mobo doesn't have that type of protection.
.bh.

i never disagreed saying that some new mobos won't run if no rpm is detected(point of fact most p4 boards are that way, and few amd boards carry it as they shut down when cpu core temp is at a user defined level), only his and many, many others don't and it can be disabled in the bios on some systems. stepper fans can run without giving feedback causing the mobo to "think" the fan isn't turning, too high of resistance in the wire can cause that or a bad solder connection to the brushings on the moter, while at the same time the fan will be running, only slightly slower than it normaly would. but if you're going to give info out, don't make it up or leave out the facts.(i.e. bad info about fictisios "speed sensors")

all I did was walk him through system trouble shooting 101 for newbs, if you want I can go into further detail but it gets long winded when you go down to the ic level of trouble shooting and I doubt he has an osciliscope or one advanced enough to get to those frequencys.

 

[Zepper]

Newegg has direct replacement fan for the TT V7 - diff color, but does have the fancy guard and temp controller.
.bh.

 

[jaydee]

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong

Originally posted by: Zepper
The CPU fan is working but the speed sensor (tachometer) in the fan may not be. Your symptom is just how that protection works. Get a replacement fan for your HS with speed sensor and try it. That 300W HeroIchi should be more than enough for your system. They are known to put out well over their ratings.
.bh.

there is no speed sensor in a stepper moter on a hsf, it doesn't even exist! the mobo reads the pulses from the DC feedback to determine the rotational speed of the attached fan. if the fan works and it thinks there is no spinning, then the problem lies with the mobo. speed sensor wires, are actually thermal dection diodes, that change the resistance for the incoming dc signal to allow the speed to increase or decrease when the system reaches a certain temp. and btw that option for the sytem to shut down by high temps isn't a default option on you ecs mobo you have to select it, and it has nothing to do with the fan, it has to do with the cpu core temp.

first try removing the everything from the mobo except the psu connector, proc, and heatsink. try booting you should get long short long on the beep code indicating missing memory, if you get that plug in the mem, and try booting again, if you don't have on-board video (you do have onboard video on that board, so skip this step I just included it for hardware t&a 101) you should get long long for missing of failed video, if you get those beep codes, then your problem either lies in the processor or motherboard, or possibly another component like a failed hard drive or flaky short or open in your cd-rom, floppy, etc. if you didn't get the code, then you have a bad processor or mobo., most likely the mobo, since it attempts to boot the shuts down, but get a differnt proc to test with, duron 1.3's are <$40 so you won't be out much if you cant get one to test with. you might try the fs/t forum here if you don't want to buy new.

I don't see what those beep tests would accomplish. I know that neither the mem, nor video are bad (btw, the K7S5A does not have on-board vid), because I don't get those beeps now. Also, even a hard drive or cd-rom did fail, it wouldn't stop the boot process before I can access the BIOS.

Now, if you did get the beep code, insert you peripherals one at a time, start with your bootable hard drive and see if it comes up, if it does and works fine your problem is elsware Continue by moving on the the next peripheral until you come to something that makes your problems return. If you suspect your ps, get the voltages from you rails the should be within 5% of specs.

I'll try to get ahold of a tester tomarrow.

also when testing plug your system directly into the wall socket to rule out glitches in your surge protector.

Done that.

Thanks for the suggestions, if you have anymore thoughts, keep 'em coming.

Jim

 

[lobadobadingdong]

I don't see what those beep tests would accomplish. I know that neither the mem, nor video are bad (btw, the K7S5A does not have on-board vid), because I don't get those beeps now. Also, even a hard drive or cd-rom did fail, it wouldn't stop the boot process before I can access the BIOS.

not testing the mem, testing the mobo, if you don't get the beep codes then you have a problem with your memory controller. and you're right, I just rarely see k75sa's, most people get the pro model with the on-board vid.

and if I remember right that bios has a health monitor, you should be able to get a rough estimate of the rails there.

also will it boot to a bootable floppy or cd-rom, or does it do the same thing? if so it is possible you have a fubared os on your hdd.

 

[jaydee]

Everything unplugged except power, cpu, hs/f. No turn on. Fans don't spin, no hint of the comp even trying to start. Hmm... I'm still thinking this is PS related. It's always seemed to be just running out of juice when it gets to a certain point in the boot process.

and if I remember right that bios has a health monitor, you should be able to get a rough estimate of the rails there.

also will it boot to a bootable floppy or cd-rom, or does it do the same thing? if so it is possible you have a fubared os on your hdd.

I can not get to the BIOS.

A little more background, I now realize I failed to mention initially: A couple months ago I was having the same problem, but after I gave it a day or two of rest, it came back up working fine, no troubles for 2 months. Than 2 weeks ago, the same thing happend, and after a few hours of rest, it came back for 1 week, and then the problems come back. It's been down for around a week now. Zoom to today.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

try another PSU, get a new CMOS battery, and if it still won't work I'd suspect the board has gone.

 

[AbsolutDealage]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
try another PSU, get a new CMOS battery, and if it still won't work I'd suspect the board has gone.

I'll second that motion. And besides, if it doesn't end up being the PSU, then you'll have an extra one laying around... that never hurts. Heck, while you're at it, replace the board and the PSU... get rid of that god awful ECS POS while you have the chance!!

 

[jaydee]

I'll second that motion. And besides, if it doesn't end up being the PSU, then you'll have an extra one laying around... that never hurts. Heck, while you're at it, replace the board and the PSU... get rid of that god awful ECS POS while you have the chance!!

Yes, and if I had lots of money, I'd love to have extra stuff lying around...

Alright, looks to be about time to buy a new PS.

If you'd like to sponser me, I'd love to replace the mobo

 

[jaydee]

Ok, new power supply came in yesterday, and I'm reconnecting everything. I think it's ready to go, I power up, the PS turns on and stays on, but now I'm getting beeps. It sounds like 2 short and 8 long, but they go pretty fast, it took me several times to count them correctly. After about 10 seconds or so, I get 2 quick long beeps and then another long beep. ECS board has AMI BIOS.

According to Hardware Central, Do I go by 10 beeps:

Your problem lies deep inside the CMOS. All chips associated with the CMOS will likely have to be replaced. Your best bet is to get a new motherboard.

Or the 8 beeps:

Your video card isn't working. Make sure it is seated well in the bus. If it still beeps, either the whole card is bad or the memory on it is. Your best bet is to install another video card.

And I can't find anything for the delayed 3 beeps.


Argg... but I didn't get these beeps the first time, why do I get them now?

 

[jaydee]

OK, I reseated the video, and now the 8 or 10 beeps or whatever are now gone.


Now I get 3 beeps, and on the BIOS screen:

CMOS Settings Wrong
CMOS Memory Size Wrong

 

[jaydee]

OK, fiddled with the BIOS a little and now I'm back in windows, things are running fine it appears....

Thanks for all the help guys, I'll let you know if anything else comes up.

 

[ScrapSilicon]

Originally posted by: jaydee
OK, fiddled with the BIOS a little and now I'm back in windows, things are running fine it appears....

Thanks for all the help guys, I'll let you know if anything else comes up.

hooray

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I surmised it was the old PSU is losing it's OOMPH issue, glad it's running now