Communists = Democrats

[RY62]

For all of my adult life, until very recently, I considered myself a Democrat. For most of that time, I've not been very happy with extremist views in the party and those extremists seem to have taken control of the party to the point that I felt the need to disassociate. Along the way, I've been doing some reading and comparing the Democrats to the Communists.

It seems to me that the Communist party has almost completely taken control of the Democrat party. From what I can see, there is no difference between the views of the Communist party and todays Democrats. Do you think it's a fair statement to say that Democrats today are actually communists? If not, what exactly differentiates todays democrats from the Communist party, other than the name?

I would love to see the Communists run their own party, let the Republicans have the far right and have the Democrat party represent those in the middle.

Some examples from the Communist Party USA website. Would most of you Dems agree that these are also your views?

http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/511/
The whole page is an interesting read but, below are a couple of snips.

The Communist Party USA is an organization of revolutionaries working to bring about social change in a conscious, progressive direction. We understand the connection between working for democratic reforms and improvements in living standards today, and building a movement large enough and united enough to create revolutionary change and socialism in the future.


Communist Party Immediate Program for the Crisis

It is shameful and unacceptable that any child should live in poverty, and that anyone should go hungry, homeless, without medicine, or without a living wage in our nation of such great wealth.

Meet the Needs of Working, Unemployed and Farm Families
- Raise the minimum wage to $12 an hour.
-Unemployment insurance for all workers.
- Moratorium on farm foreclosures
- Labor law reform to remove barriers to workers who want to join a union.
- No privatization of Social Security. Increase benefits.
- Universal prescription drug coverage administered by Medicare. Universal health care system.
- Restore social safety net. Welfare reform that includes job training, supports and living wages.
- Full funding for equal, quality, bi-lingual public education. No vouchers.

Make Corporate Giants Pay
- Repeal tax cuts to the rich and corporations.
- Close corporate tax loopholes.
- Restitution to workers' pensions.
- Strong regulation of financial industry.
- Regulation and public ownership of utilities
- Prosecute corporate polluters. Public works program to clean our air, water and land
- Aid to cities and states. Federally funded infrastructure repair and social service programs

Foreign Policy for Peace and Justice
- No to war with Iraq - End military interventions
- Repeal Fast Track and NAFTA, stop Free Trade Area of the Americas(FTAA). No secrecy.
- Save Salt II Agreements, reject Star Wars and Nuclear Posture Review
-Abolish nuclear weapons
- End military interventions.
- Cut military budget and fund human needs.

Defend Democracy and Civil Rights
- End racial profiling.
- Repeal the death penalty.
- Enforce civil rights laws and affirmative action.
- Repeal USA Patriot Act.
- Legalization and protection of immigrant>rights.
- Public financing of elections. Overall election law reform including Instant Runoff Voting.
- Youth and student bill of rights. Guarantee youth's right to earn,learn and live.

I'm not trying to say that these points are bad, just that they are a mirror image of the Democrats. I personally believe that there is good and bad on both sides.


Fixed thread title. Original title, Democrats=Communists, was not entirely true. Communists = Democrats, when looking at the Communist Party USA, appears to be a true statement.

 

[ProfJohn]

No, they are socialists more similar to European socialists than communists.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
No, they are socialists more similar to European socialists than communists.

Also from the Communist party link above:

Socialism, in our view, is a precursor to communism. Socialism is a stage of development where society transforms itself into an economic system based on production for use rather than production for profit, where social need plays a much larger role in political and economic decisions, where the "commanding heights of the economy" are socially owned and run on behalf of society, and where people can begin to transform themselves.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
No, they are socialists more similar to European socialists than communists.

Also from the Communist party link above:

Socialism, in our view, is a precursor to communism. Socialism is a stage of development where society transforms itself into an economic system based on production for use rather than production for profit, where social need plays a much larger role in political and economic decisions, where the "commanding heights of the economy" are socially owned and run on behalf of society, and where people can begin to transform themselves.

How about taking the time to spell out what you feel, instead of being lazy and posting quotes about it...

 

[RichardE]

Hmm, some of your statements fit the republican ticket too though. Does that mean both parties are communists? Or could it be socialist ideas are not all bad like we were taught growing up and they do have some benefit?

From your statement though, you won't be able to vote dem, or repub (Since both share traits with the communist party). So who will you vote for now?

 

[sandorski]

Fair? No.

 

[Vic]

No. Socialism means nationalized state-owned industries. Communism is a form of revolutionary socialism.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
No, they are socialists more similar to European socialists than communists.

Also from the Communist party link above:

Socialism, in our view, is a precursor to communism. Socialism is a stage of development where society transforms itself into an economic system based on production for use rather than production for profit, where social need plays a much larger role in political and economic decisions, where the "commanding heights of the economy" are socially owned and run on behalf of society, and where people can begin to transform themselves.

How about taking the time to spell out what you feel, instead of being lazy and posting quotes about it...

The quote, taken directly from the Communst party site, explains that Socialism is a precursor to communism. It explained exactly what I was thinking. A cut and paste served the purpose. As slow as I type you'd be complaining like you were in the other thread when you said "Still awaiting the great enlightenment... "

How about taking the time to answer the questions instead of attacking?

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
No, they are socialists more similar to European socialists than communists.

Also from the Communist party link above:

Socialism, in our view, is a precursor to communism. Socialism is a stage of development where society transforms itself into an economic system based on production for use rather than production for profit, where social need plays a much larger role in political and economic decisions, where the "commanding heights of the economy" are socially owned and run on behalf of society, and where people can begin to transform themselves.

How about taking the time to spell out what you feel, instead of being lazy and posting quotes about it...

The quote, taken directly from the Communst party site, explains that Socialism is a precursor to communism. It explained exactly what I was thinking. A cut and paste served the purpose. As slow as I type you'd be complaining like you were in the other thread when you said "Still awaiting the great enlightenment... "

How about taking the time to answer the questions instead of attacking?

The fact you've taken the idea that the "communst" party = the democratic party forces the onus on you...

So, in your own words - why does x = y?

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Hmm, some of your statements fit the republican ticket too though. Does that mean both parties are communists? Or could it be socialist ideas are not all bad like we were taught growing up and they do have some benefit?

From your statement though, you won't be able to vote dem, or repub (Since both share traits with the communist party). So who will you vote for now?

Like I said, I believe that there is good and bad on both sides. Some of the statements fit any sane person. It just seems that All of the statements fit the Dem party.

As I also said in the OP, why can't the Communist party just run their own candidate? Are people really still so afraid of the name Communist that they wouldn't support the same ideas under that name?

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
No, they are socialists more similar to European socialists than communists.

Also from the Communist party link above:

Socialism, in our view, is a precursor to communism. Socialism is a stage of development where society transforms itself into an economic system based on production for use rather than production for profit, where social need plays a much larger role in political and economic decisions, where the "commanding heights of the economy" are socially owned and run on behalf of society, and where people can begin to transform themselves.

How about taking the time to spell out what you feel, instead of being lazy and posting quotes about it...

The quote, taken directly from the Communst party site, explains that Socialism is a precursor to communism. It explained exactly what I was thinking. A cut and paste served the purpose. As slow as I type you'd be complaining like you were in the other thread when you said "Still awaiting the great enlightenment... "

How about taking the time to answer the questions instead of attacking?

Conservatism is a precursor to fascism. The formation of a national defense is a precursor to genocide. Picking up a steaknife is a precursor to murder or, possibly, eating steak. You posting is a precursor to me thinking some guy on the internet doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Fair? No.

Why not? What do you think the differences are?

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
No, they are socialists more similar to European socialists than communists.

Also from the Communist party link above:

Socialism, in our view, is a precursor to communism. Socialism is a stage of development where society transforms itself into an economic system based on production for use rather than production for profit, where social need plays a much larger role in political and economic decisions, where the "commanding heights of the economy" are socially owned and run on behalf of society, and where people can begin to transform themselves.

How about taking the time to spell out what you feel, instead of being lazy and posting quotes about it...

The quote, taken directly from the Communst party site, explains that Socialism is a precursor to communism. It explained exactly what I was thinking. A cut and paste served the purpose. As slow as I type you'd be complaining like you were in the other thread when you said "Still awaiting the great enlightenment... "

How about taking the time to answer the questions instead of attacking?

Conservatism is a precursor to fascism. The formation of a national defense is a precursor to genocide. Picking up a steaknife is a precursor to murder or, possibly, eating steak. You posting is a precursor to me thinking some guy on the internet doesn't know what he is talking about.

All of these can be true statements, including me not knowing what I'm talking about. But your statement doesn't answer the questions.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: sandorski
Fair? No.

Why not? What do you think the differences are?

Quit asking others to prove a point to you. Make your case, or shut up........

This time, without another quote from another's opinion...........

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
No, they are socialists more similar to European socialists than communists.

Also from the Communist party link above:

Socialism, in our view, is a precursor to communism. Socialism is a stage of development where society transforms itself into an economic system based on production for use rather than production for profit, where social need plays a much larger role in political and economic decisions, where the "commanding heights of the economy" are socially owned and run on behalf of society, and where people can begin to transform themselves.

How about taking the time to spell out what you feel, instead of being lazy and posting quotes about it...

The quote, taken directly from the Communst party site, explains that Socialism is a precursor to communism. It explained exactly what I was thinking. A cut and paste served the purpose. As slow as I type you'd be complaining like you were in the other thread when you said "Still awaiting the great enlightenment... "

How about taking the time to answer the questions instead of attacking?

The fact you've taken the idea that the "communst" party = the democratic party forces the onus on you...

So, in your own words - why does x = y?

I supplied evidence for my thoughts. Read through the Communist party USA website and see if you can find anything that makes them different fom the Dems. They appear to be one in the same, under a different name.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: sandorski
Fair? No.

Why not? What do you think the differences are?

Quit asking others to prove a point to you. Make your case, or shut up........

This time, without another quote from another's opinion...........

Will you please ignore this thread. It's obvious that you don't want to discuss differences or similarities between the parties, which is what I hoped this thread would do.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: sandorski
Fair? No.

Why not? What do you think the differences are?

Quit asking others to prove a point to you. Make your case, or shut up........

This time, without another quote from another's opinion...........

Will you please ignore this thread. It's obvious that you don't want to discuss differences or similarities between the parties, which is what I hoped this thread would do.

If you could present a case for your opinion, I'd happily step aside and just read this thread.

Present case, OP. And that doesn't mean reposting opinions and then wanting others to bicker with you about it.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: Vic
No. Socialism means nationalized state-owned industries. Communism is a form of revolutionary socialism.

I'm not following what your saying. Can Socialism not lead to Communism without revolution? Would that not be the prefered path?

 

[HeXploiT]

Agreed they are socialists not communists. The republican party is very similar.

 

[Farang]

Ok, I'll bite. The positions you've listed are either too vague to make a comparison or are out of line with the Democratic Party.

Not in agreement:
-Raise the minimum wage to $12 an hour.
-Abolish nuclear weapons
-Repeal USA Patriot Act.
-Public financing of elections. Overall election law reform including Instant Runoff Voting.


Too vague. Vague in where we are supposed to draw a distinction--the difference in the two parties will be how far they take their social programs, and we aren't able to judge with these positions:
Strong regulation of financial industry.
- Regulation and public ownership of utilities
- Prosecute corporate polluters. Public works program to clean our air, water and land
- Aid to cities and states. Federally funded infrastructure repair and social service programs

With that said, others are right that you need to prove a point for this to be a worthy discussion. It is like me opening a thread saying "George Bush seems to have a lot in common with rapists. He has sexual intercourse, he has been a substance abuser, he has got a woman pregnant, etc. What is the difference between George Bush and a rapist?"

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: Farang
Ok, I'll bite. The positions you've listed are either too vague to make a comparison or are out of line with the Democratic Party.

Not in agreement:
-Raise the minimum wage to $12 an hour.
-Abolish nuclear weapons
-Repeal USA Patriot Act.
-Public financing of elections. Overall election law reform including Instant Runoff Voting.


Too vague. Vague in where we are supposed to draw a distinction--the difference in the two parties will be how far they take their social programs, and we aren't able to judge with these positions:
Strong regulation of financial industry.
- Regulation and public ownership of utilities
- Prosecute corporate polluters. Public works program to clean our air, water and land
- Aid to cities and states. Federally funded infrastructure repair and social service programs

With that said, others are right that you need to prove a point for this to be a worthy discussion. It is like me opening a thread saying "George Bush seems to have a lot in common with rapists. He has sexual intercourse, he has been a substance abuser, he has got a woman pregnant, etc. What is the difference between George Bush and a rapist?"

My only point was that when I read the linked page from the Communist Party website, it appears to be exactly like the positions of the current Democrat party. Did you read the linked page? The points I posted were not mine, they were copied from that site. I think people are just afraid of the label of Communist, even though they fully agree with the iideas.

Not in agreement:
-Raise the minimum wage to $12 an hour. What was the dollar amount that Clinton recently promised. I could swear it was $12.

-Abolish nuclear weapons
I thought we would all like to see this happen.

-Repeal USA Patriot Act.
Are Dems now in favor of the Patriot act?

-Public financing of elections. Overall election law reform including Instant Runoff Voting.
I know this has been an issue of this election cycle.

I agree some of the points are vague and like I said some of the points any sane person would agree to but most all are lockstep with the far left of the Dem party.

 

[Moonbeam]

Socialism, in our view, is a precursor to communism. Socialism is a stage of development where society transforms itself into an economic system based on production for use rather than production for profit, where social need plays a much larger role in political and economic decisions, where the "commanding heights of the economy" are socially owned and run on behalf of society, and where people can begin to transform themselves.

Hehe, what a pile of crap. What would cause a society to reach a stage of development where it transforms itself. The development would be the transformation. What is going to bring it about? A gun? And who determines what social needs are? The transformation would be a transformation of need. And what difference does it make who owns what in a transformed world. Private owners transformed would make what people need. No, communism and socialism are just a few transformed assholes telling the untransformed what's good for them.

There is only one revolution and it is Jihad, the war against the commanding self, the ego and all its illnesses. There is only one transformation that matters and that is real self love. It is the true nature of human beings to care for each other but all that dies in children for being put down.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: Vic
No. Socialism means nationalized state-owned industries. Communism is a form of revolutionary socialism.

I'm not following what your saying. Can Socialism not lead to Communism without revolution? Would that not be the prefered path?

Communism requires violent revolution by definition. And it's not the "preferred path" (whatever that means), it's communism's biggest flaw. Force and absolute power together lead to bad things.

 

[ProfJohn]

The Democrats want a system similar to Sweden and other nordic countries.

A highly regulated free market economy with high taxes that provide TONS of social services to everyone.

That is no where near communism. Get a clue already.

Communism = state control of the economy and no Democrat is even suggesting that.

If your OP proves anything it is that the US Communist Party is not a real communist party. It is the communists who look like Democrats, not the other way around.

 

[wirelessenabled]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The Democrats want a system similar to Sweden and other nordic countries.

A highly regulated free market economy with high taxes that provide TONS of social services to everyone.

That is no where near communism. Get a clue already.

Communism = state control of the economy and no Democrat is even suggesting that.

If your OP proves anything it is that the US Communist Party is not a real communist party. It is the communists who look like Democrats, not the other way around.

Similarly the Republican Party wants a non-regulated monopolistic economy with high borrowing by the Federal Government to provide TONS of subsidies only to large corporations and the wealthy.

That is no where near a free market economy. Get a clue already.