The point is that Mr. Millionaire with $990,000 left after taxes is probably not going to be able to spend all of his money, while the guy with $9,900 is going to have to spend all of his money.
The guy that spends all of his money also has to pay sales tax on ALL of his money. If a sales tax is 6%, then 6% of his spendable income goes to taxes.
Mr Millionaire, who doesn't spend all of his money is not going to have 6% of all of it taxed, he will be paying a lower percentage in sales taxes.
The income tax is set up to balance this out.
How about looking at it this way:
If you are moving and you have Woody Allen and Arnold Schwarzenegger to help you, would you have both of them carrying lamps or both of them moving chairs and armoirs? Or would you make the one that can handle a bigger burden carry a heavier load?
I think anybody with a brain knows that...what this article has done is taken a few characteristics of what we know to be quasi-communism (i.e. Stalinism) and drawn some sort of parallels to US culture, then come to the conclusion that Communism is down the road in say, a hundred years.
I could do the same thing with our country and Hitler, and claim that we are headed for an Aryan facist nation.
but why were these jobs sent overseas in the first place? Why do you think a company finds it cheaper to hire someone on the other side of the world to do the work, then ship it across the ocean, and still sell it cheaper? its the same "Progressive" thinking that caused this. The labor unions got pissed that the CEO weas making a lot of money so they demanded higher pay or a strike, well then the same people also want everything cheap, but you cant have your cake and eat it too. Foreign companies come in and start taking over the markets. If it hadnt been for the short sighted progressiveness the union leaders and liberals use to get themselves elected, we wouldnt have this problem. And now people are whining about jobs going overseas, well, which do you want, cheap stuff or high paying jobs? no economy can support both.
This is off the topic of income-based taxation in the first place.
I'm for a flat tax plan that includes ALL INCOME, no matter the source, payroll, capital gains, dividends, etc. its the only way to be fair.
biostud
Lifer
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Denial of religion = human rights (freedom to believe what we want)
Denial of property rights = communism and fascism
denial of firearms = WTF!!!! it has absolutely nothing to do with communism, you know communists like to revolt to throw over the capitalists so they want a peoples army
denial of freedom of speech = communism and fascism
denial of free enterprise and commercialism = communism and fascism
elimination of the upper class = communism, but if you look at the society the upper class is becomeing more and more powerfull and rich so again fascism
I like this, because this is more or less how entire europe looks like.
It would be totally unfair. People do not have the same amount of money. Money is essentially government credit. Why would the government demand a higher percentage of it's credit back from those that have less credit and need the credit more. It is not logical.
Oh and blaming unions for the disappearance of manufacturing jobs is silly. Japan, China and other export nations would have provided cheaper labour than anything the US could provide anyway. The reason for the loss of manufacturing jobs in the US is the way the world economy is set up, not unions. The US is an import economy while nearly all the rest are export economies.
did you even read what I posted? EQUAL percentage from everyone. Why does every attempt at creating a flat tax have people thinking its unfair to the poor, if everyone pays 20% then EVERYONE pays 20% how hard is this to understand? Quit trying to twist it into the exact opposite.
And what does "The US is an Import Economy and all the rest are Export economies" have to do with my argument? im trying to say it wouldnt have gotten this way if we werent pricing our own labor out of the global market. Wouldnt it be nice if we were making all the stuff we buy? wouldnt that make sense? Factor in the cost of shipping goods across the pacific ocean and we have a nice cushion for our labor.
how are we supposed to have high Paying Jobs and cheap imported goods? it just cant happen.
Because poor people have much smaller economic margins.
The dollar reserve system has forced export nations to export very cheap goods to the US. This is good for the US economy because the export nations then buy dollars for the profits they make. This is bad for US manufacturing because it floods the US with goods much cheaper than it is profitable to manufacture in the US. The US cannot compete with it's own economic system on the manufacturing front which is why manufacturing jobs are disappearing overseas to export economies who are addicted to it (like China). In a way the loss of manufacturing jobs is the price the US pays for the current economic setup.
20% to one person means missing meals or rent, but to another person 20% means missing their 3rd Hummer purchase. Hardly an equal sacrifice. Try adjusting from a $15k budget to a $12k budget, and then from a $150k budget to a $120k budget, and tell me it's the same sacrifice. :roll:
America could bear to be a bit more socialist, but if we're "inching" there it's far too slowly for my taste.
Edit: BTW, I could see supporting a flat tax as long as sales taxes were high and "luxury" taxes even higher.
America could bear to be a bit more socialist, but if we're "inching" there it's far too slowly for my taste.
Edit: BTW, I could see supporting a flat tax as long as sales taxes were high and "luxury" taxes even higher.
Fine, then what about 20% of a $24,001 salary?
We can argue case scenarios all day, but instead of discussing fringe cases ad nauseum if you actually try and discuss examples which are clearly situated in the middle of the debate you usually get somewhere.
glad you pointed that out, I guess I assumed everyone knew that the idea of a "poverty line" would be left intact.
That makes the point less dramatic, but not quite moot. One still faces different choices paring down from $40k to $36.8k than when paring down from $400k to $324.8k. In some parts of the country, $24k would indeed protect the funds needed to afford basic needs, but in the major metropolitan areas with high costs of living, I would feel more comfortable with a higher floor.
How socialist of you to be fine with that "to each according to his need" concept. We'll make a commie out of you yet...
ahh crap, im walking on egg shells around here.Originally posted by: naddicott
How socialist of you to be fine with that "to each according to his need" concept. We'll make a commie out of you yet...
I strongly disagree with your first part where you say america could stand to be more socialist, however your edit I agree with 100%...I am all for a flat tax with luxury items being grossly overtaxed whether it be cars, jewelery or whatever as those are OPTIONAL purchases that are not at all necessary. Also I could stand for a much higher sales tax if I was paying a reasonable flat tax.
higher sales tax? great, so the poor who have to scrimp and save to eat will be hurt even more, while Paris Hilton just gets to feel even more special becuase here dresses and jewelry are even more expensive??
These simple ideas by equating social changes to "communism" are ridiculous. If anything, we are more entrenched in free market economics than we ever have been. Trade, open exchange of ideas and the internet have given us more democracy and choice than ever before.
The tactics used by these writers are fairly simple. If the supreme court rules that Under God goes against seperation of church and state, then we must be headed towards communism. Forget about the fact that all Americans are free to practice as they please, but a legal ruling means we are headed towards purgatory. If highly lethal weapons that are made to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible are regulated, we are headed to a police state. Forget the fact that you can walk in to any gun store and pick enough weapons to create Waco 2 or Columbine 2 within minutes.
When the federal governement, already burdened by new wars on terrorism and other social problems decides to raise taxes at the expense of the people that have benefited most from our capitalist system, its another clear sign of communism.
The trend is clear. Instead of debating the issues, they resort to simplistic, if not idiotic commentary by attaching the stigma of communism to every mainstream issue. This article is pure bs, IMHO
The tactics used by these writers are fairly simple. If the supreme court rules that Under God goes against seperation of church and state, then we must be headed towards communism. Forget about the fact that all Americans are free to practice as they please, but a legal ruling means we are headed towards purgatory. If highly lethal weapons that are made to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible are regulated, we are headed to a police state. Forget the fact that you can walk in to any gun store and pick enough weapons to create Waco 2 or Columbine 2 within minutes.
When the federal governement, already burdened by new wars on terrorism and other social problems decides to raise taxes at the expense of the people that have benefited most from our capitalist system, its another clear sign of communism.
The trend is clear. Instead of debating the issues, they resort to simplistic, if not idiotic commentary by attaching the stigma of communism to every mainstream issue. This article is pure bs, IMHO
crazy I don't know what ass backwards state you live in but here and any of the three states I lived in the past few years did not charge sales tax on FOOD, maybe paper goods and what not but basic necessities are not taxed, the only time food is taxed is when you got out to eat and it is prepaired for you and last time I checked that is a LUXURY....even clothing here in MA is only taxed when it is over a hundred dollars or something and that is per item I believe. Keep trying though as you might get something to stick sooner or later.
if you think about it why not tax luxury items at a higher rate as they are truly un-necessary...with re. shrimp and lobster then maybe
thats what a luxery tax IS, hence the reason its called a luxury taxOriginally posted by: bozack
if you think about it why not tax luxury items at a higher rate as they are truly un-necessary...with re. shrimp and lobster then maybe
its already in place in most states (and possibly at a federal level in some cases), im pretty sure boats are subject to luxury tax, and clothing over $65 per item in some states, $100 or $200 in others. Even sports equipment in some states, some tax only equipment thats not "protective" (i.e. tax the bat, not the helmet
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