Come Talk to Me, Processor Stuff

[Jila]

Ive been building computers for years now, its my hobby, its my job, I just enjoy it. I currently run a P4 3.0 Prescott, that I picked up real cheap. I used to overclock it but I backed it down a few months ago on a case rebuild to help elimate some noise. Anyway, Im not going to bore you with speccs and all that jazz. Why Im hear is because as of late Ive been way behind on keeping up with hardware. I know whats out and what its supposed to do and all, but Im just a little lacking on the know how to make a decision.

A friend of mine is running an one of my old computer I made WAY back in the day. Ill tell you what is is then you'll be like, WOW she still uses that? Anyway, its an old Thunderbird 750 thats running @ 1000. (Little AMD props, Its been running @ 1g since I purchased it new roughly 6 or 7 years ago. Not a single problem EVER!) Up until recently she has never really needed more of a computer, she didnt play games (accept the Sims), or rip media, edit pictures or video, etc. All she did was use MS Office products, Winamp, and surf the web. Well, she starting her new job as a teacher and this computer is beggining not to cut it anymore. Starting to do a lot more on her computer, and she has also started playing WoW, so its time for an upgrade. Oops I rambled a bit in there, sorry about that.

Back to the point, I want to build myself a new computer and sell/give my current computer to her. I would like to go 64 bit, and I would like to go back to AMD. I do not want to spend a bunch of money right now on a new dual core chip (unless its the smart decision), but I dont want to be cheap about it either. So all this comes down to is, whats the best bang for my buck? Should I go dual core, even though my needs dont really require it? Obvously I dont want to go backwards from my current machine. Also, if you have read this far, I appreaciate your time, however I must ask a favor, if you reply, please make it more than just a simeple line of "buy an AMD xxxxxxx". Please give me a little more info than that. I would appreaciate it.

Regards

 

[Chocolate Pi]

At the moment, AMD's dual core processors (X2) are really amazing if you are willing to pay for them ($400+) They'll perform just as good at single core applications while allowing you to run stuff in the background with no compromise. They are also very cool running. It all comes down to if you ever run multiple applications at once, which I think most people do.

If you need something cheaper, a new Athlon 64 3000+ with the Venice core will overlcok incredibly well, possibly from 1.8 Ghz to 2.7 Ghz on air! That much is lucky but not uncommon at all. My older Winchester goes to 2.5 easily. Here are the prices and speeds:

Athlon 64 Venice Core (512KB cache)
3000+ 1.8Ghz ~$150
3200+ 2.0Ghz ~$190
3500+ 2.2 Ghz ~$230
3800+ 2.4 Ghz ~$330

Athlon 64 San Diego Core (1MB cache)
3700+ 2.2 Ghz ~$300
4000+ 2.4 Ghz ~$400
FX-55 2.6Ghz ~$800 (unlocked)
FX-57 2.8Ghz ~$1000 (unlocked)

Athlon 64 X2 Manchester Core (2 x 512KB cache)
3800+ 2.0Ghz ~$370
4200+ 2.2Ghz ~$500
4600+ 2.4Ghz ~$700

Athlon 64 X2 Toledo Core (2 x 1MB cache)
4400+ 2.2Ghz $600
4800+ 2.4Ghz $1000

 

[proxopspete]

Well, you don't need an X2 unless you do some serious computing... like gaming while downloading or encoding or such.

I'd recommend going Socket 939 route with Venice core 3500+ ($235 from Monarch).
That way you are not spending too much but leave room for upgrade in the future. Just get a good mobo like DFI NF4 Ultra series...

 

[Jila]

Thanks for the replys.

Chocolate Pi, that a lot of info, thanks. As for prices, I start climbing the chain ........ well if Im spending this much, why not spend a little more and get the next one up. Then Im getting closer to the dual core, and I decide to jump to it. Is their a good place to stay in the middle. proxopspete mentioned the 3500+, then next jump up is almost $100. Is this a good middle range chip as far as price goes? Is the next step up worth the $70 - $100?

I had planned on going with a 939 socket and with the newest chipset I could get. Ill check out the DFI mobos, Im more of an Abit fan, and Im sure they make comparable mobo. If not Im not afraid to try something new.

 

[proxopspete]

I don't think spending extra $100 is worth it at that speed. Extra 512 kB of L2 cache is not a HUUUGE gain. And you could easily OC that 3500+ to 4000+ speed anyhow. Either save that $100 for future upgrades or spend it on good memory.

 

[Jila]

Thats kinda what i figured, just wanted to get a second opinion. Thanks for your time.

 

[TGS]

Save the hundred and put that towards another gig of ram, or a video card bump.

Edit: Throw down a budget, and I'm sure we can put up some good suggestions on what might fit you.

 

[Jila]

The real killer in my project is my video card. I currently run a eVGA 6800GT AGP card. However, upgrading means moving to PCI-X and thus almost doubling my cost of upgrading. I would have pulled the trigger a long time ago if I did not have to upgrade my video card. I right at about $700 and Im missing RAM and a power supply(mine is fine, but need one to pass along as I believe my fiends is a cheapo 300w). Items Im looking at are

Proc
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103533

Video: Im torn, Leadtek is cheaper, but I love my eVGA and its lifetime warranty.
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814122209
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130215

Mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813127207

I currently run 1GB of Kinston HyperX 3200. I plan on taking that to my new comp, and buy some value ram of some sort to pass along.

 

[TGS]

If you aren't opposed to overclocking. Scale down to a 3000+ venice. Selling the 6800gt for 2-250, you could parlay that into a 7800. Think a 150-200 dollar upgrade from a 6800gt

The 3000+ should easily hit 2.4 or better. Most likely I'll be doing the same. Grab a PCIE board, 24-pin psu, and a dfi board. Upgrade the 6800gt to a 7800.

 

[Griffinhart]

Originally posted by: proxopspete
Well, you don't need an X2 unless you do some serious computing... like gaming while downloading or encoding or such.

Well, the X2 is an advantage for more than that. That's just the multitasking advantage. Just encoding alone is a big boost, with or without gaming. If you do any photo editing, it will be faster on an X2 as well.

There are also other benefits as well. Like being able to window out of any game you are running quickly to launch other apps like Ventrillo/teamspeak, FRAPS, or what ever you may want or need. While certainly not needed, really makes life easier. The way Broadband made life better than dial-up. You didn't "need" broadband, but I'd sure hate to go back. >

When you factor in that the X2 3800+ gets very similar gaming performance (sometimes less, sometimes more) to the 3500+ single core, it makes the X2 a very attractive Processor.

A 4000+ may get better framerates than the x2 3800+, but it's less about framerates and more about a better overall computing experience. Especially when anyone would be hard pressed to notice any difference in gaming performance between the two.

 

[Jila]

I currenty run a Zalman 400w PSU woud this be enough for a 7800? I read that it needs a 450w PSU, just wondering if maybe they are asking for overkill as I thought its supposed to use less power than a 6800 Ultra.

Currently Im looking having the following 2 Systems. The Intel will be go away and the AMD will replace it. Items with an * are parts that I will be buying.

System 1:
Intel P4 3.0 Prescott
Abit IC7-G Max 2
1GB (2x512MB) Kinston ValueRAM 3200*
Nvidia FX5200 128MB

System 2:
AMD 64 3000+*
DFI Lanpary nF4 Ultra*
1GB (2x512MB) Kinston HyperX 3200
eVGA 7800GTX*

Parts that Im stuck on:

Spending the extra $ on the better video card. I know its better, but is it worth the extra money? I currently run an Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 4 on my current 6800GT. Would it be better for me to get another 6800GT, use the cooler, overclock the video card, and put the extra money into a better Processor?

Depending on which video card I buy, I may have to buy a better PSU for myself. Any suggestions on PSU's? Im a fan of Zalman and certain Antec PSU. Any models or brands to look at?

With the parts listed above I am at $714 and I would probably still need a PSU, not to mention a heatsink/fan for the proc. If you were spending around that much what would you buy?

 

[proxopspete]

7800 GTX is overkill in my opinion... my 2 cents.
Just get a PCI-E version of 6800GT. Top of the line is usually for the rich and ... well, the rich! 7800GTX will depreciate to at least 2/3 of its value in a year's time or so. But if you must, get 7800GT instead. 4 pipes less but still better than the 6800 Ultra.

 

[Jila]

Thats my thoughts too, but I wanted to kinda get a poll and see what other thought as well. Im thinking Im gonna drop back down to the 6800GT, save the $160, run my cooler on it, and OC it again past 6800 Ultra speeds. This would also keep me from buying an expensive PSU to power toeh 7800, I still need one, but I dont need a 450+ one.

 

[feelthaflo]

Let's see...874? And you're looking at mobo, processor, RAM, and video, right? I would go with my current setup with an x800xl (mine's coming in this weekend). Processor = ~150, RAM = ~85, Mobo = ~90, Gfx = ~300, then another ~100 for an Antec Neo480 and you're set for about 725. You could bump up to a DFI motherboard for about another 50, so right under 800 bucks. I personally don't like the non-SLI DFI boards because they all have 2 PCI-e 16 slots for no apparent reason. The NF4-Ultra chipset only adds a secondary gigabit LAN and SATAII, so they are really not worth the price difference unless you need these particular features.

Oops, you already have the memory, excellent choice. The Kingston Value that you need to buy should be right around the cost of the Corsair I have (though the CAS is 3 instead of 2.5 I believe) If you're not going SLI, then I would definitely recommend the x800xl, by far the best bang-for-your-buck video card available right now. It is also Crossfire ready when that eventually comes out.

 

[imported_SLIM]

If you really want to keep that 6800GT, you could always get a nforce3 250gb based board. It's socket 939 and agp, and doesn't sacrifice much if anything compared to the nforce4 (sataII and pci-e are the only things that come to mind). The MSI, epox and DFI boards were all quite good. I'm not sure about the dual core support of those boards though (it's theoretically possible for any socket 939 board to support dual core with the right bios).

EDIT: Other option is to sell 6800gt for 250 bucks, and buy x800xl for 250 bucks. It's pretty much a lateral move performance wise (little faster directx/little slower opengl) and you get a pci-e video card for that new nforce4 board.

 

[feelthaflo]

I do believe that 6800GT's are relatively rare in AGP form, so selling one might not be too hard. Try posting it in the items for sale section here.

 

[Jila]

Well it sure would be nice if I could add, that number above should read $714. Thats with everything in my above post with an * by it.

The cheapest DFI SLI board I saw on newegg, is $125, to move to the Ultra chipset is only $7. Didnt think much of it, but $7 is $7.

Let me see what I can find, Id prefer to stay PCIE in case I ever want to go SLI. I like my 6800GT a lot, does everyhting I need of it. If ATI's is the same and it does not cost anything and lets me move to PCIE, I will have to check that out.

Thanks for you input.

 

[Jila]

So

ATI X800XL PCIE @ $320 = eVGA Nvidia 6800GT PCIE @ $345

?????????????

All prices are from newegg


I wish I could type today, all my edits are for typos

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Jila
So

ATI X800XL PCIE @ $320 = eVGA Nvidia 6800GT PCIE @ $345

?????????????

All prices are from newegg


I wish I could type today, all my edits are for typos

Cheaper Price for the X800XL

 

[feelthaflo]

What do you mean, = ? They have the same number of pipes, but the ati is by engineering better at rendering frames with aa and af set higher. The nVidia might be better at pure speed without all the goodies, but there are more important things to some people. Also, the 6800's core clock is lower, which kind of offsets the 'pure speed' performance difference in the two cards. I would go with the x800xl hands down unless you're thinking about sli, but, like I said before, x800xl's will be crossfire-compatible when it comes to fruition. You might try checking out other brands of x800xl's, because ati's is a little pricey.

Check out this ASUS:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814121530

 

[Bona Fide]

Here's my recommended barebone setup. Peripherals are up to you.

Processor - Venice 3000+ or 3200+
Motherboard - EPoX 9NPA+ Ultra
Memory - 2x1GB Corsair ValueSelect
Graphics - ATI Radeon X800XL or Geforce 6800GT
Hard Drive - Seagate or Samsung...at least 120GB
Case - Antec Sonata II (Comes with 450W Antec Smartpower II)

 

[feelthaflo]

That's a good call bona fide. I've heard the epox is an excellent overclocker, however, and spending more for the 3200 would be a waste of money, since all venice cores are capable of the same potential clocks. An extra 50 bucks for a multiplier bump doesn't seem worth it to me (I saved a bunch of money with mine, running rock-solid at 2.4 now).

 

[Bona Fide]

Originally posted by: feelthaflo
That's a good call bona fide. I've heard the epox is an excellent overclocker, however, and spending more for the 3200 would be a waste of money, since all venice cores are capable of the same potential clocks. An extra 50 bucks for a multiplier bump doesn't seem worth it to me (I saved a bunch of money with mine, running rock-solid at 2.4 now).

Well I guess it's up to him. If he has the money, he should get the 3200+. The extra multiplier will mean a less drastic FSB bump.

 

[feelthaflo]

Yeah, it would be easier to stabilize I guess. Depends on the resources available. I definitely wouldn't pay for more than that though.

 

[Jila]

Thanks everyone, I think I have it down now on what Im going to get. feelthaflo, my = question, you answered it exactly how I wanted. I was just wondering how they compared to eachother. I havent had a ATI card since my 64MB Radeon. Anyway, here is whats in my cart currently.

AMD 3000+ Venice
EPoX EP-9NPA+ SLi
HIS Hightech Radeon X800XL
Kingston ValueRAM 1GB (2 x 512MB)
Antec NeoPower 480w PSU

Anyone have any comments on any brands or items I choose?