Combining a peltier with TR-120

[trinislacker]

combining a peltier with a great air cooler, like TR-120 X

I'm almost sure this would provide subambient Cpu temps if not below zero if combined with a decent fan and powerful enough peltier..say 226watts

for people with Ultra 120 extreme already the equipment need would be minimal:

226w peltier.....$35
two coldplates..$10
insulation........<$20

total expense with be below $65

whats your take on this?is this even possible?has any of you tried this before?

it would be great to hear your thoughts on this

 

[n00b 0f l337]

No, won't work. 226 watt peltier will move 226 watts to be cooled by your aircooler, PLUS an additional 320 watts that the peltier will turn to heat. The air cooler will be insanely overloaded.

 

[trinislacker]

i think it is doable and would be a lot less heat that you assume seeing that water cooled versions handle this very well and air cooling now isn't as far off..but i don't expect cooling as good as water though

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: trinislacker
i think it is doable and would be a lot less heat that you assume seeing that water cooled versions handle this very well and air cooling now isn't as far off..but i don't expect cooling as good as water though

im sorry did you not read nol's explaination? He happens to be one of the best phase unit builders you can hire. Not to mention one hell of a experienced person when it comes to sub degree cooling.

He says you need to unload 226+320 = 546W of heat. How is a TR120 supposed to do that?


Also you forgot to add the cost of a PSU. There is no way in hell your current PSU can be moded to take that kind of wattage off that tec. You risk a seriously dangerous event by doing that.

 

[trinislacker]

the reason i think it should work is there are several air cooled TEC's readymade example monsoon which anandtech had reviewed and which if i remembered correctly obtained highest overclock...

maybe the peltier to use shouldn't be 226watts but one similar to what the monsoon has, i am not sure what wattage was used with that cooler...this should yield better results than the monsoon seeing that a better heatsink would be used and a better fan as well

EDIT: I'm am a bit confused about the level of heat ...i am not no expert on TEC's but according to my understanding a 226 watts TEC would only unload 226watts of heat plus processor heat...if its a stock Quad that would be 226+100ish...TEC wouldn't generate 320 heat as 226 watts is already the heat generated...well thats my understanding...I"m sure i could be wrong but it'll be nice if that could be cleared up

 

[A5]

Originally posted by: trinislacker
the reason i think it should work is there are several air cooled TEC's readymade example monsoon which anandtech had reviewed and which if i remembered correctly obtained highest overclock...

maybe the peltier to use shouldn't be 226watts but one similar to what the monsoon has, i am not sure what wattage was used with that cooler...this should yield better results than the monsoon seeing that a better heatsink would be used and a better fan as well

EDIT: I'm am a bit confused about the level of heat ...i am not no expert on TEC's but according to my understanding a 226 watts TEC would only unload 226watts of heat plus processor heat...if its a stock Quad that would be 226+100ish...TEC wouldn't generate 320 heat as 226 watts is already the heat generated...well thats my understanding...I"m sure i could be wrong but it'll be nice if that could be cleared up

IIRC, a 226W rating means that it is always removing 226W of energy, and since the proc isn't running at absolute zero, there's enough heat there to move that much.

Since the peltier unit is not 100% efficient, it requires more than 226W of power (and therefore heat) to move the 226 J/S (aka W) from the cold plate to the hot plate. So you have to dissipate the 226+W from the unit itself plus the 226W it is removing from the load.

I think the Monsoon has a 90W peltier as it's unit, but I may be wrong.

 

[aigomorla]

60W downvolted TEC for the monsoon. And it sucks. Dont get into the monsoon hype. The thermalright Ultra120 will own it on any test bed across the board. Only if you dont overclock the CPU, will the monsoon show TEC's power.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...showthread.php?t=38367

Good resource for you to read. Should show you why your tec idea wont work period.

 

[trinislacker]

read that article before and i believe some where it does suggest it may be possible to do what i was thinking and seeing that that article was written about 3 years ago heatsinks have become better at thermal transfers and processors now consume less power so if in that article it was stated that it may be possible back then...it probably maybe be more than likely now..just my two cents

 

[trinislacker]

found this after doing some searching...guess someone taught off this long before I did but his setup seems to work

http://www.techenclave.com/for...uad-4ghz-8c-97914.html

page 4 shows his setup..

now can someone less try this to verify it works

 

[Quiksilver]

Why did you bother asking us if it would work or not if your not going to take the word of an experience phase builder? I mean honesty if you believe it will work and that you can believe that so called evidence then go for it. There is no reason why we should put our chips on the line just to prove you wrong.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: QuiksilverX1
Why did you bother asking us if it would work or not if your not going to take the word of an experience phase builder? I mean honesty if you believe it will work and that you can believe that so called evidence then go for it. There is no reason why we should put our chips on the line just to prove you wrong.

he's not only one of the greatest phase builders, id say = or greater then chilly and jinu themselves.

But he has his own TEC article. Took me a while to dig it up but here it is.

Nol = n00b incase u didnt know. And yeah, i had this conversation with him a while back ago, with him going no, no, no, no, no, yes you'll burn a lot of energy for crap, no, no, no.



http://www.overclock.net/pelti...ide-guide-1-basic.html

 

[trinislacker]

thanks for that article read it before ..but a while a back

Cooling a Peltier

A peltier produces quite a load of heat. It can be calculated as the wattage output of the peltier plus the wattage output of the item being cooled. So a 320 watt peltier chilling a 100 watt cpu will produce 420 watts of heat to the hot side that needs to be removed.

so according to the article a 226 watt peltier would dumb about 320 watts of heat with a quad and below 300 with a duo

so was n00b 0f l337 initial calculations of heat dumb would be a bit off or am i still missing something??


QuiksilverX1 I'm not asking people to just try it i want to know if anybody has already.

 

[tylerdustin2008]

People have tried it just for fun, just to do it. That hsf was not made for a tec, therefore should not be used for one. If you want cold temps, buy the actual things needed to do so. Oh and do you know how loud that monsoon is? Its loud just with a lower wattage tec. Oh another thing, this I have done. If the hot side gets to hot it WILL burn up the tec.

Its not smart to try it.

 

[trinislacker]

from what i have read the monsoon is a great cooler and this design should only drastically improve from that cooler

92mm to 120mm higher cfm fan
better heatsink

if the monsoon works why shouldn't this??

 

[tylerdustin2008]

Noob told you why above. Read it, read it, and read it again.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: trinislacker
from what i have read the monsoon is a great cooler and this design should only drastically improve from that cooler

92mm to 120mm higher cfm fan
better heatsink

if the monsoon works why shouldn't this??

If you use the same size peltier, maybe might be fine. But you are talking about using quite a huge peltier. Let me quote NoL:

Originally posted by: n00b 0f l337
No, won't work. 226 watt peltier will move 226 watts to be cooled by your aircooler, PLUS an additional 320 watts that the peltier will turn to heat. The air cooler will be insanely overloaded.

I don't think ANY aircooler could handle all that heat.

OK, let's put it this way... You asked if it would work, people told you no, and you insist that it should. Well, if you don't want to take the advice then maybe you should go ahead and do it - just don't be surprised when it doesn't work, you burn something up, etc...

 

[tylerdustin2008]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO


If you use the same size peltier, maybe might be fine. But you are talking about using quite a huge peltier. Let me quote NoL:

Originally posted by: n00b 0f l337
No, won't work. 226 watt peltier will move 226 watts to be cooled by your aircooler, PLUS an additional 320 watts that the peltier will turn to heat. The air cooler will be insanely overloaded.

I don't think ANY aircooler could handle all that heat.

OK, let's put it this way... You asked if it would work, people told you no, and you insist that it should. Well, if you don't want to take the advice then maybe you should go ahead and do it - just don't be surprised when it doesn't work, you burn something up, etc...

QFT

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

OK, let's put it this way... You asked if it would work, people told you no, and you insist that it should. Well, if you don't want to take the advice then maybe you should go ahead and do it - just don't be surprised when it doesn't work, you burn something up, etc...

for this i requote this:

Originally posted by: aigomorla

You risk a seriously dangerous event by doing that.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

OK, let's put it this way... You asked if it would work, people told you no, and you insist that it should. Well, if you don't want to take the advice then maybe you should go ahead and do it - just don't be surprised when it doesn't work, you burn something up, etc...

for this i requote this:

Originally posted by: aigomorla

You risk a seriously dangerous event by doing that.

Hey, he was warned, so I figure if he doesn't want to heed the warning then that's up to him.

 

[trinislacker]

I just suggest a peltier because i wasn't sure what was used on the monsoon but since it uses 50w under full load then its probably an undervolted 80w