PJABBER
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
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Why a fail? I am curious as to what someone would do if they actually faced here what is being faced around the world?
I use a very specific example - Honduras - where the Obama Administration is supporting the "right" of an elected President (Zelaya) to violate the tenets of their Constitution in an attempt to secure an extension of the term in office indefinitely (also more commonly known by the prevailing job title - El Presidente For Life.)
The Honduran Congress, their Supreme Court, Zelaya's own party said enough is enough and threw the guy out of the country. He's baaaaaaack, and so is the question of what do you do when faced with a Constitutional challenge of this type?
- Oct 30, 2000
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The military does what is asked of them within the contraints/ROE provided by the politicians.
If you do not provide the tools; do not blame them for a botched job.
It's not just fail. It's EPIC FAIL because neither of your dumbass propositions is going to happen, here. They're just yet more examples of your irrational, foam at the mouth fear mongering. :thumbsdown:
Are you sure you're not Glenn Beck?
Sedition anyone? I would think that the Secret Service is investigating this, what appears on its face to be treasonous behavior. I'm glad to read this guy's article. Because it means the idiots are finally out of ammo. Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, and these people have finally pumped the well dry.
Chickenhawks lose again. The military has always been subordinate to the civilian authority. This NewsMax writer is probably just another armchair war hawk, pounding Coors Lights while yelling grunts of approval while watching Hannity. I wouldn't use the word "conservative" to describe this guy. Dumbass is a more apt term.
Chickenhawks lose again. The military has always been subordinate to the civilian authority. This NewsMax writer is probably just another armchair war hawk, pounding Coors Lights while yelling grunts of approval while watching Hannity. I wouldn't use the word "conservative" to describe this guy. Dumbass is a more apt term.
Depends on the reason for the former. If there is a good enough reason, then I would not mind (pretty sure I would be occupied thinking about the results of the reason). President for life was how it used to be. 150 of our years as a nation did not have any problem with re-re-re- electing a president. After FDR it was suddenly a problem. Amendments may be repealed. If he attempted to circumnavigate the methods to repeal the amendment, I am sure I will not need to act, this is why we have checks and balances.
First, the Honduran Constitution authorized the President's removal. It didn't authorize his expatriation.
Second, assume, that everything done to the Honduran President was constitutional, and, therefore, Obama should not be opposing it. Do you not see the, um, incongruity that it is legitimate to consider an unconstitutional military coup against the President of the United States?
Tell you what, when someone stops you from voting, I'll be right behind you in supporting the revolution. Until then, try rereading your Constitution. Or read it for the first time. Its got a whole part about how you remove the President from office - hell, you can even use it if the President lies about getting a blowjob?
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
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Ah, but he doesn't think that. It's merely a question to stir the animosity. Beck does it too. He's not saying the president would do it, just that he might do it. I mean, it's a harmless question. Right?
"What if Obama uses his executive power to order billions in reparations be paid to descendants of slaves? Now, I'm not saying he's going to do it, but what would you do if he did?"
Just heat that pot to a boil and when it overflows disavow any responsibility whatsoever. You were just asking questions.
PJABBER
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
- 0
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Originally posted by: Harvey
It's not just fail. It's EPIC FAIL because neither of your dumbass propositions is going to happen, here. They're just yet more examples of your irrational, foam at the mouth fear mongering. :thumbsdown:
Are you sure you're not Glenn Beck?
No, I am definitely not Glen Beck, though I wish I made as much money as he does!
You always seem to jump in with a Bush bashing comment, but Bush did not support imposing a dictatorship on any democratic country during his terms in office, while Obama manifestly has.
I know other Administrations chose to support dictators for expediency during the Cold War and we can argue the effectiveness of that in a separate thread.
As much as I try to understand the Administration policy in support of Zelaya, someone attempting to circumvent a Constitution that was specifically written after a history of military rule and specifically crafted to never allow such a thing as a "Dictator For Life" to occur, I cannot.
Perhaps you might have a defense handy for the Obama Administration to go along with your ceaseless and unsupported attacks on the prior Administration? Foaming at the mouth is entirely optional, of course. :laugh:
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: PJABBER
Originally posted by: Harvey
It's not just fail. It's EPIC FAIL because neither of your dumbass propositions is going to happen, here. They're just yet more examples of your irrational, foam at the mouth fear mongering. :thumbsdown:
Are you sure you're not Glenn Beck?
No, I am definitely not Glen Beck, though I wish I made as much money as he does!
You always seem to jump in with a Bush bashing comment, but Bush did not support dictatorship in his terms in office, while Obama manifestly has.
I know other Administrations chose to support dictators for expediency during the Cold War and we can argue the effectiveness of that in a separate thread.
As much as I try to understand the Administration policy in support of Zelaya, someone attempting to circumvent a Constitution that was specifically written after a history of military rule and specifically crafted to never allow such a thing as a "Dictator For Life" to occur, I cannot.
Perhaps you might have a defense handy for the Obama Administration to go along with your ceaseless and unsupported attacks on the prior Administration? Foaming at the mouth is entirely optional, of course. :laugh:
hehe, wow. Don't forget to breath.
So Musharraf wasn't a dictator? What about the Saudi's?
Let me know when Obama is seen holding hands with Zelaya.
PJABBER
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
- 0
- 0
Good point. The Honduran Constitution requires a removal but does not specify how to do so. Their Supreme Court and other branches of government had to come up with a way to neutralize the guy and they chose an old standby - exile. I guess they could have a been a bit more unkind and just put him up against a wall and shot him, also very traditional, if a bit messy.
If we were to remove a President for good cause (not just lying under oath about whether he just had to have sexual relations/blow jobs with a White House intern) and he/she refused to abide by the decision of the Congress and the Supreme Court, we also do not have a specific remedy so far as I know. The military is sworn to protect the Constitution, so, like in Honduras, I guess it would be up to them to get the guy on a plane to somewhere, or find an acceptable alternative.
Guys, now lets soberly discuss what actions we will have to take if Obama turns out to be a lesbian Nazi eskimo tentacle monster from the Moon. I'm not saying he is, but we should definitely talk about what must be done if he turns out to be.
You are a nutjob yourself, and more a part of the problem than a part of the solution, when you continue to focus on the very small minority instead of the group at large
Take the health care debate, you are implying the only two opinions someone can possibly have is either full government run health-care or else assassination :roll:
I will tell you right now, I guarantee that no one who voted in that facebook poll will ever carry through with what they voted on, regardless of any involvement of any authority. Your basis for argument is wrong.
PJABBER
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
- 0
- 0
This has been covered in any number of science fiction novels over the years. Please refer to them for the myriad of options available.
One possibility that has not been adequately covered, however, is what are we going to do if zombies actually come to rule the Earth. I am looking forward to seeing this brought to the big screen as a means of stimulating on point discussions here -
Obamaland?
I am personally very well prepared for the eventuality. Are you?
:laugh:
"Time to nut up, or shut up."
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Originally posted by: Harvey
Are you sure you're not Glenn Beck?
No, I am definitely not Glen Beck, though I wish I made as much money as he does!
You always seem to jump in with a Bush bashing comment, but Bush did not support dictatorship in his terms in office, while Obama manifestly has.
I didn't "jump in with a Bush bashing comment," at least yet, but I'll be glad to oblige if you give me reason to post one.
You seem to be missing a lot of facts about who Zelaya is and what happened.
Which dictator and which military coup do you want to discuss? Zelaya was elected to office and thrown out by a military coup. What evidence do you have to support your claim that he "violated the tenets of their Constitution in an attempt to secure an extension of the term in office?" AFIK, whether Zelaya's attempt to extend his term of office was within Honduran law is still a matter of contention, making it a matter for Honduran courts. I have not heard anything that would suggest Zelaya intended to remain in office through the use of military force or any other illegal means.
Obama's position is that the coup ousting Zalaya was illegal.
Obama hasn't said much more about supporting Zalaya's bid to extend his presidency or what the end result should be. All you're spewing is more of your same dishonest, fear mongering disinformation.
My attacks on your thankfully EX-Traitor In Chief and his criminal cabal of traitors, murderers, torturers, war criminals, war profiteers and general incompetents are not ceaseless. I hadn't said anything about them in THIS thread until YOU raised the issue. :roll:
Now that you have, I'll remind you that neither are they unsupported. I can always post one or more of what you right wingnuts refer to as my "macros," including names and dates of specific acts and quotes, along with statutory citations and references to credible authorities to establish the crimes of which I accuse them.
I'll do that if you wish, or you can STFU about it because you know you're lying through your teeth, and you know you can't disprove anything I've said in those posts about your Bushwhacko criminals.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
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Your post is about 100% fail.
As I didn't even metion health care it's quite a leap to state that not only did I imply something, but that I implied something as specific as an all or nothing choice in the health care debate. I don't know if you're projecting or hallucinating.
And it's nice that you "guarantee" that no one in the facebook poll will try to assassinate the president. That must have cost you a lot. What do I get if one of them does try it?
Your argument is that we should ignore the fringe minority who are dangerous enough to actually try something so extreme, when the only ones who would try something so extreme are in that fringe minority. That's idiotic.
A 400% increase in death threats you don't ignore. You also don't ignore the mainstream republican politicians, including Steele, who flatout refuse to deny that Obama wanted "death panels" in the bill, that refuse to simply state that Obama was born in Hawaii, that encourage the fringe by pushing the fear of indoctrination when the president wants to address the nation's students. You don't ignore the Becks and Limbaughs and Bachmanns who whip people into a frenzy about youth reeducation and concentration camps and communism.
What you are doing is saying, hey, it's ok when all those people do and say all those things because the majority of listeners are normal people who aren't going to try to kill anyone. But of course when some fringe guy gets pushed over the edge in this climate fostered by those very people, they get to disavow all responsibility. Bullshit. They are creating and maintaining a climate of fear, prejudice and blatant lies.
That is what Friedman is talking about. It's the responsibility of voices on the right to expel and denounce extremism. But they aren't. They're winking at it.
We raise a zombie army and counter-attack. Also, nuke the moon, before the rest of his dark legion can descend upon the earth.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
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TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
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You know what's funny? We had very similar insanity going on from the extremists from the opposite side when Bush won both elections. All the hyperbole and rhetoric about fraud, urging uprisings and revolutions, fearmongering about October surprises and Bush trying to supercede the Constitution in tricky ways to remain president forever. Yet some of the same lefties in here rarely blinked an eye when that same sort of thing came from the extremists their camp. All of the sudden they immediately recognize the crazy when it comes from the other side though.
The partisan viewpoints of who and what is considered insane never ceases to amaze me.
The partisan viewpoints of who and what is considered insane never ceases to amaze me.
PJABBER
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
- 0
- 0
Hmm, the Wiki entry on Zelaya that you posted has been changed to describe the exiling as a "coup." Saying it was doesn't make it so. Mr. Zelaya?s removal, far from being illegal, was consistent with Articles 239 and 272 of his country?s Constitution.
Have you read this?
The Path Forward for Honduras - Zelaya?s removal from office was a triumph for the rule of law.
How about this?
The Honduras Mess - A dangerous standoff that the U.S. helped to create.
My question is - why is the Obama Administration standing with the likes of Ortega and Chavez?
I can guarantee that you have no way you can stand behind such a guarantee. It takes exactly ONE nutcase to prove you wrong.
- Where were you when we needed you to "guarantee" Eric Rudolph wouldn't murder doctors and bomb women's health clinics and nightclubs or set off bombs at the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta?
- Where were you when we needed you to "guarantee" Timothy McVeigh and his whacko buddies wouldn't blow up the Murrah Federal Building Oklahoma City?
- Where were you when we needed you to "guarantee" Scott Roeder wouldn't kill Dr. George Tiller in Witchita, Kansas?
- Where were you when we needed you to "guarantee" James von Brunn wouldn't kill a guard at the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C.?
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