Color correction in Vista 64 SP2

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Squidmaster

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Jul 26, 2004
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I have a monitor that benefits from a color profile I have. Unfortunately, loading it into the "color correction" element of Vista does absolutely nothing. I have it using my profile in "devices" and merged those results with the default, which seems to be how it is done, yet nothing changed whatsoever. Am I missing something? How do I make this work?

Thanks for your time!
 
nitromullet

nitromullet

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Jan 7, 2004
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I am not sure if Vista has color control at the OS level that lets you apply a color profile globally. Win 7 does; Win XP does not, I'm sure of this. There are some applications that are color profile aware though, most of these are going to be graphics/design/photo apps like Photoshop. Firefox 3 is also color profile aware, but I don't think it is enabled by default. I'm pretty sure that most games are not color profile aware.

Sorry, I don't have a whole lot of concrete info, but this sounds like what your problem is.

This might help: http://www.artstorm.net/journa...ut-dell-2408/#concepts
 
P

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: nitromullet
I am not sure if Vista has color control at the OS level that lets you apply a color profile globally. Win 7 does; Win XP does not, I'm sure of this. There are some applications that are color profile aware though, most of these are going to be graphics/design/photo apps like Photoshop. Firefox 3 is also color profile aware, but I don't think it is enabled by default. I'm pretty sure that most games are not color profile aware.

Sorry, I don't have a whole lot of concrete info, but this sounds like what your problem is.

This might help: http://www.artstorm.net/journa...ut-dell-2408/#concepts
Click to expand...

This is correct. Let me clarify that windows XP has a color control applet that can be installed, windows vista has it natively and so does 7. This DOES NOT change the colors to every application or even the windows environment. It simply makes the profile AVAILABLE to applications that look for it. In windows 7 and vista, for example, the "preview" option when you click on any image to view it is a color managed application and will use the profile. Photoshop will also go looking for your profile here.

Firefox needs to be "hand pointed" to the file by going into about:config. The most recent version has color management turned on by default but only for tagged images. I prefer to color manage ALL images because many have their tags removed by accident or to save space. This can be done as well.

If you have any questions about color management let me know. I am fairly big into this stuff.
 
S

Squidmaster

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Jul 26, 2004
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Fantastic. Shouldn't the Vista profile adjust desktop gamma? I was under the impression I was going to be able to leave xcalib behind with this upgrade.

I changed my FF 3.5 about:config from 2 to 1 for the setting that handles correction, but how do I confirm that it knows where to find the file? Right now everything looks identical in FF and IE8.

One more thing - I feel confident I loaded the profile properly in Windows because xcalib with no paramaters will adjust the gamma as it should, which it can't do without the default profile being set properly. One thing I am NOT certain about is whether xcalib will adjust the gamma if it has already been adjusted using the same profile. For example, does xcalib work by raising/lowering by X amount, or does it set the number at something specific in the profile? In the latter case I would assume it would not do a double adjustment. Hope that makes sense.
 
P

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Squidmaster
Fantastic. Shouldn't the Vista profile adjust desktop gamma? I was under the impression I was going to be able to leave xcalib behind with this upgrade.

I changed my FF 3.5 about:config from 2 to 1 for the setting that handles correction, but how do I confirm that it knows where to find the file? Right now everything looks identical in FF and IE8.

One more thing - I feel confident I loaded the profile properly in Windows because xcalib with no paramaters will adjust the gamma as it should, which it can't do without the default profile being set properly. One thing I am NOT certain about is whether xcalib will adjust the gamma if it has already been adjusted using the same profile. For example, does xcalib work by raising/lowering by X amount, or does it set the number at something specific in the profile? In the latter case I would assume it would not do a double adjustment. Hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...

The important thing to keep in mind here is gamma correct is different from the color gamut profile. The color profile you load into windows tells applications how to map from color to color. The gamma correction adjusts the gamma curves typically in the video card to the users preference. These are two separate processes.

FF 3.5 needs to be told where the color profile is. If you go into about:config there is a section called GFX.color.management.display.profile where you should enter the path and filename of the .icc or .icm file. Once you restart the program it should then be recognized in firefox. If you notice no difference then your monitor may be very close to sRGB.

If xcalib adjusts the gamma it will completely remodify it. A program for gamma correction does not go in and re-adjust from the current position. It loads an entirely new set of gamma curves. Windows 7 has a calibration program built in but I do not use it. I can not say for sure that if you used that whether or not windows would automatically adjust the gamma curves each time.

If you nVidia card has a place to load a gamma curve profile it can handle loading it each time, my work computer has this but its a quaddro card. Otherwise your stuck still using xcalib if you want gamma curve calibration.
 
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Squidmaster

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Jul 26, 2004
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Alrighty. It seems like the info out there for Vista 64 color profiles is varied and sketchy at best. I don't know what I should be expecting. At least xcalib still works, and I will check out about:config right now. Do you happen to know where a profile gets saved in Vista when it is loaded?
 
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Squidmaster

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Jul 26, 2004
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I just went in to set this and it was already set! Does IE 8 have color correction now as well or is something borked? On my XP system I could always see a difference. It doesn't look right at present.

Does the "rendering_intent" one have anything to do with this in about:config?
 
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Squidmaster

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Jul 26, 2004
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I did that. Firefox isn't picking it up. xcalib does and Photoshop does, but not Firefox. Should I get an addon or is there some other problem? Mine is set just like yours.
 
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Squidmaster

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This is where I get confused. Doesn't Photoshop just use the monitor gamma to display colors properly? If I change the settings for which you took a screenshot, that *saves* files with that gamut, right? Aren't those two different things?
 
P

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Squidmaster
This is where I get confused. Doesn't Photoshop just use the monitor gamma to display colors properly? If I change the settings for which you took a screenshot, that *saves* files with that gamut, right? Aren't those two different things?
Click to expand...

You don't change the setting, you simply make sure it recognizes a monitor color calibration file. Using the pulldown menu and looking at what it calls the "monitor RGB" verifies this. You leave this alone though.


Again, recognize that these are two different things. The gamma is loaded into the video card drivers by xcalib or other program in your setup. This affects ALL programs, including windows itself.

It is then up to the program itself whether to recognize the color profile. This has no gamma information in it. It simply describes how RGB values map to different colors. This allows a program to know exactly what color you will see on your monitor when it wants to output a specific one.

So, verify that the file under monitor RGB has the same name as the one you are directing firefox to. Close out of firefox, and for good measure, restart the computer. The open an image into firefox and photoshop and maybe even the "preview" image viewer in vista and windows 7 and compare. They should all look fairly similar with minor differences depending on the rendering intent.
 
S

Squidmaster

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Jul 26, 2004
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Ah! I should really find something I can read about color correction and Photoshop, but that did the trick and it has the right profile under monitor as you say.

So this helps determine that at the least, Firefox is screwing it up. The question remains though what, if anything, Vista does with the profile for its own purposes beyond providing it to other programs as XP always did. I was under the impression that it actually used the info in this iteration but maybe that is Windows 7. I'm unclear on that.
 
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PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Squidmaster
Ah! I should really find something I can read about color correction and Photoshop, but that did the trick and it has the right profile under monitor as you say.

So this helps determine that at the least, Firefox is screwing it up. The question remains though what, if anything, Vista does with the profile for its own purposes beyond providing it to other programs as XP always did. I was under the impression that it actually used the info in this iteration but maybe that is Windows 7. I'm unclear on that.
Click to expand...

Nope Win7 is still not color managed. Can you post a picture of the same image open in IE8, Firefox, Photoshop and the windows image "preview" application?
 
P

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Squidmaster
Here you go. As is the case with most LCDs, my monitor oversaturates. The PS version compensates but the others don't.
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What monitor do you have. That photoshop picture actually looks overcompensated which makes me wonder if perhaps the problem is there. On my calibrated monitor the image looks more similar to your second and third images.

Like I said before, if you monitor models RGB, the difference due to color profiles won't be huge.

Where are you getting your color profile file from? The manufacturer or is a custom calibration?

Also, can you also compare the result you see in windows photo viewer? Make sure that in your color management page the Device profile is selected as the default for the monitor and as the Default profile for the "windows color system default". Then have "WCS profile for ICC viewing conditions" selected in Viewing conditions profile. I believe you'll have to restart once this is done before the changes take place. Do what you did before and place the same image in windows photo viewer side by side with photoshop, IE and firefox.
 
S

Squidmaster

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Jul 26, 2004
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Keep in mind you might be seeing it adjusted twice depending on where you view the image. For instance, if I view this image in IE or (right now) Firefox, the right 2 images are oversaturated and the left looks right. If I view in the Windows viewer, the left looks overcompensated as you say, and the right two look right, but only because they have been adjusted twice. In any case, that isn't really the issue. As you can see, both IE and Firefox are displaying the same way, which is incorrect.

My settings are as you say with one exception. Instead of "WCS profile for ICC viewing conditions", mine is using the "System default (WCS profile for sRGB viewing conditions)." What is the difference between these two, and might this fix my problem if I change it?
 
P

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Squidmaster
Keep in mind you might be seeing it adjusted twice depending on where you view the image. For instance, if I view this image in IE or (right now) Firefox, the right 2 images are oversaturated and the left looks right. If I view in the Windows viewer, the left looks overcompensated as you say, and the right two look right, but only because they have been adjusted twice. In any case, that isn't really the issue. As you can see, both IE and Firefox are displaying the same way, which is incorrect.

My settings are as you say with one exception. Instead of "WCS profile for ICC viewing conditions", mine is using the "System default (WCS profile for sRGB viewing conditions)." What is the difference between these two, and might this fix my problem if I change it?
Click to expand...

sRGB assumes that your monitor roughly estimates the sRGB color gamut. ICC should make the icc profile available to applications. It should be changed.

I should not be seeing this image adjusted twice. When you save it you save it with the sRGB profile attached. My system then goes and corrects it just as yours did.

Anyway, adjust that setting and please line up photoshop, windows image viewer, firefox and IE and take a screen shot. Please restart after adjusting that setting though.
 
S

Squidmaster

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Jul 26, 2004
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Here is a new one, created after changing the advanced settings as discussed.

Here is an example of what I was talking about with the profile applying twice. It is simply because the print screen function uses different rules and likely applies no profile at all. You can see the original PS mockup in this image on the top, and the distortion on the bottom, which is the same image you're seeing from my first link. It's just applied twice.

It occurs to me that xcalib could be causing this secondary issue, which is ok.
 
P

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Squidmaster
Here is a new one, created after changing the advanced settings as discussed.

Here is an example of what I was talking about with the profile applying twice. It is simply because the print screen function uses different rules and likely applies no profile at all. You can see the original PS mockup in this image on the top, and the distortion on the bottom, which is the same image you're seeing from my first link. It's just applied twice.
Click to expand...

Do you have a lot of add-on for firefox installed. Can you try to do a clean install of firefox removing any extra plugins? I have seen added plugins affect image viewing in firefox before.

Also, please try the Windows image viewer to see if that matched photoshop now. It should.
 
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Squidmaster

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Jul 26, 2004
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Is it the change in the default setting from RBG to icc that makes image viewer correct the colors, because yes, that part worked. I really tried to find information on the difference between these two settings beyond what you discussed but I couldn't. I suppose it worked, but I still feel like I am in the dark on that one. Intuitively it seems like having windows use its own system for icc settings would override having a profile for the monitor. The default suggests that it will only use windows settings for RGB viewing in situations where there is no profile.

My installation of Firefox has a number of addons for web design and the like. Before this system I used Firefox 3 I believe, unless it did an update for me to 3.5 that I missed, and I had a plugin to handle color management that worked like a dream. I just did a FEBE backup and will give reinstalling a shot in a bit.
 
P

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
13,837
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Originally posted by: Squidmaster
Is it the change in the default setting from RBG to icc that makes image viewer correct the colors, because yes, that part worked. I really tried to find information on the difference between these two settings beyond what you discussed but I couldn't. I suppose it worked, but I still feel like I am in the dark on that one. Intuitively it seems like having windows use its own system for icc settings would override having a profile for the monitor. The default suggests that it will only use windows settings for RGB viewing in situations where there is no profile.

My installation of Firefox has a number of addons for web design and the like. Before this system I used Firefox 3 I believe, unless it did an update for me to 3.5 that I missed, and I had a plugin to handle color management that worked like a dream. I just did a FEBE backup and will give reinstalling a shot in a bit.
Click to expand...

Yes, the changing of that setting is what "fixes" the image viewer. Selecting that option lets the image viewer program "find" the default profile you selected in the color management section of the control panel. It's not a different profile.

The plugin for firefox 3 was simply an easier way to enable and disable color management and locate the file without having to go into about:config. Now that color management is enabled by default I guess the author gave up on that plugin. Please do try to do a clean install of firefox. We've limited the problem down to simply the application now which is a good step lol.
 
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Squidmaster

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Jul 26, 2004
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Agreed. I need about a day to do this it turns out, due to appointments and visits and such. By Friday I should have more info, if not tomorrow night latish.
 
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Squidmaster

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Jul 26, 2004
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Ok, I completely uninstalled Firefox, erased the entire folder, and reinstalled it again. After restoring the color management settings and double checking the location of the icc profile and all that, the problem remains the same as before. I am not going to show a screenshot this time as it would be the same as the others.

As of this moment the only thing I have restored is my bookmarks, so there should be no addon "taint". :)
 
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