College grads taking low-wage jobs displace less educated

[chucky2]

Heh. That's a helluva way to increase already diminished social mobility, huh?

Maybe we should just go back to the 1820 model, where only the wealthy went to college? That way, their kids won't have to compete with upstart commoners, ya know?

If you think their kids are really competing with the upstart commoners now you're delusional.

 

[Jhhnn]

If you think their kids are really competing with the upstart commoners now you're delusional.

They do to a certain degree wrt employment. Otherwise, we'd have the same upper class incompetence & arrogance as described in the book, "Longitude".

Not all rich kids get to be Neil Bush, you know, basically selling his name to headline Silverado Savings in return for a nice sinecure. He'd still be doing the backstroke in that giant gravy bowl if it hadn't been a scam...

 

[Spungo]

Your plan is to de-educate American society? That sounds like a really great idea, especially in a world where international competition is only increasing.

We were the world's largest creditor back when everyone was retarded.
Now we're "educated" and the world's largest debtor. We have trade deficits with every country we trade with. Real wages have been falling since the 1970's. Education has clearly not made our society any better.

I would argue that it's immoral to strap 150k of debt to a kid. How many teens actually have their shit together and know what they want to do? When you're 18, getting six figures in debt to learn poetry might seem like a good idea.

 

[fskimospy]

We were the world's largest creditor back when everyone was retarded.
Now we're "educated" and the world's largest debtor. We have trade deficits with every country we trade with. Real wages have been falling since the 1970's. Education has clearly not made our society any better.

I would argue that it's immoral to strap 150k of debt to a kid. How many teens actually have their shit together and know what they want to do? When you're 18, getting six figures in debt to learn poetry might seem like a good idea.

Average student loan debt is right about $30k.

As for the rest of your post, your logic is really bad. Correlation does not mean causation. One of the principal tests for a hypothesis is a plausible causal mechanism. Can you provide one here?

 

[chucky2]

They do to a certain degree wrt employment. Otherwise, we'd have the same upper class incompetence & arrogance as described in the book, "Longitude".

Not all rich kids get to be Neil Bush, you know, basically selling his name to headline Silverado Savings in return for a nice sinecure. He'd still be doing the backstroke in that giant gravy bowl if it hadn't been a scam...

No, they just get better learning environments in grade school, high school, then get no price is too great options for college, and then, when graduating a college they'd never have been able to get into if they came from a working slob background, get to network for a job through their parents.

You have to be especially dim/loser as a rich kid to not be earning upper 5 figures. Then tack on no student debt, nice car, backstop of parents with money, etc...and that's the worst case. Not too shabby for someone majoring in dance appreciation...

 

[Jhhnn]

No, they just get better learning environments in grade school, high school, then get no price is too great options for college, and then, when graduating a college they'd never have been able to get into if they came from a working slob background, get to network for a job through their parents.

You have to be especially dim/loser as a rich kid to not be earning upper 5 figures. Then tack on no student debt, nice car, backstop of parents with money, etc...and that's the worst case. Not too shabby for someone majoring in dance appreciation...

While generally true, that doesn't cover people who come from humble origins, attain great success after graduating from public universities.

Yeh, they're taking some rich kid's job, for sure.

 

[chucky2]

While generally true, that doesn't cover people who come from humble origins, attain great success after graduating from public universities.

Yeh, they're taking some rich kid's job, for sure.

Sure, but numbers-wise how many jobs is that really? If there are 1000 jobs out there, how many are actually attained by creditials and interview purely, instead of my dad knows your dad let me put him and your boss on my resume list of references. By the way, I graduated from a top uni with a 2.8 GPA, bow before me and pay no attention to that blue collar kid over there who worked all through his crappy high school years, college years, summers, etc. while I went touring in that crappy hand me down BMW my dad gave me.

I just don't see a negative to being rich which equals being networked where it counts...

 

[LegendKiller]

I do luv how the usual suspects lean on the false "useless degree" paradigm. It's a nifty bit of self-aggrandizement, if nothing else.

If more people got what they consider to be "useful" degrees, then it just means that more people with those degrees would be working outside their chosen fields for less than their potential in their field, while less capable people would be pushed even lower.

Righties seem to think that there are more jobs than workers, when that's not true except in very, very specialized & rare endeavors. They also seem to think that the constant (often involuntary) churn in employment has little effect when that's not true, either. Or that the reason your company went bust is because the workers weren't good enough, or something.

Successful young families depend on steady employment in no small way, because they live on the monthly payment plan, having low assets & high overhead. The number of times they'll suffer setbacks from being downsized, rightsized, laid off, relocated and offshored is no small matter, particularly when forced into occupations below their academic achievement.

I have an undergrad in psychology. It is worthless.

 

[LegendKiller]

You should look up the relationship between student loan availability and tuition increases. You realize a lot of empirical research has been done on it and they find no statistically significant relationship, right?

I tend to think that there is still one in there somewhere, but it is clearly not the dominant trendsetter.

Availability of student loans didn't lead to tuition increases, the lack of funding from states, oversight for that funding, and general lack of thriftiness has caused tuition to go up and that increase to be born by loans. While loans do feed into it, I believe the start of it was states cutting funding. Naturally private schools had to keep up.

Add into that private school nuttery and you get the situation we are in now.


I do not think there are delinquency statistics by major.

 

[norseamd]

how much is a multidisciplinary degree worth?

 

[Jhhnn]

I have an undergrad in psychology. It is worthless.

It apparently got you into grad school, didn't it?

 

[LegendKiller]

It apparently got you into grad school, didn't it?

I got into grad school despite it, not because of it. Most of that was because I worked in IT while getting my shitty degree, that got me into it.

 

[Jhhnn]

I got into grad school despite it, not because of it. Most of that was because I worked in IT while getting my shitty degree, that got me into it.

So, uhh, they would have let you into graduate school w/o an undergraduate degree? Really?

It's been widely known for at least 40 years that some degrees have relatively low commercial value unless followed by grad school. Psychology is one of them. You knew that before you even came close to graduation, I suspect.

 

[Ronstang]

But can we get a liberal to admit that the oversupply of useless college grads is a liberal created problem?? Stop offering stupid useless degrees and pushing everyone to go to college...but that won't happen, a lot of liberals need those jobs teaching those useless degrees!!!

 

[LegendKiller]

So, uhh, they would have let you into graduate school w/o an undergraduate degree? Really?

It's been widely known for at least 40 years that some degrees have relatively low commercial value unless followed by grad school. Psychology is one of them. You knew that before you even came close to graduation, I suspect.

Again, I got in *despite* my *psychology* degree. What don't you comprehend there? Had I not had IT work I wouldn't have gotten into business school.

But even a masters in psychology from a decent school won't get you too far. You either need to be at least a phd psychologist if not a psychiatrist for it to be worthwhile.

That being said, the economic viability of my psych degree was horrible when I was paying $12k/yr, now my school is $22k/yr. Compared to other degrees that have a far better economic viability psychology is a horrible investment. If you don't go to grad school you are looking at $88k in loans (assuming 4 years, like I did, but most do it in 5, so $110k) with a $35k salary, if that. Not great. Certainly not as good as being able to go into economics/finance/business/math/engineering and make more than that.

 

[norseamd]

But can we get a liberal to admit that the oversupply of useless college grads is a liberal created problem?? Stop offering stupid useless degrees and pushing everyone to go to college...but that won't happen, a lot of liberals need those jobs teaching those useless degrees!!!

that is a employer and private for profit education problem not a liberal problem. if employers stopped demanding token degrees and would actually start looking more at the actual skills of employees then this would not be a problem. this is a business and republican and corruption issue. because of the rise of big business and corruption democrats are even more aligning with big money interests

 

[LegendKiller]

But can we get a liberal to admit that the oversupply of useless college grads is a liberal created problem?? Stop offering stupid useless degrees and pushing everyone to go to college...but that won't happen, a lot of liberals need those jobs teaching those useless degrees!!!

This is not a liberal or a conservative created problem. Only a knuckle dragging mouth breather would believe that.

 

[norseamd]

This is not a liberal or a conservative created problem. Only a knuckle dragging mouth breather would believe that.

older republican values and centrist republicans sure. but with the need to show off more of more extremist views among the far righters and tea partyers there is talk of dissolving all public education. what a way to increase the power of the rich upper class

 

[Jhhnn]

Again, I got in *despite* my *psychology* degree. What don't you comprehend there? Had I not had IT work I wouldn't have gotten into business school.

You didn't answer the question about getting into grad school w/o some sort of undergraduate degree. We both know it doesn't happen.

I now realize that IT experience put you over the hump & into business school, but w/o an undergraduate degree it wouldn't have mattered. Obviously, an undergraduate degree in business or related field would have made it easier.

Like I said, your psych degree got you into grad school, along with some other stuff.

 

[norseamd]

guys?

how much is a multidisciplinary degree worth?

 

[Ancalagon44]

Actually its a race to the top. In the future all burger flippers will have higher education and a College Degree.

So employees now get to hire a much higher caliber of employee with 4 year degrees VS the highschool dropout.

In the future. All jobs will have a College educated workforce.

Wanted: Junior Burger flipper.

Minimum qualification: MBA or similar. CFA considered in exceptional cases.

Must have 4 years of experience as a senior burger flipper in a large burger chain, including experience with Burger Flipper 2014.

Hourly wage: $5

 

[Pulsar]

Funny thing you mention that, I was on the debate team in high school, haha.

You should take your own advice, btw, as your conclusion is not supported by your arguments: your idea was to eliminate all student loans, not only those in 'worthless fields'. The elimination of student loans would decrease the supply of labor across all fields, not just those 'worthless' ones. As previously mentioned, banks do not give high value unsecured loans to 18 year olds very often, no matter what they might be going to school for.

Where did I suggest removing all student loans? I said to get rid of the ones in fields where the jobs were un-needed. Please don't words in my mouth.

 

[Pulsar]

guys?

A multi-undergrad degree? In two related fields, like math and CS? Not worth much more than the guy who got the CS degree, assuming they had similar grade performance.

A multi-graduate degree? Worth quite a bit to the right companies.

 

[momeNt]

Deregulate education. Let American ingenuity shine and the problem will go away on its own!

Liberals and conservatives make their decisions based on fear of the unknown. This is why when they argue with anarchists they bring out the boogie-men because their decision-making is always based on fear. They also seek to control all of the variables, hence the extreme need for authority.

 

[fskimospy]

Where did I suggest removing all student loans? I said to get rid of the ones in fields where the jobs were un-needed. Please don't words in my mouth.

What fields are those, how will you identify them, and what makes you think the government will be agile enough to allocate loans as needed?