Collapse of Science in Government

[[DHT]Osiris]

Government and Science have traditionally had a yin-yang partnership, complimenting each other both negatively and positively, however usually for the better. Apparently, that's not quite good enough for the present administration, and thus we've got the New Order being implemented.

https://arstechnica.com/video/2017/...s-removing-scientific-data-from-the-internet/
https://arstechnica.com/science/201...hange-information-as-part-of-website-updates/
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/signpost/cc.html
tl;dr: EPA.gov now has a placeholder where previously was information regarding climate change, stating that the site is being updated to reflect 'the EPA's priorities under the leadership of President Trump and Administrator Pruitt'. The removal of this information from the public eye is the most damning aspect, in my opinion, because it removes (from one angle) the capacity of the citizenry to make an informed decision.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/05/trump-epa-budget-noaa-climate-change/527814/
33% reduction of the EPA's budget. Scott Pruitt appointed to head the agency (he's sued the EPA 14 times, and launched an initiative to "challenge" climate change data.)

What other fun examples of scientific 're-education' can we find?

 

[vi edit]

Democracy dies in darkness. We can add diplomacy and scientific progress to that list.

 

[Jhhnn]

Just remember, kiddies-

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.

 

[alien42]

https://twitter.com/elleabella1112/status/880870684485984256

 

[UglyCasanova]

This is scary stuff and has been brewing for years. It's amazing the level of distrust that's out there from the general public over science, to the point many see it as a giant conspiracy to extract money from everyone and the scientists are just a frickin mafia.

It'd be funny except people actually do believe that. Most arguing this (even the politicians) don't even understand what science is.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is scary stuff and has been brewing for years. It's amazing the level of distrust that's out there from the general public over science, to the point many see it as a giant conspiracy to extract money from everyone and the scientists are just a frickin mafia.

It'd be funny except people actually do believe that. Most arguing this (even the politicians) don't even understand what science is.

Maybe out there on the right fringe.

The whole "controversy" is about enhancing energy sector profit. Conservation inhibits that. It's also about people who don't want to hear about it today any more than they did from Jimmy Carter.

 

[alien42]

This is scary stuff and has been brewing for years. It's amazing the level of distrust that's out there from the general public over science, to the point many see it as a giant conspiracy to extract money from everyone and the scientists are just a frickin mafia.

It'd be funny except people actually do believe that. Most arguing this (even the politicians) don't even understand what science is.

and the vast majority of the idiots you are talking about are the very reason Trump is currently President.

Democrats tend to embrace science while Republicans prefer religion.

 

[jackstar7]

It's always the conservatives droning on about how liberals just want to re-educate people to think right.

Well, we're seeing de-education in action, so it sounds like we'll need those liberals to fix this shit. Let's hope math makes it out of this, though based on the "math" in the healthcare bill and tax bill, I'm not holding out all that much hope for it.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Maybe out there on the right fringe.

The whole "controversy" is about enhancing energy sector profit. Conservation inhibits that. It's also about people who don't want to hear about it today any more than they did from Jimmy Carter.

It's about enhancing profits for the powers that be, but over time they've molded the understanding of a large slice of the general public to believe global warming is a hoax. This is exacerbated by the extremely partisan nature of the country on damned near everything at the moment, a fault shared by both sides equally. Green energy and jobs are seen as having to do with the left so you'll find people on the right cheering when they hear a clean energy company goes out of business or a new clean tech fails or the like, something that under normal circumstances should be viewed as non-partisan and a bad thing. You'll find them proud of how much they pollute and saying the more CO2 the better because it's plant food.

I wish I were exaggerating this but there really is a far too large slice of America that thinks this way. The fact that it's got to this point is a travesty, enormously embarrassing for the country, and harmful to the entire world.

 

[jackstar7]

It's about enhancing profits for the powers that be, but over time they've molded the understanding of a large slice of the general public to believe global warming is a hoax. This is exacerbated by the extremely partisan nature of the country on damned near everything at the moment, a fault shared by both sides equally. Green energy and jobs are seen as having to do with the left so you'll find people on the right cheering when they hear a clean energy company goes out of business or a new clean tech fails or the like, something that under normal circumstances should be viewed as non-partisan and a bad thing. You'll find them proud of how much they pollute and saying the more CO2 the better because it's plant food.

I wish I were exaggerating this but there really is a far too large slice of America that thinks this way. The fact that it's got to this point is a travesty, enormously embarrassing for the country, and harmful to the entire world.

They don't hide it. They're the "Fuck Your Prius" crowd and they're as short-sighted as any group of people could be. Sadly they're also least likely to use birth control and abortion... hence Idiocracy.

 

[UglyCasanova]

They don't hide it. They're the "Fuck Your Prius" crowd and they're as short-sighted as any group of people could be. Sadly they're also least likely to use birth control and abortion... hence Idiocracy.

It seems most of your posts are condescending of the right. There were plenty of reasons Trump won over Hillary, but that kind of attitude played no small part. The lack of respect and constant snubbing drove them away from even attempting to meet in the middle on anything and the feeling of elitism coming from the left was a very real thing. They felt slighted and dismissed by Democrats and the powers that be which put more wind in Trump's sail than he deserved.

Now that he's elected the right is acting the same way so I'm sure the pendulum will start swinging back, but it's just something worth noting.

 

[jackstar7]

It seems most of your posts are condescending of the right. There were plenty of reasons Trump won over Hillary, but that kind of attitude played no small part. The lack of respect and constant snubbing drove them away from even attempting to meet in the middle on anything and the feeling of elitism coming from the left was a very real thing. They felt slighted and dismissed by Democrats and the powers that be which put more wind in Trump's sail than he deserved.

Now that he's elected the right is acting the same way so I'm sure the pendulum will start swinging back, but it's just something worth noting.

What respect have they earned? Tell me that.

I grew up knowing it is earned, not given.

 

[HTFOff]

They don't hide it. They're the "Fuck Your Prius" crowd

I lean just right of Hammurabi, and I would drive the fuck out of a prius thank you very much.

 

[ivwshane]

It seems most of your posts are condescending of the right. There were plenty of reasons Trump won over Hillary, but that kind of attitude played no small part. The lack of respect and constant snubbing drove them away from even attempting to meet in the middle on anything and the feeling of elitism coming from the left was a very real thing. They felt slighted and dismissed by Democrats and the powers that be which put more wind in Trump's sail than he deserved.

Now that he's elected the right is acting the same way so I'm sure the pendulum will start swinging back, but it's just something worth noting.

Lol! The right gains power because liberals are mean, meme strikes again!

Righties are the biggest bunch of pussies I've ever seen.


#anothersafespacebitch

 

[nickqt]

Lol! The right gains power because liberals are mean, meme strikes again!

Righties are the biggest bunch of pussies I've ever seen.


#anothersafespacebitch

Biggest victims on the planet, and they never stop reminding you that the reason their lives are failures is because of libruuls who laugh at their inane bullshit.

Then they go and vote for imbeciles and monsters, and spit in delight that they've pissed off a big mean libruul.

Rinse, repeat.

 

[jackstar7]

I lean just right of Hammurabi, and I would drive the fuck out of a prius thank you very much.

Awesome, brah. Maybe check context as UC was describing those that flaunt their climate science denial, and those sort of folks tend to enjoy a disgusting diesel stack on their truck to a gas-sipping hybrid, or electric car.

Meanwhile, the climate rates a distant second to me over a simpler reason for holding no respect for those d-bags: they are causing pollution and poisoning everyone, including children. Child asthma alone is absurd these days.

 

[HTFOff]

Awesome, brah. Maybe check context as UC was describing those that flaunt their climate science denial, and those sort of folks tend to enjoy a disgusting diesel stack on their truck to a gas-sipping hybrid, or electric car.

Meanwhile, the climate rates a distant second to me over a simpler reason for holding no respect for those d-bags: they are causing pollution and poisoning everyone, including children. Child asthma alone is absurd these days.

This is my formal apology for taking your generalisations out of context.

 

[agent00f]

It seems most of your posts are condescending of the right. There were plenty of reasons Trump won over Hillary, but that kind of attitude played no small part. The lack of respect and constant snubbing drove them away from even attempting to meet in the middle on anything and the feeling of elitism coming from the left was a very real thing. They felt slighted and dismissed by Democrats and the powers that be which put more wind in Trump's sail than he deserved.

Now that he's elected the right is acting the same way so I'm sure the pendulum will start swinging back, but it's just something worth noting.

I lean just right of Hammurabi, and I would drive the fuck out of a prius thank you very much.

The kind of people to vote for Hitler because some jew was mean to them. Their assertion, not mine.

 

[trenchfoot]

I guess it will be so much more simple and there would be so much less fear of the unknown if we were to go back to the days of yore when the earth was flat and religion, especially those particular brands the royalty used to placate and domesticate the peasants with, was at it's apex of control over the masses.

How convenient it was for the royals to wield the hammer of an ultimate higher power as they saw fit.

So I guess we're headed back that way if some folks get to dictate terms because the infamously alleged rumor that "the Constitution is just a goddam piece of paper" is for some, just that.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Operation reset to 1950 - it's a go.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Operation reset to 1950 - it's a go.

Thanks for setting me straight on this. I've been under the life long impression that it was operation incest at work. You know what they say; incest is best put your sister to the test.

 

[Stokely]

Man, if there's a more bs argument than "left wing snobbery made people vote for Trump" I don't want to hear it.

If perceived snobbery made you vote a certain direction, you're an incredibly weak-minded ignorant fool to begin with, and you were just looking for any excuse to vote that way anyway. Voting to "strike back" at people that you think are insulting you...garbage.

There's no "meeting in the middle" with people that won't even agree on basic facts and who aren't willing to admit they don't know everything. I'm willing to stand corrected on issues, but many are not. I have no time for beating my head against a wall with someone that only wants a whipping boy, not a discussion. Too many people apply labels to themselves and others, and everything, and then get into "discussions" from this bunker of thought. Being kind, it's extremely lazy.

One party is better at boldfaced simplistic lying, that's for sure. I mean, here's some out of work blue collar workers whose companies have moved to China. To boot, their factories are becoming automated. So even if the companies come back, there will be only a fraction of jobs compared to before, and they'll be highly-skilled different jobs (to run the automation!). So people like Trump say: "We'll kill the regulation and your jobs will come back." "Yay! That's exactly what we want to hear!" Well, no shit, it's what you *want* to hear, but it's not factual. I *wanted* to hear that my tumor was benign, but it wasn't, and I had to get surgery and radiation (not to get all personal here!).

Cynically if the Democrats want to win they have to get better at lying. Lies don't seem to come back to bite these people. They also need to get better at deflecting blame (which is probably why the lies don't bite). Lie, then start immediately blaming the other side for why things aren't working out. Sucks for me, since I don't vote for Democrats, I vote against the GOP--and their lying ways are a big reason for it.

 

[vi edit]

Man, if there's a more bs argument than "left wing snobbery made people vote for Trump" I don't want to hear it.

If perceived snobbery made you vote a certain direction, you're an incredibly weak-minded ignorant fool to begin with, and you were just looking for any excuse to vote that way anyway. Voting to "strike back" at people that you think are insulting you...garbage.

There's no "meeting in the middle" with people that won't even agree on basic facts and who aren't willing to admit they don't know everything. I'm willing to stand corrected on issues, but many are not. I have no time for beating my head against a wall with someone that only wants a whipping boy, not a discussion. Too many people apply labels to themselves and others, and everything, and then get into "discussions" from this bunker of thought. Being kind, it's extremely lazy.

One party is better at boldfaced simplistic lying, that's for sure. I mean, here's some out of work blue collar workers whose companies have moved to China. To boot, their factories are becoming automated. So even if the companies come back, there will be only a fraction of jobs compared to before, and they'll be highly-skilled different jobs (to run the automation!). So people like Trump say: "We'll kill the regulation and your jobs will come back." "Yay! That's exactly what we want to hear!" Well, no shit, it's what you *want* to hear, but it's not factual. I *wanted* to hear that my tumor was benign, but it wasn't, and I had to get surgery and radiation (not to get all personal here!).

Cynically if the Democrats want to win they have to get better at lying. Lies don't seem to come back to bite these people. They also need to get better at deflecting blame (which is probably why the lies don't bite). Lie, then start immediately blaming the other side for why things aren't working out. Sucks for me, since I don't vote for Democrats, I vote against the GOP--and their lying ways are a big reason for it.

If this trajectory continues we're going to have to do either a mass exodus of talent or some sort of secession. At a certain point people aren't worth helping if they have zero interest in helping themselves. There's been jokes about California seceding but that's sort of what I'm talking about. Either another country(ies) will make some sort of asylum appeal to educated workers, scientists and teachers and suck talent from here or there will be some sort of highly clustered similar mindset that will create a physical divide in cultures. It's already happening and why the colored electoral map that our President likes to brag about looks the way it does. It's not that way for a coincidence. Eventually minds are going to be so set in their ways that there will be no "winning" over. At that point our democracy is done and we'll be moving to the dissolved republic model of post USSR Russia.

 

[jackstar7]

If this trajectory continues we're going to have to do either a mass exodus of talent or some sort of secession. At a certain point people aren't worth helping if they have zero interest in helping themselves. There's been jokes about California seceding but that's sort of what I'm talking about. Either another country(ies) will make some sort of asylum appeal to educated workers, scientists and teachers and suck talent from here or there will be some sort of highly clustered similar mindset that will create a physical divide in cultures. It's already happening and why the colored electoral map that our President likes to brag about looks the way it does. It's not that way for a coincidence. Eventually minds are going to be so set in their ways that there will be no "winning" over. At that point our democracy is done and we'll be moving to the dissolved republic model of post USSR Russia.

The cruel irony of those dummies that yearn for a Galt's Gulch scenario having no sense that they are the ones who will be left behind...

 

[Jhhnn]

If this trajectory continues we're going to have to do either a mass exodus of talent or some sort of secession. At a certain point people aren't worth helping if they have zero interest in helping themselves. There's been jokes about California seceding but that's sort of what I'm talking about. Either another country(ies) will make some sort of asylum appeal to educated workers, scientists and teachers and suck talent from here or there will be some sort of highly clustered similar mindset that will create a physical divide in cultures. It's already happening and why the colored electoral map that our President likes to brag about looks the way it does. It's not that way for a coincidence. Eventually minds are going to be so set in their ways that there will be no "winning" over. At that point our democracy is done and we'll be moving to the dissolved republic model of post USSR Russia.

Conservatives want America to be the way it was before Reagan but they don't want any of the New Deal things that made it that way. No Unions. No fairness doctrine. No regulated industries. No progressive taxes. No impediments to profit.

It was a system that evolved from the great Republican disaster of the Great Depression. It played on systemic impediments to profit taking in trade, transportation & technology to carve out a piece for the little guy. As Capitalism has overcome those impediments the little guy has ended up with less & less of the pie. That's particularly true in economic backwaters, the places the Jerb Creators no longer function as such. They've been destroying jobs for decades as the investor class has claimed the economic fruits of progress to be theirs alone.

We need a new New Deal if we're to enjoy broad based prosperity, something that transcends conservative moralisms about work & reward simply because our Capitalists require less & less American work in an ongoing & progressive fashion. Otherwise, people will just be shit out of luck, stuck in both urban & rural communities where money always goes out but very little comes in.