Colin Powell: It's Too Late for Iraq to Negotiate

[charrison]

Originally posted by: LH
We dont have anywhere near 225k ground troops over there, 75k tops. Yes people have been shipped over there, theres been a steady stream shipped over their for over a year now. Its not going to happen until Feb/March, and when it does it'll be hell for the middle east and our troops.

We arent going to rush in there, because its going to be 95% urban fighting, and Saddam will likely use WMD on US/British troops, not just on Israel and Turkey.

Im talking war, war. No stuff like afghanistan or the past 10 years in Iraq(post Desert Storm). We've been bombing Iraq for years. The ground war wont start till Feb/March, and its going to last a long time.

Bagdahd will be surrounded within a week of ground war starting. The street fighting could get very messy, but how many soldiers really want to die for Hussein? The iraq soldiers will know from the previous gulfwar that POW are treated fairly.

IT has been reported that US military has requested 20 Airlanes between here and the middle east.

 

[optoman]

Saddam better bend over and kiss his ass goodbye.

 

[hollowman]

Originally posted by: LH
We dont have anywhere near 225k ground troops over there, 75k tops. Yes people have been shipped over there, theres been a steady stream shipped over their for over a year now. Its not going to happen until Feb/March, and when it does it'll be hell for the middle east and our troops.

We arent going to rush in there, because its going to be 95% urban fighting, and Saddam will likely use WMD on US/British troops, not just on Israel and Turkey.

Im talking war, war. No stuff like afghanistan or the past 10 years in Iraq(post Desert Storm). We've been bombing Iraq for years. The ground war wont start till Feb/March, and its going to last a long time.

why is it going to last a long time? Iraqi has huge army or something? (just curious.. does anyone have a demographic chart for Iraqi army or somethign?)

thanks.

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: Paulson
Damnit... just what we need...

I hate wars, never know what they're planning to do and what could possibly happen. All I know is I wanna live long enough to get laid.

Lol, relax. Unless you're gonna be in Iraq, you got nothing to worry about.



and GTA, the war won't start for moths. My guess is Q1'03.

if you're talkin about government fiscal years that in about 2 weeks....

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: LH
...and when it does it'll be hell for the middle east and our troops.

If you think it's going to be hell for our guys, just imagine the hellfire, death, and destruction that will rain down upon Saddam. Especially if he decides to use WMD on anyone.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: hollowman

Originally posted by: LH
We dont have anywhere near 225k ground troops over there, 75k tops. Yes people have been shipped over there, theres been a steady stream shipped over their for over a year now. Its not going to happen until Feb/March, and when it does it'll be hell for the middle east and our troops.

We arent going to rush in there, because its going to be 95% urban fighting, and Saddam will likely use WMD on US/British troops, not just on Israel and Turkey.

Im talking war, war. No stuff like afghanistan or the past 10 years in Iraq(post Desert Storm). We've been bombing Iraq for years. The ground war wont start till Feb/March, and its going to last a long time.

why is it going to last a long time? Iraqi has huge army or something? (just curious.. does anyone have a demographic chart for Iraqi army or somethign?)

thanks.

The iraqi army is about 1/3 the size it was in 91 and they have had a real hard time ordering spare parts for their equipment.

In the gulf war we used about 10% smart bombs, now we are using about 90% smart bombs.

 

[LH]

You guys seriously underestimate Iraq. Im not saying we're going to lose but, its going to take alot longer than 2 weeks to make it to Baghdad. The only reason we had such an easy time with Desert Storm is because he suprised them by flanking them. Do you think they are going to fall for it again?

Yes they have less people, but they still have over half a million ground troops, and they have better radar, and AA equipment. Ordering spare parts? Sh!t, they get brand spanking new equipment from China(which china gets from Russia and Israel).

 

[wQuay]

I just hope Iraq doesn't have cells in the US.

 

[LH]

In the gulf war we used about 10% smart bombs, now we are using about 90% smart bombs.

It doesnt matter what kinda of missles and bombs we got. This isnt going to be an airwar. If it was an airwar, we be looking at atleast 250k civilian deaths if not more. This is a GROUND WAR. The UN and the World will NOT allow use to bomb cities, even with smart bombs. The way the Iraqi infustructure is laid out, we bomb, even with smart bombs, we will kill massive amounts of civilians.

It is going to be an urban ground war. If we were allowed to take whatever means avalible, oh sh!t we could wipe them out in short order, but the rest of the world wont allow that. Its going to be a bloody war, with huge loss of life on the Iraqi side(civilian and otherwise), and the US is going to have quite a few come home in bodybags.

Anyone that thinks this is Desert Storm Part 2, really has to understand, Iraq has more military capabilities today, than it did in '91, they may have less people but they will still be fighting us with more troops. And since they are going to make it an urban war, its going to be a hell of alot messier.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: LH

In the gulf war we used about 10% smart bombs, now we are using about 90% smart bombs.

It doesnt matter what kinda of missles and bombs we got. This isnt going to be an airwar. If it was an airwar, we be looking at atleast 250k civilian deaths if not more. This is a GROUND WAR. The UN and the World will NOT allow use to bomb cities, even with smart bombs. The way the Iraqi infustructure is laid out, we bomb, even with smart bombs, we will kill massive amounts of civilians.

This is going to be much like last time around. There is going to be a softening Iraqi defences followed by some sort of ground war. Will we use the same left hook again, probably not. Will we do something as clever, most likely. When the ground war starts, most of the country will be taken within a week and the major cities will be put under seige. Anyone in the city that wants to come out with their hands up, will be let out, and the rest will be delt with. How long will it take a city to surrender after the water and power has been cut off is unknown.

It is also quit possible that the iraqi people will welcome the US with open arms....

 

[sandorski]

I doubt Iraq will meet the invasion in the open desert, thus the Iraqi military will not be in an indefensible open area, likely. It really is too tough to call right now, Iraqi forces may or may not resist fiercely, there's no way of knowing how they feel about Saddam.

I'm still against such action, in case you're wondering.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: LH
You guys seriously underestimate Iraq. Im not saying we're going to lose but, its going to take alot longer than 2 weeks to make it to Baghdad. The only reason we had such an easy time with Desert Storm is because he suprised them by flanking them. Do you think they are going to fall for it again?

Yes they have less people, but they still have over half a million ground troops, and they have better radar, and AA equipment. Ordering spare parts? Sh!t, they get brand spanking new equipment from China(which china gets from Russia and Israel).

Supprised him? His troops were dug in right on the path of the assualt. The reason we had an easy time in desert storm is because his army is a piece of sh!t training wise, our tatics are far suppier and our weaponry is far more advanced. If you think his troops can stand against us you are fvcking insane. The only real risk is street fighting and the civilian casualties we will have to inflict to win the city. But like Desert storm I have a feeling the psycological aspect of the war will make that much easier, psyops will win the hearts and minds just like they did in desert storm.

 

[kherman]

OK, now for some news

I live in Gales Ferry, CT (Same as Ledyard, CT).
basically, the land goes:
My lot
then woods
then the sub base.

Yes, the Groton sub base is in my back yard, and VERY well fortified.

Anyways, here's what I'm getting at. The firing range is also on the same side of the side base that is closest to my yard. Normally, I would hear gun fire once in a while. Maybe once a month. Every day this wekend, I heard gun fire. Something is going on! Read into it as much as you'd like, but this is definitley against the norm. Whatever they were shooting was VERY high caliber rounds because it was pretty damn loud.

 

[spaceman]

wouldnt it be nice if someone in his country just blew his head off...

 

[kherman]

pshhhh pshhhhh

Iraqi soldier: "Waht's that?"
US soldier: "Musket repellant."

 

[jjones]

"Enough is enough," said Bush, who argued that Saddam has defied the United Nations 16 times since the Persian Gulf War. "The United Nations will either be able to function as a peacekeeping body as we head into the 21st century, or it will be irrelevant, and that's what we are about to find out."

Out of that CNN article, this is what I liked best. This is not just a showdown with Iraq but a showdown between the US and the UN and I couldn't agree more. Either the UN takes its place in the peacekeeping role and backs up its resolution making or it finally becomes officially recognized as the trivial organization it is.

 

[aswedc]

I agree with LH. This operation is too dangerous, to take out a leader we have no real evidence poses a threat to us. Its amazing how public opinion can be turned just by endless propaganda from the Bush administration. Also, remember just a few weeks ago Powell was ready to quit at the end of this administration over the Iraq issue, I believe he is just going along because he has to.

 

[kherman]

Originally posted by: aswedc
Also, remember just a few weeks ago Powell was ready to quit at the end of this administration over the Iraq issue, I believe he is just going along because he has to.

People ... retire ????

What a novel idea.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: kherman
OK, now for some news

I live in Gales Ferry, CT (Same as Ledyard, CT).
basically, the land goes:
My lot
then woods
then the sub base.

Yes, the Groton sub base is in my back yard, and VERY well fortified.

Anyways, here's what I'm getting at. The firing range is also on the same side of the side base that is closest to my yard. Normally, I would hear gun fire once in a while. Maybe once a month. Every day this wekend, I heard gun fire. Something is going on! Read into it as much as you'd like, but this is definitley against the norm. Whatever they were shooting was VERY high caliber rounds because it was pretty damn loud.

Oh shut up. Reservists use the gun range on the weekends to maintain gun quals. Ther amount of small arms fire on SubBase New London has nothing to do with any activity in Iraq.

BTW my personal opinion is that there will be no war in Iraq especially after the Security Council passes a resolution that will allow military force for non-compliance.

 

[308nato]

When did POWELL say he was going to quit ? I think it was the NY times that said he was going to quit. big difference.

With the temps in the Iraqi desert reaching 120>130 degrees in summer, you can be sure we will go soon or it will be next year. The negotiating was completed 10 years ago. There is nothing for them to negotiate.

 

[kherman]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

Originally posted by: kherman
OK, now for some news

I live in Gales Ferry, CT (Same as Ledyard, CT).
basically, the land goes:
My lot
then woods
then the sub base.

Yes, the Groton sub base is in my back yard, and VERY well fortified.

Anyways, here's what I'm getting at. The firing range is also on the same side of the side base that is closest to my yard. Normally, I would hear gun fire once in a while. Maybe once a month. Every day this wekend, I heard gun fire. Something is going on! Read into it as much as you'd like, but this is definitley against the norm. Whatever they were shooting was VERY high caliber rounds because it was pretty damn loud.

Oh shut up. Reservists use the gun range on the weekends to maintain gun quals. Ther amount of small arms fire on SubBase New London has nothing to do with any activity in Iraq.

BTW my personal opinion is that there will be no war in Iraq especially after the Security Council passes a resolution that will allow military force for non-compliance.

You shut up. You are an idiot! Do you live next to a military base? I doubt it. The gun range is probably 1/2 mile from my house. I could go online and give yo uthe exact milage. Anyways. Like I said, there has been a receent increase in the amount of gun fire practice/training at the sub base. Yes, people need to maintain there gun quals. I didn't say they didn't. But there was atleast 10 times the amount of gun fire this weekend as I normally hear.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: kherman

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

Originally posted by: kherman
OK, now for some news

I live in Gales Ferry, CT (Same as Ledyard, CT).
basically, the land goes:
My lot
then woods
then the sub base.

Yes, the Groton sub base is in my back yard, and VERY well fortified.

Anyways, here's what I'm getting at. The firing range is also on the same side of the side base that is closest to my yard. Normally, I would hear gun fire once in a while. Maybe once a month. Every day this wekend, I heard gun fire. Something is going on! Read into it as much as you'd like, but this is definitley against the norm. Whatever they were shooting was VERY high caliber rounds because it was pretty damn loud.

Oh shut up. Reservists use the gun range on the weekends to maintain gun quals. Ther amount of small arms fire on SubBase New London has nothing to do with any activity in Iraq.

BTW my personal opinion is that there will be no war in Iraq especially after the Security Council passes a resolution that will allow military force for non-compliance.

You shut up. You are an idiot! Do you live next to a military base? I doubt it. The gun range is probably 1/2 mile from my house. I could go online and give yo uthe exact milage. Anyways. Like I said, there has been a receent increase in the amount of gun fire practice/training at the sub base. Yes, people need to maintain there gun quals. I didn't say they didn't. But there was atleast 10 times the amount of gun fire this weekend as I normally hear.

No I live on a military base and I have been stationed on that particular base several times in the last 18 years. An increase in small arms practice(says you) is hardly an indicator of widespread military activity. Especially on a submarine base. Get a clue.

 

[BoberFett]

LOL, gotta love armchair generals, eh Dave?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If we are anticipating a quick war, then why is it going to cost this much

As far as the Iraqi people welcoming the US, while it is possible, consider that many will not see us as liberators, but invaders. We are there to kill whoever gets between us and their leadership. While they might just hate Saddam, people might just like having their family members threatened/injured/killed less.

How long will this take? Hell I have no idea. Depends on how determined people are there. Baghdad is a big place, taking a city might take 2 weeks or a great deal longer. We have never fought something quite like this. Civilian casualties could be from a few thousand to hundreds of thousands depending on how we are percieved.

 

[kherman]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

Originally posted by: kherman

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

Originally posted by: kherman
OK, now for some news

I live in Gales Ferry, CT (Same as Ledyard, CT).
basically, the land goes:
My lot
then woods
then the sub base.

Yes, the Groton sub base is in my back yard, and VERY well fortified.

Anyways, here's what I'm getting at. The firing range is also on the same side of the side base that is closest to my yard. Normally, I would hear gun fire once in a while. Maybe once a month. Every day this wekend, I heard gun fire. Something is going on! Read into it as much as you'd like, but this is definitley against the norm. Whatever they were shooting was VERY high caliber rounds because it was pretty damn loud.

Oh shut up. Reservists use the gun range on the weekends to maintain gun quals. Ther amount of small arms fire on SubBase New London has nothing to do with any activity in Iraq.

BTW my personal opinion is that there will be no war in Iraq especially after the Security Council passes a resolution that will allow military force for non-compliance.

You shut up. You are an idiot! Do you live next to a military base? I doubt it. The gun range is probably 1/2 mile from my house. I could go online and give yo uthe exact milage. Anyways. Like I said, there has been a receent increase in the amount of gun fire practice/training at the sub base. Yes, people need to maintain there gun quals. I didn't say they didn't. But there was atleast 10 times the amount of gun fire this weekend as I normally hear.

No I live on a military base and I have been stationed on that particular base several times in the last 18 years. An increase in small arms practice(says you) is hardly an indicator of widespread military activity. Especially on a submarine base. Get a clue.

I agree, I need to get a clue. So, maybe you, can tell me, why there has been a recent increase in weapons training. Also, if it is because of doing gun quals, under what scenerio would a 10X increase in gun qual be related? Under what scenerio(s) would such an increase "normally" occur?

What's the fact of it being a sub-base have to do with anything? That just tells me you have no clue.