Cold air intake question

[RampantAndroid]

Hi all,

I'm considering doing a cold air intake on my 2010 Acura TSX - an AEM CAI using a dry filter. (Dynamo chart)

Now, my question is this: the intake reaches down below the current filter, below the battery and in front of the wheel well. If I look under the car, Acura has plastic covering the bottom to prevent major splashes, but the plastic on the bottom has vents cut into it. Now, I drive into the mountains for snowboarding regularly, and I live in Seattle area, the land of rain. Will I be risking damage from getting the CAI wet?

Thanks!
RA

 

[NutBucket]

Wet, no. Submerged, yes!

But honestly, it doesn't do a whole lot aside from adding noise. You will not notice any increase on the butt dyno.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Wet, no. Submerged, yes!

But honestly, it doesn't do a whole lot aside from adding noise. You will not notice any increase on the butt dyno.

So you're saying I won't feel that extra 10 ft-lbs of torque at 3k RPM? I mean...low RPM is where that engine has no power at all....so I'd think a difference of 10 would be worth it.

And won't a CAI improve mileage a slight amount as long as I don't have a lead foot?

 

[jhu]

So you're saying I won't feel that extra 10 ft-lbs of torque at 3k RPM? I mean...low RPM is where that engine has no power at all....so I'd think a difference of 10 would be worth it.

And won't a CAI improve mileage a slight amount as long as I don't have a lead foot?

A CAI will decrease gas mileage. Cold air is denser, so that requires more fuel to burn cleanly. If anything a hot air intake will increase gas mileage at the cost of less power.

 

[Apex]

And won't a CAI improve mileage a slight amount as long as I don't have a lead foot?

Depends on how the ECU adjusts to change in air temp & volume. Many vehicles do experience some mileage improvement (basically, the car is spending more time running leaner), but not all.

 

[jhu]

Depends on how the ECU adjusts to change in air temp & volume. Many vehicles do experience some mileage improvement (basically, the car is spending more time running leaner), but not all.

I thought ECUs aren't allowed to do that (without flashing) due to emissions?

 

[RampantAndroid]

A CAI will decrease gas mileage. Cold air is denser, so that requires more fuel to burn cleanly. If anything a hot air intake will increase gas mileage at the cost of less power.

Feel free to correct my physics here, but a combustion engine's efficiency is in part determined by the temperature delta, right?

 

[arcenite]

So you're saying I won't feel that extra 10 ft-lbs of torque at 3k RPM? I mean...low RPM is where that engine has no power at all....so I'd think a difference of 10 would be worth it.

And won't a CAI improve mileage a slight amount as long as I don't have a lead foot?

Depends on your goals. As someone with a modded LS2 it pains me to see you up in arms about 10 (theoretical) hp. It also pains me to see that someone paid to have a dyno for a before and after of a CAI. In fact, I find it hard to believe. Are you sure a tune wasn't involved?

Do what I tell everyone on any subject: "Do what helps you sleep at night."d

Edit: I see you're looking at a dyno (dynamometer not dynamo) straight from AEM. It all makes sense now. Do yourself a favor and check out TSX forums to see what the real deal is about.

 

[punjabiplaya]

you should be worried about hydro lock, not getting it wet. And if you're really worried, get an SRI instead.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

My car came with a CAI and I will never install one on a new car. It just isn't worth it.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Eh, I guess I'll go with a rear stabilizing bar instead...I know I'll end up with finite results there. Thanks all!

 

[punjabiplaya]

in4oversteer

 

[LTC8K6]

Make a small hole up high in the air intake path, but before any air metering. This small air hole will prevent any water from being pulled into the lower end of the intake tubing.

 

[exdeath]

Intake is a supporting mod for when you are moving enough air for it to be a restriction in the first place. You really need to do a dyno pull without the intake at all to see if it's really a restriction in the first place.

Some engines like the LS1 are ideal candidates for seeing real gains from a simple intake due to the crappy OEM design that either has too many bends, too narrow piping, tight bends, flattened over the radiator, inlet to the air box not utilizing the whole surface area of the filter, etc

Also <= 10 HP is within the repeatability error of a dyno pull and of no consequence.

Cold air is also a retarded marketing phrase. I don't know of any OEM stock intake that DOESN'T pull "cold air" from the inner fender.

 

[Apex]

I thought ECUs aren't allowed to do that (without flashing) due to emissions?

Nah (and also, for what it's worth, lean burning tends to be cleaner).

 

[exdeath]

I thought ECUs aren't allowed to do that (without flashing) due to emissions?

Pollution is caused by improperly balanced chemical reactions and reaction temperatures for the most part. Emissions controls only serve to achieve balanced chemisty, it has nothing to do with quantity. You WANT more fuel added if more air is added if you want clean exhaust. Either direction, too much air or too much fuel, creates undesireable byproducts. 1 ton of gas + 14.8 tons air burns just as clean as 1 gram of gas + 14.8 grams of air and produces perfect combusion byproducts of CO2 and H2O.

The exhaust of a Viper is just as clean as the exhaust of a Prius.

 

[punjabiplaya]

yeah, but it sounds so much better

 

[stag3]

get a prefilter if you're worried about hydrolock


http://www.racinglab.com/aem-pre-filter-air-filter-wraps.html

 

[NutBucket]

Eh, I guess I'll go with a rear stabilizing bar instead...I know I'll end up with finite results there. Thanks all!

Agreed. That and better tires will make a huge difference that you can appreciate. Anything short of forced induction isn't going to make your car noticeably faster. Well, you could go full-tilt and build the motor for high compression but that's certainly not trivial either.

 

[Zebo]

Dyno chart is BS. Same engine no changes can vary like that. I'd go to enthusiast forums and see what guys are doing. That's what I did on diesel truck. Breathing better helps but real change is done via mechanical and chemical means IME. (blowers, turbos, propane, etc)

 

[vshah]

only worth it if you were going to do headers and exhaust as well - then you might see 10hp out of it at the top end.
however the k24 on the newer tsx has an integrated exhaust manifold, so that's not really an option

 

[hanoverphist]

Intake is a supporting mod for when you are moving enough air for it to be a restriction in the first place. You really need to do a dyno pull without the intake at all to see if it's really a restriction in the first place.

Cold air is also a retarded marketing phrase. I don't know of any OEM stock intake that DOESN'T pull "cold air" from the inner fender.

both of these. although, i do understand that pulling air right from on top of the engine (like my old impala did when i got rid of the stock air handler) will be a lot hotter than the current systems on pretty much any vehicle. my dodge truck pulls air from the passenger side fender well, clear of any engine air.

i always saw the CAI systems as an increased aspiration when youre actually putting out more exhaust than bringing in.

 

[JCH13]

The AEM dyno results are not from one pull, the note says that each plot is an average of 3rd gear runs. I don't know how many.

Feel free to correct my physics here, but a combustion engine's efficiency is in part determined by the temperature delta, right?

Yep. But if the air comes in cooler, it will exit cooler for the same amount of heat added to it. The advantage of cooler air is that you can fit more mass in. A rule of thumb I've heard is that dropping an IAT by 10F will add about 1% of the total power because the air is denser.

OP: As some have mentioned CAI gain varies a lot from car to car. Many have measured a CAI for my MS3 as adding 25whp, and even larger off-peak gains. If the CAI improves over the OE design it might very well add noticeable power. FWIW my MS3's CAI is an AEM unit, and IMHO they know what they're doing.

 

[thomsbrain]

Eh, I guess I'll go with a rear stabilizing bar instead...I know I'll end up with finite results there. Thanks all!

The TL-S bar should bolt right in to your TSX and costs like $50. Can't go wrong. Made a big difference in my Accord.

 

[Apex]

Pollution is caused by improperly balanced chemical reactions and reaction temperatures for the most part. Emissions controls only serve to achieve balanced chemisty, it has nothing to do with quantity. You WANT more fuel added if more air is added if you want clean exhaust. Either direction, too much air or too much fuel, creates undesireable byproducts. 1 ton of gas + 14.8 tons air burns just as clean as 1 gram of gas + 14.8 grams of air and produces perfect combusion byproducts of CO2 and H2O.

The exhaust of a Viper is just as clean as the exhaust of a Prius.

In this application, the TSX routinely runs up above the 17:1 range. While it's not quite as lean as Honda's stratified charge type systems, it's designed to run properly quite a bit above the stoichiometric ideal. It runs a NOx catalyst specifically for the lean burn.

Otherwise, I agree with the stoichiometric ideal for your typical 3-way converter equipped systems.