Cock... without the a-doodle-doo

[AbsolutDealage]

Originally posted by: sao123
BTW... didnt KFC get sued for serving genetically altered chickens not too many years ago...

No.

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: sygyzy
What does KFC and genetically altered meat have to do with PETA's plans? This has been discussed before. Many vegetarians say their problem with meat is how they animals are raised (poorly) and slaughtered. Given a choice of 100% identical meat but not attached to an animal confuses the heck out of vegetarians.

Vegetarians are stupid anyway. They claim to be against meat, so they take soy, and flavor it with bizarre ingredients so it tastes like meat, and shape it and dye it so it looks like meat, and treat it so it tries to have the texture of meat... if you're going to go to all that trouble to pretend to eat an animal, you're more twisted than if you were just eating the damn animal to begin with. Tofurkey, Facon, a whole variety of tofu products, these are not things a sane individual would think to invent. That's like stabbing a mannequin because it gives you the thrill of killing someone without the guilty conscience. You're still a sick, twisted fuck.

Someone hopped on the judgment train to work today.

I'm a conductor on the judgment train. My string section is amazing, but the horns need a little work...

I don't get your rant, people play fps and make them as real as possible yet most of them don't actually want to kill people. Vegetarians don't want to eat meat yet they realize they have evolved to enjoy the taste. Animal flesh has been a staple in modern mans diet for 10's of thousands of years, of course our body likes how it tastes. Plus most recipes many people have grown up with have meat in them. So if you don't want to eat meat but you still want to try that recipe what should you do?

 

[Bill Brasky]

As Far as I know, the only cells that divide indefinitely in tissue culture are cancerous. Have fun eating a big tumor.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: Eli
That's an interesting way of looking at it. It's the other way around, though.

These products were made because there was a market for them. Simple as that.

Yes, and that market is people who want the visceral thrill of eating an animal without having to feel sad that an animal is dead. If they didn't want to be eating bacon, Facon wouldn't exist. Vegetarians would look at it and go, "Oh, that's tasteless and wrong." Instead, they get a little moisture in their panties because they can finally enjoy eating pig flesh without hurting a pig. It's sick and wrong.

The visceral thril of eating an animal?

Dude.. lol

It's food. Some people watch what they eat.

Some people can't eat ice cream because they are lactose intolerant. Enter soy ice cream.

Some people don't eat bacon because its full of fat. Enter soy bacon.

Have you had a boca or garden burger lately? They're actually really good. I don't think they should even be compared to meat, but they're good in their own right.

It isn't sick and wrong, thinking that way is fucked up. People aren't like, "Muwhahahaha... PIG!!!!" whenever they eat bacon or Facon.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: BudAshes
I don't get your rant, people play fps and make them as real as possible yet most of them don't actually want to kill people. Vegetarians don't want to eat meat yet they realize they have evolved to enjoy the taste. Animal flesh has been a staple in modern mans diet for 10's of thousands of years, of course our body likes how it tastes. Plus most recipes many people have grown up with have meat in them. So if you don't want to eat meat but you still want to try that recipe what should you do?

You should eat meat. Our evolutionary trail has led us to be omnivores, and we need the nutrients from both meats and vegetables to survive. It's not healthy to try to completely eliminate meat from your diet; you have to take a whole mess of additional vitamins and supplements, many of which are derived from meat. That, and it's just stupid to eat pretend meat while decrying meat-eating as bad.

Incidentally, we didn't evolve to like the taste of meat. We evolved to require certain proteins and amino acids that are commonly found in meat (and extremely rarely in vegetables). Without these essential nutrients, we would die. It has nothing to do with taste; that is an added benefit.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: Eli
People aren't like, "Muwhahahaha... PIG!!!!" whenever they eat bacon or Facon.

Speak for yourself; when I eat bacon, I like to cry, "Wilbuuuuuur!" and then cackle like a witch.

That'll do pig... that'll do.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: BudAshes
I don't get your rant, people play fps and make them as real as possible yet most of them don't actually want to kill people. Vegetarians don't want to eat meat yet they realize they have evolved to enjoy the taste. Animal flesh has been a staple in modern mans diet for 10's of thousands of years, of course our body likes how it tastes. Plus most recipes many people have grown up with have meat in them. So if you don't want to eat meat but you still want to try that recipe what should you do?

You should eat meat. Our evolutionary trail has led us to be omnivores, and we need the nutrients from both meats and vegetables to survive. It's not healthy to try to completely eliminate meat from your diet; you have to take a whole mess of additional vitamins and supplements, many of which are derived from meat. That, and it's just stupid to eat pretend meat while decrying meat-eating as bad.

Incidentally, we didn't evolve to like the taste of meat. We evolved to require certain proteins and amino acids that are commonly found in meat (and extremely rarely in vegetables). Without these essential nutrients, we would die. It has nothing to do with taste; that is an added benefit.

That's the whole thing. Our technology and knowledge of nutrition enables us to do exactly that; not eat meat.

I understand what you're saying, but its narrow minded and shallow. It doesn't work like that. There are perfectly valid reasons for decrying meat-eating as bad. That doesn't mean you have to agree with them. But they're still valid points.

It's no different than those around here that would virtually boycott Monster Cable or Bose. If you don't like a product, you don't buy it. You buy alternatives.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Eli
:thumbsup:

I'm all for lab meat.

It could solve a lot of the world's food problems.

Growing meat should take much less energy and space than actually raising the animals.

Cells just don't come out of nowhere you know... it will likely take MORE energy, especially in the form of petroleum distillates to create this crap.

I am aware that cells don't come out of nowhere, but I'm not entirely sure they come out of petroleum distillates.

Originally posted by: Zaitsev
As Far as I know, the only cells that divide indefinitely in tissue culture are cancerous. Have fun eating a big tumor.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. There's a lot more to cell division than that. Plus, who says you have to make cells divide "indefinitely"? We've been using yeast, mold, bacteria, and other organisms for far longer than the lifespan of any one individual.

Artificial meat would probably involve a bunch of niches for stem cells, which would be induced to divide and the resultant cells differentiated to the appropriate tissues. You'd probably want to test for mutations ever so often, but in a controlled environment the risk is much lower than in "real life."
I doubt this could be achieved in four years.

Alternatively, you could use a mutated host animal which continuously develops more and more muscle which can then get sliced off and re-grown, but somehow I doubt that's what PETA intends with this prize.:laugh:

As for me, I can see myself eating artificial meat eventually, but certainly not something which is rushed out the door within four years to win a prize put forth by a group which detests meat-eaters.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: Eli
That's the whole thing. Our technology and knowledge of nutrition enables us to do exactly that; not eat meat.

I understand what you're saying, but its narrow minded and shallow. It doesn't work like that. There are perfectly valid reasons for decrying meat-eating as bad. That doesn't mean you have to agree with them. But they're still valid points.

It's no different than those around here that would virtually boycott Monster Cable or Bose. If you don't like a product, you don't buy it. You buy alternatives.

No I agree. If you don't want to eat meat, fine. I just don't like it when someone cops a holier than thou attitude because their burger is made of crushed vegetation instead of crushed cow. This whole discussion started with an act by PETA, one of the most ridiculous anti-meat groups in the country. This is a group that will tell you it is better to be a vegetarian than a subsistence hunter because eating meat is unnatural. I disagree.

I believe we should be allowed to speak our minds about these things. Personally, I enjoy the irony in people who only eat facsimiles of meat. That's funny. I also think we should be allowed to stage boycotts, because let's face it, Monster and Bose practice unfair business practices which allow them to squelch out competition and continue putting out inferior products at a high price point, preying on the ignorance of consumers to spur sales. I don't agree with that practice, and I'm going to speak out against it when I see it. But that's not really in the same ballpark as seeing the irony in people who eat tofurkey or facon.

And finally, the technology argument. Have you noticed how everything technology gives us, at least nutritionally, turns out to be bad? Technology gave us high fructose corn syrup, partially hydrogenated soybean oil, trans fats, olestra, artificial sweeteners and a whole bevy of chemical dyes. Now it turns out all this shit is killing us in various ways, whether it is through obesity or cancer or liver disease or what have you. Technology tries to help out in food preparation, and it has almost universally failed. Forgive me for thinking that a natural diet consisting of meat and vegetables is going to be more in line with what our body needs to survive, but I just don't trust science that much in this area. Call me crazy; I'm just waiting for the news report 20 years down the road that links protein supplements to kidney failure. I'm not looking to lord it over those smug vegetarians, don't get me wrong... I'm just a big fan of irony.

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: BudAshes
I don't get your rant, people play fps and make them as real as possible yet most of them don't actually want to kill people. Vegetarians don't want to eat meat yet they realize they have evolved to enjoy the taste. Animal flesh has been a staple in modern mans diet for 10's of thousands of years, of course our body likes how it tastes. Plus most recipes many people have grown up with have meat in them. So if you don't want to eat meat but you still want to try that recipe what should you do?

You should eat meat. Our evolutionary trail has led us to be omnivores, and we need the nutrients from both meats and vegetables to survive. It's not healthy to try to completely eliminate meat from your diet; you have to take a whole mess of additional vitamins and supplements, many of which are derived from meat. That, and it's just stupid to eat pretend meat while decrying meat-eating as bad.

Incidentally, we didn't evolve to like the taste of meat. We evolved to require certain proteins and amino acids that are commonly found in meat (and extremely rarely in vegetables). Without these essential nutrients, we would die. It has nothing to do with taste; that is an added benefit.

Taste is as much a part of evolution as any of our other senses, added benefits are what evolution is. Being a human with access to technology means you can do what you want to do, not what evolution has set out for you. Technology gives us ways to facilitate our own evolution, and someone doesn't want to include eating meat in that future then what do you care?

You are also ridiculously misinformed about the health detriments of a vegetarian diet in this day and age.

 

[zinfamous]

easy as pie.

while I'm not familiar with research involving chick ES cells, we've certainly used mouse, rat, and human ES cells to create muscle tissue. don't know the efficacy of chick ES cell research though......

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Eli
:thumbsup:

I'm all for lab meat.

It could solve a lot of the world's food problems.

Growing meat should take much less energy and space than actually raising the animals.

Cells just don't come out of nowhere you know... it will likely take MORE energy, especially in the form of petroleum distillates to create this crap.

i'm guessing this is related to the inefficiencies of creating fuel from corn and such?

feeding cells is no biggie. bath in media. rinse, repeat. you definitely don't want anything resembling petroleum near extremely sensitive cells.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
easy as pie.

while I'm not familiar with research involving chick ES cells, we've certainly used mouse, rat, and human ES cells to create muscle tissue. don't know the efficacy of chick ES cell research though......

It's not as easy as pie.

It would be easy to grow a single layer of cells in a petri dish.

It will not be as easy to make a chicken breast.

 

[D1gger]

Originally posted by: isekii
I would never eat any lab grown imitation chickens.

What do you think McNuggets are?

 

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Eli
:thumbsup:

I'm all for lab meat.

It could solve a lot of the world's food problems.

Growing meat should take much less energy and space than actually raising the animals.

Cells just don't come out of nowhere you know... it will likely take MORE energy, especially in the form of petroleum distillates to create this crap.

I am aware that cells don't come out of nowhere, but I'm not entirely sure they come out of petroleum distillates.

Originally posted by: Zaitsev
As Far as I know, the only cells that divide indefinitely in tissue culture are cancerous. Have fun eating a big tumor.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. There's a lot more to cell division than that. Plus, who says you have to make cells divide "indefinitely"? We've been using yeast, mold, bacteria, and other organisms for far longer than the lifespan of any one individual.

Artificial meat would probably involve a bunch of niches for stem cells, which would be induced to divide and the resultant cells differentiated to the appropriate tissues. You'd probably want to test for mutations ever so often, but in a controlled environment the risk is much lower than in "real life."
I doubt this could be achieved in four years.

Alternatively, you could use a mutated host animal which continuously develops more and more muscle which can then get sliced off and re-grown, but somehow I doubt that's what PETA intends with this prize.:laugh:

As for me, I can see myself eating artificial meat eventually, but certainly not something which is rushed out the door within four years to win a prize put forth by a group which detests meat-eaters.

Where would these stem cells come from? Most likely hens. So what's the point if you're still killing chickens? I realize that theoretically you'd be killing fewer animals, but you get my point.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: zinfamous
easy as pie.

while I'm not familiar with research involving chick ES cells, we've certainly used mouse, rat, and human ES cells to create muscle tissue. don't know the efficacy of chick ES cell research though......

It's not as easy as pie.

It would be easy to grow a single layer of cells in a petri dish.

It will not be as easy to make a chicken breast.

easy being relative. we've grown capillaries, muscle tissue, hell....some Swedish wizards grew an entire freaking heart (mouse, I believe) out of ES cells. Heart is muscle tissue...cept more complicated.

so...why not grow a freaking chicken breast?

again, the only difficulty I see is using chick stem cells. I haven't seen any group using them before, so I don't know if they're even "usable."

 

[dbk]

I'll eat it... just don't tell me about it.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Zaitsev

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Eli
:thumbsup:

I'm all for lab meat.

It could solve a lot of the world's food problems.

Growing meat should take much less energy and space than actually raising the animals.

Cells just don't come out of nowhere you know... it will likely take MORE energy, especially in the form of petroleum distillates to create this crap.

I am aware that cells don't come out of nowhere, but I'm not entirely sure they come out of petroleum distillates.

Originally posted by: Zaitsev
As Far as I know, the only cells that divide indefinitely in tissue culture are cancerous. Have fun eating a big tumor.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. There's a lot more to cell division than that. Plus, who says you have to make cells divide "indefinitely"? We've been using yeast, mold, bacteria, and other organisms for far longer than the lifespan of any one individual.

Artificial meat would probably involve a bunch of niches for stem cells, which would be induced to divide and the resultant cells differentiated to the appropriate tissues. You'd probably want to test for mutations ever so often, but in a controlled environment the risk is much lower than in "real life."
I doubt this could be achieved in four years.

Alternatively, you could use a mutated host animal which continuously develops more and more muscle which can then get sliced off and re-grown, but somehow I doubt that's what PETA intends with this prize.:laugh:

As for me, I can see myself eating artificial meat eventually, but certainly not something which is rushed out the door within four years to win a prize put forth by a group which detests meat-eaters.

Where would these stem cells come from? Most likely hens. So what's the point if you're still killing chickens? I realize that theoretically you'd be killing fewer animals, but you get my point.

let's not get into the "when does life start" argument, b/c there is no clear answer. stem cells are harvested from developing embryos, and can be grown and replicated over several generations.

PETA is PETA, and yes, they're crazy; but the difference between sacrificing a chick embryo compared to a human embryo is well....hell, there is no freaking comparison. it's a g*d damn chicken for chrissakes!

 

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

let's not get into the "when does life start" argument, b/c there is no clear answer. stem cells are harvested from developing embryos, and can be grown and replicated over several generations.

PETA is PETA, and yes, they're crazy; but the difference between sacrificing a chick embryo compared to a human embryo is well....hell, there is no freaking comparison. it's a g*d damn chicken for chrissakes!

Whoa partner. I wasn't implying any of that. My point was that the supply of embryonic stem cells will need to be replenished since they don't divide indefinitely. That means killing more chickens.

 

[IamBusby]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: sygyzy
What does KFC and genetically altered meat have to do with PETA's plans? This has been discussed before. Many vegetarians say their problem with meat is how they animals are raised (poorly) and slaughtered. Given a choice of 100% identical meat but not attached to an animal confuses the heck out of vegetarians.

Vegetarians are stupid anyway. They claim to be against meat, so they take soy, and flavor it with bizarre ingredients so it tastes like meat, and shape it and dye it so it looks like meat, and treat it so it tries to have the texture of meat... if you're going to go to all that trouble to pretend to eat an animal, you're more twisted than if you were just eating the damn animal to begin with. Tofurkey, Facon, a whole variety of tofu products, these are not things a sane individual would think to invent. That's like stabbing a mannequin because it gives you the thrill of killing someone without the guilty conscience. You're still a sick, twisted fuck.

What a stupid way of looking at it.

Vegetarian products are flavoured like meat and in some cases made to look like meat products because the majority of vegeratians like the taste of meat and they have chosen to become vegie due to the suffering of the animals not because they dislike the taste.

As said previously, humans have grown up eating meat. To just give that up isn't easy and if buying products which simulate the taste (albiet it poorly) makes it easier then why not?

I also hate it when people make arguments such as "why do we have canine teeth if we shouldn't eat meat" or "We've always eaten meat, it's part of our evolution". Yes but we also have an appendix but we don't use that anymore.

 

[Ballatician]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: Eli
That's the whole thing. Our technology and knowledge of nutrition enables us to do exactly that; not eat meat.

I understand what you're saying, but its narrow minded and shallow. It doesn't work like that. There are perfectly valid reasons for decrying meat-eating as bad. That doesn't mean you have to agree with them. But they're still valid points.

It's no different than those around here that would virtually boycott Monster Cable or Bose. If you don't like a product, you don't buy it. You buy alternatives.

No I agree. If you don't want to eat meat, fine. I just don't like it when someone cops a holier than thou attitude because their burger is made of crushed vegetation instead of crushed cow. This whole discussion started with an act by PETA, one of the most ridiculous anti-meat groups in the country. This is a group that will tell you it is better to be a vegetarian than a subsistence hunter because eating meat is unnatural. I disagree.

I believe we should be allowed to speak our minds about these things. Personally, I enjoy the irony in people who only eat facsimiles of meat. That's funny. I also think we should be allowed to stage boycotts, because let's face it, Monster and Bose practice unfair business practices which allow them to squelch out competition and continue putting out inferior products at a high price point, preying on the ignorance of consumers to spur sales. I don't agree with that practice, and I'm going to speak out against it when I see it. But that's not really in the same ballpark as seeing the irony in people who eat tofurkey or facon.

And finally, the technology argument. Have you noticed how everything technology gives us, at least nutritionally, turns out to be bad? Technology gave us high fructose corn syrup, partially hydrogenated soybean oil, trans fats, olestra, artificial sweeteners and a whole bevy of chemical dyes. Now it turns out all this shit is killing us in various ways, whether it is through obesity or cancer or liver disease or what have you. Technology tries to help out in food preparation, and it has almost universally failed. Forgive me for thinking that a natural diet consisting of meat and vegetables is going to be more in line with what our body needs to survive, but I just don't trust science that much in this area. Call me crazy; I'm just waiting for the news report 20 years down the road that links protein supplements to kidney failure. I'm not looking to lord it over those smug vegetarians, don't get me wrong... I'm just a big fan of irony.

Theres some good stuff there.

 

[EarthwormJim]

Didn't Isaac Asimov's book have everyone eating yeast products flavored like different kinds of food?