On the topic of getting a college education and not finding a job:
Also common is getting a college degree in a field where jobs don't pay enough to support you with a huge amount of student loan debt. An example of this is a friend who has a sociology degreee and a masters in sociology but only makes 35k a year. If her parents did not help her she should be starving right now. Another person with the same degree just no masters that I know is makeing about 35k a year, however she has 25k in debt due to college and will probably never pay it back unless she wins the lottery.
Also common is getting a college degree in a field where jobs don't pay enough to support you with a huge amount of student loan debt. An example of this is a friend who has a sociology degreee and a masters in sociology but only makes 35k a year. If her parents did not help her she should be starving right now. Another person with the same degree just no masters that I know is makeing about 35k a year, however she has 25k in debt due to college and will probably never pay it back unless she wins the lottery.
Not to diminish the larger issue of jobs getting harder to find (I think my initial comments make it clear enough that I take them pretty seriously). But if things are as dire for these friends as you make them out to be, why don't they consider career changes? While a degree in a specific discipline can be a prerequisite in some fields, others require only that the applicant have some sort of college degree. And even without one, there are still some jobs out there that pay more than $35k/year. I know it sucks not getting to work in your chosen field; but I'd have to think that it sucks even more to not be able to make ends meet.
I've been lucky in that I've been able to get some sort of use out of my specific educational backgrounds (though, in some cases, only by way of second or third side-jobs); but I've also held jobs where it only mattered that I had some sort of formal education. And in my dotcom days, many (if not most) of us had educational backgrounds that had little, ostensibly, to do with our then-current jobs. Our employers wanted us to be college-educated, but were less concerned with the specifics of our degrees than with our demonstrated abilities to do our jobs. But even when times have been good, I've tried to always wear more than just one hat, in hopes that it would better position me to deal with potential setbacks.
Anyhow, I wish the best of luck to your friends and to others in similar (or worse) situations. I've faced rough financial periods and understand fully that I sometimes might, once again. I just think that when times get tough, you have to be prepared to make some hard choices. And if that includes taking a job that it outside your chosen field, considering jobs that you might previously have considered undesirable, or working more than just one job, then so be it.
I didn't go to a top20, or even a top50 program and I work for the 7th largest bank in the world doing front-office securitization origination/investment. The degree is the door, whether you walk through it and bust your ass doing it is your own decision.
I have several friends with Ph.Ds and they are doing just fine, all graduated in the last 5 years.
Wow, I do google searches for "Elvis is not dead" and "ufo abducted me" and return a number of results. Big fricking deal.
And in your estimation, it would be preferable to rely on parents for financial support and/or to allow yourself to sink deeper and deeper into debt? Or did you recently watch 'Fun with Dick and Jane' and decide that that's the way to go?
The poster I replied to described friends who were unable to make ends meet. I offered a few possible solutions that one might need to consider when faced with such a challenge. If you have some better suggestions, then by all means, share them.
I have a fulltime job and a few side gigs that I do to supplement our household income and to keep my other areas of expertise and experience up to date. I'd be happy to quit them all and become a gentleman of leisure if should happen to have a small fortune you're looking to unload. But in the meantime, I do what I have to do to support my family.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
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The problem with a sociology degree is that it is a degree, which is mandatory to get in some doors, but otherwise is worth as much as my used toilet paper. It gives the person the two letters after their name but absolutely, unequivocally nothing that applies to any job (unless they have one of a few in that field). Contrast with engineering or even math or business, those are fields that get a person work. My degree is in psychology which is another toilet degree but I went on immediately after to a vocational school to get real skills. Combined--the actual skills with the "must have" degree (and many employers don't care what it is in) has worked out well and I'm doing just fine. People readily admit before getting their toilet paper degree it won't get them work, but they generally look for it anyway and end up living at home when they're 28 making $13/hour. It's simply pathetic.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
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Out of curiosity, what was your path from business school to that job? How were you able to get that job? Not trying to argue, just wondering how hard it was for you to obtain that position. Did you have to pull off a stellar interview?
I spent 3 years at a top issuer, my boss loved me and I did stellar work for them, which earned me a good rep among bankers I worked with. During that time I passed all 3 levels of the CFA exam on the first try. I then moved to a position with a top credit card securitization issuer, but I absolutely hated the job. I stayed for a year and then used my contacts to gets this job, which I have had for a year. I really like the job and I have received great reviews, which has further enhanced my rep in the industry, I'll probably stay here another 2 years then move onto another bank, perhaps I will stay here longer, who knows in this market.
I have interviewed at numerous places. There's only been one place I interviewed that didn't result in a job offer since I got my 1st securitization job, despite them liking me quite a bit and I even work with them now at my bank. They had a better candidate with more experience, great for them. He's a lucky guy too since it's one of the best hedge funds in town.
I work next to guys who went to duke, columbia, cornell, yale, harvard. I also work next to guys who have no MBA or undergrads from non-top10 schools.
Sure, there are direct slot-ins from top tier schools, but there are so many back doors for hard working people that you find that ivys make up the minority of positions here, even among executives.
When crunch time comes, a harvard graudate who puts in 50 hours and a Big10 graduate who puts in 90 hours will mean that the Big10 grad gets the bigger recognition.
Originally posted by: senseamp
Cool, so having gone to an Ivy is saving me 40 hours a week of work? Awesome
lol, exactly!
The science myth is absolutely true. When I was in high school, all I heard was "go be a scientist and you'll be set." I don't know why this myth continues. Scientists fare no better than sociologists and psychologists in many cases. Our field is filled with low paying, long hour, no power jobs. The best way to actually get one of these crappy jobs is through one of the many temp agencies that infest the industry.
My college adviser claimed to have a 100% placement rate for my field (Microbiology). What she didn't say is that the graduates typically go to another field, take a crap paying job, or go to grad school. I can't think of one person I graduated with that got a good paying Micro job. Many went on to get a Masters, which doesn't really help as so many end up doing this. If you look at job openings, you'll see that most Micro companies are looking for people with 4 or 5 years experience or 2 or 3 years experience and a Masters. Tells you how worthless that degree can be, but at least it puts your loans into deferment. My single Micro-related offer following graduation was mid-20s and I had a 3.7 GPA in my program. Luckily, I had some IT experience and earned twice as much in entry level IT. I managed to get out and completely redefine my education to the point where my Masters is in InfAs and I've been offered a full ride to TAMU for an MSIA.
Science in this country is a joke. A PhD in science only guarantees that you'll have staggering amounts of debt and a low paying job. You can try to go to a think tank or investment and consulting firms, and that's basically your best shot. Yet, all we hear about is that science and technology education in the US is so pathetic. Who cares? Students have no real motive to enter a field that won't net them anything. It's obvious that this country prizes the financial industry far more than it appreciates scientific endeavors. Then we wonder why our colleges produce business majors by the truckload instead of scientists. It's where the money is at.
Even as bad as I feel I had it, it doesn't compare to the sociologists, psychologists, and political science majors I knew. At least I had to take some math and quantitative classes. I know a PolS major that now works retail in the mall, good GPA too.
My college adviser claimed to have a 100% placement rate for my field (Microbiology). What she didn't say is that the graduates typically go to another field, take a crap paying job, or go to grad school. I can't think of one person I graduated with that got a good paying Micro job. Many went on to get a Masters, which doesn't really help as so many end up doing this. If you look at job openings, you'll see that most Micro companies are looking for people with 4 or 5 years experience or 2 or 3 years experience and a Masters. Tells you how worthless that degree can be, but at least it puts your loans into deferment. My single Micro-related offer following graduation was mid-20s and I had a 3.7 GPA in my program. Luckily, I had some IT experience and earned twice as much in entry level IT. I managed to get out and completely redefine my education to the point where my Masters is in InfAs and I've been offered a full ride to TAMU for an MSIA.
Science in this country is a joke. A PhD in science only guarantees that you'll have staggering amounts of debt and a low paying job. You can try to go to a think tank or investment and consulting firms, and that's basically your best shot. Yet, all we hear about is that science and technology education in the US is so pathetic. Who cares? Students have no real motive to enter a field that won't net them anything. It's obvious that this country prizes the financial industry far more than it appreciates scientific endeavors. Then we wonder why our colleges produce business majors by the truckload instead of scientists. It's where the money is at.
Even as bad as I feel I had it, it doesn't compare to the sociologists, psychologists, and political science majors I knew. At least I had to take some math and quantitative classes. I know a PolS major that now works retail in the mall, good GPA too.
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I do. I have a username of jizzstorm in another forum and it's also from Celtic myth.Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Sure it is... We believe you!
Okay, I rofled. What's next, BukkakeTyphoon?
:laugh:
Almost worth it to make an account with that name
I agree on this, it seems IT is going strong and no has no sign of cutting jobs right now. I just took a job offer which offered an 10k increase in pay + bonus + relocation package. On top of that, I had two other offers to choose from. To give you an idea, I have about seven years of IT experience with a BS in Information Technology (no certifications either).
I feel bad though for my friend who's going to law school right now and can't even find an internship. He has 100k in loans and it's not looking that hot.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
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I started in IT in 2000 just before the IT bubble burst and I soon I regretted this decision, but after a six month stint of unemployment and a change of country managed to find work way back when. Since then the market recovered and got strong. My company is actually having a hard time finding somebody with a similar skillset to mine (and it's not a terribly uncommon one), since we need another and if I had to find a job tomorrow I'm pretty sure I could in no time. IT has had an amazing turnaround, it seems. I don't know of people in IT who've been out of work for a while in recent memory. My field is software. I don't know how hardware is, but I presume a stronger future in software. The field also allows branching out. Most of us work in business, so even those with no business background are likely to find substantial exposure, so in my case I not only code but manage projects and have real skills applicable in other fields.
Outsourcing is some concern but nobody could do what I'm doing now without being in the building and certainly no fresh college grad could do it without some real experience.
Outsourcing is some concern but nobody could do what I'm doing now without being in the building and certainly no fresh college grad could do it without some real experience.
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