CNN already whipping out the ole' FactChecker

[JulesMaximus]

They should use the fleetwood mac song as the theme for the convention....

:whiste: tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies

Because the republican convention is so full of... um, truth, right? :sneaky:

 

[jackstar7]

"I like being able to fire people." - Romney
"Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy." - Biden
"You didn't build that." - Obama

You can twist anything you want into a lie. Context is everything.

You presented a context in your first post. What you said in that context was a lie.

I twisted nothing. I read your words.

I'm sorry you feel like I'm being a dick by calling out what you said as false. It's great that you narrowed the context to twist your statement into something closer to true. But you leave your original post and its lie sitting there.

Rather than clarifying in further posts, why not edit that first one to express your point the way you meant it in the first place? Heck, why not be more honest and expand the context to show where concessions to Republican ideas took place and when they didn't?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You presented a context in your first post. What you said in that context was a lie.

I twisted nothing. I read your words.

I'm sorry you feel like I'm being a dick by calling out what you said as false. It's great that you narrowed the context to twist your statement into something closer to true. But you leave your original post and its lie sitting there.

Rather than clarifying in further posts, why not edit that first one to express your point the way you meant it in the first place? Heck, why not be more honest and expand the context to show where concessions to Republican ideas took place and when they didn't?

I'm curious...just what were all these concessions that Democratics compromised on with Republicans?

 

[jackstar7]

Wait... so now you're not even aware of what was going on?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Wait... so now you're not even aware of what was going on?

Please answer the question.

 

[werepossum]

I'm not ignoring your context. Your statement is still a lie. There was exhaustive compromise in the crafting of the healthcare reform.

You re-framed your statement to try and make it a true statement, but the original statement remains false.

Your stubbornness isn't virtuous.

There was almost no compromise with Republicans in the crafting of Obamacare. ONE amendment, Vitter's healthy hooters clause, was included. No other Republican proposed amendments could even get a vote. Obamacare was crafted behind closed doors and forced down Republicans' throats because Democrats had an unstoppable majority and they preferred arm-twisting and blatantly bribing Democrats to engaging Republicans.

 

[blankslate]

Oh right, without Bush there wouldn't be any deficits.

Come on brah. Look at the chart and read what I said the

tax cuts which helped to crater the economy.

Where are the words President Bush's tax cuts cratered the economy on their very own and that's the only thing that did it.

Oh wait. I didn't say that they caused the recession all by themselves.

Yes, as anyone can see that there would still be problems but it's pretty fucking obvious that the Bush tax cuts are a sizable portion of those problems.

 

[blankslate]

I'm curious...just what were all these concessions that Democratics compromised on with Republicans?

Just off of the top of my head.

One of the very first ones was making a not small (about 30%) portion of the 2009 stimulus tax cuts.

Another early one was removing the Public Option from the health care conversation.

President Obama was willing to put medicare and Social security on the table. Nothing happened here because even though it seemed that John Boehner was willing to make a deal on that Eric Cantor and his faction balked at it.

He extended the Bush tax cuts for two years to get about another year of unemployment insurance coverage for people who were about to run out.

 

[Throckmorton]

There was almost no compromise with Republicans in the crafting of Obamacare. ONE amendment, Vitter's healthy hooters clause, was included. No other Republican proposed amendments could even get a vote. Obamacare was crafted behind closed doors and forced down Republicans' throats because Democrats had an unstoppable majority and they preferred arm-twisting and blatantly bribing Democrats to engaging Republicans.

LOL. Only 6 Republicans wanted anything to do with "Obamacare" and then none of them voted for it. The mandate is a Republican idea. Not having a public option was a Republican idea. Excluding abortions is a Republican idea.

 

[jackstar7]

Please answer the question.

The question has been answered.

Now what?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Just off of the top of my head.

One of the very first ones was making a not small (about 30%) portion of the 2009 stimulus tax cuts.

the second was removing the public option from the health care conversation.

President Obama was willing to put medicare and Social security on the table. Nothing happened here because even though it seemed that John Boehner was willing to make a deal on that Eric Cantor and his faction balked at it.

He extended the Bush tax cuts for two years to get about another year of unemployment insurance coverage for people who were about to run out.

I was talking about concessions specifically regarding Obamacare...you're convoluting many things.

BTW, the public option wasn't a concession to Republicans, it was a concession to Democrats and Lieberman to get the necessary votes to pass the bill. Therefore, your assertion that this was a compromise with Republicans is a lie.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The question has been answered.

Now what?

I specifically asked you to answer the question. Third request.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

LOL. Only 6 Republicans wanted anything to do with "Obamacare" and then none of them voted for it. The mandate is a Republican idea. Not having a public option was a Republican idea. Excluding abortions is a Republican idea.

I was unaware that Republicans were pushing for the mandate at any time while Obamacare was being drafted. Please link.

 

[jackstar7]

I specifically asked you to answer the question. Second request.

Why does it matter if I answer? How about if the President does?

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/84467-obama-outlines-concessions-to-republicans

 

[boomerang]

http://factcheck.org/2012/09/democratic-disinformation-from-charlotte/

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Why does it matter if I answer? How about if the President does?

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/84467-obama-outlines-concessions-to-republicans

You previously stated that there were Democratic concessions to Republicans. I asked you a very specific question which you have totally failed to answer ""What specific concessions did Democratics make in compromising with Republicans regarding Obamacare?" Fourth Request.

 

[jackstar7]

I just presented a list to you.

 

[werepossum]

LOL. Only 6 Republicans wanted anything to do with "Obamacare" and then none of them voted for it. The mandate is a Republican idea. Not having a public option was a Republican idea. Excluding abortions is a Republican idea.

The mandate is an item supported by SOME Republicans as an alternative to the truly draconian Hillarycare; it is not a Republican idea, nor was it supported by any Republicans at the time. The mandate was included because otherwise, Obamacare doesn't work. Not having a public option and not supporting abortion were to gain the necessary votes of more conservative Democrats, not Republicans.

 

[blankslate]

BTW, the public option wasn't a concession to Republicans, it was a concession to Democrats and Lieberman to get the necessary votes to pass the bill. Therefore, your assertion that this was a compromise with Republicans is a lie.

Please. Don't pretend that if the Public Option wasn't objected to by Sen. Lieberman that the Republicans would've just went along with it.

Considering that Senator McCain was endorsed by Senator Lieberman for President some can say that in a lot of ways he's a D.I.N.O.

His objection to the Public Option was pretty much what Republicans would have done and if President Obama didn't drop it for Senator Lieberman he damn well would have had to drop it later.

As someone Thock said abortions are not covered by the ACA definitely a concession to republicans.

 

[blankslate]

The mandate is an item supported by SOME Republicans as an alternative to the truly draconian Hillarycare; it is not a Republican idea, nor was it supported by any Republicans at the time.

IIRC it came out of a think tank, the Heritage Foundation (which afaik is pretty conservative.)

Governor Romney also used it in his plan for Massachusetts so.

These two items support Throckmorton's idea that it is a conservative idea, at least as far as the health care debate went.

Governor Romney is considered by some to be a R.I.N.O. I think.
So I suppose you can argue that it's not Republican if you hold the view that Mitt Romney is this guy.

 

[FerrelGeek]

And this is why the economy did not just fuck up the day Bush took office from Clinton. It took him some time to ruin us. These people are getting so desperate it is palpable...

A little history lesson, oh liberal shill. Bush actually inherited a mild recession from the end of the Clinton admin. Do you remember the .com bubble bursting? Nah, doubt you would as you can't blame reps for it.

And btw, I'm not blaming Clinton for it either.

 

[diesbudt]

A little history lesson, oh liberal shill. Bush actually inherited a mild recession from the end of the Clinton admin. Do you remember the .com bubble bursting? Nah, doubt you would as you can't blame reps for it.

And btw, I'm not blaming Clinton for it either.

I blame Jefferson.

 

[blankslate]

The guy with the middle name Jefferson or the guy with the last name Jefferson?

Doesn't matter. It was a mild recession that had to happen because everyone jumped on the internet band wagon. At least we can be thankful that it was relatively short...

And we did get some strong internet based companies out of it. Not to mention the fact that many traditional companies utilize the internet to an advantage as well.

 

[diesbudt]

The guy with the middle name Jefferson or the guy with the last name Jefferson?

Doesn't matter. It was a mild recession that had to happen because everyone jumped on the internet band wagon. At least we can be thankful that it was relatively short...

And we did get some strong internet based companies out of it. Not to mention the fact that many traditional companies utilize the internet to an advantage as well.

Last name. THE president Jefferson. Those old guys did some voodoo I bet to cause all these issues.

 

[FerrelGeek]

LOL. Only 6 Republicans wanted anything to do with "Obamacare" and then none of them voted for it. The mandate is a Republican idea. Not having a public option was a Republican idea. Excluding abortions is a Republican idea.

Bribing key congressdrods with exemptions from the botched abortion of a bill to get them to foist it on everyone else was a dem idea.