Cloning software

[rh71]

I have set up a clean WIN10 pc recently and I want to copy it to a separate local drive (has other data) as a file so I can restore it in the future. I used to use Redo Backup that created a large file just like I prefer, but that is no longer working (booting from CD or USB stick freezes).

So I tried Acronis True Image and it produced a .tib file for the image which appears to require Windows & Acronis installed. I would like to know if that is equally as viable a way to recover my clean install should I ever need it. Or if I actually am better off with what I had with Redo (entire wipe of C and re-apply image)?

I also tried Clonezilla and it looked like it wanted to overwrite my destination partition (an actual immediate clone). Is there another good option out there that can do what I want?

 

[Fardringle]

Norton Ghost works well for this. It will create a single large image file wherever you want to store it, and has the option to boot from a recovery disk (USB or CD) to restore the entire image back to your C: drive.

 

[rh71]

^ I used to use Ghost also, but:
Symantec does not have a Windows 8 & Windows 10 compatible version of Norton Ghost. Attempting to install or use Norton Ghost on Windows 8 & Windows 10 may result in unexpected results, such as incomplete imaging, Licensing issues.

 

[Fardringle]

I don't run it from inside the OS. I run it from a boot disk and haven't had any issues making and restoring images of Windows 10. If you don't want to do that, EaseUS Todo Backup has similar functionality and it will run in Windows 10.

 

[Paperdoc]

This may be another way to do it. This is NOT a single file on an existing "disk". Instead, this is how I make a bootable "disk" as a backup.

First, you have a HDD with space on it, but also containing other files already. To make my process work, you would have to use Disk Management (or Acronis, or something similar) to SHRINK the existing Partition on that HDD to a size small enough to create a chunk of empty space that is Unallocated Space. That leaves all your existing data in the (smaller) Partition on that HDD. The aim is to create enough Unallocated Space that you can create in it a second Partition that will hold a clone copy of your current C: drive. That space does NOT have to be the entire size of your C: drive. It does need to be a little bit bigger that the actual size of the USED space in the C: drive. For example, if the C: drive is now 500 GB but it only contains 325 GB of stuff with 175 GB Free Space, then you need a chunk of Unallocated Space about 330 to 350 GB.

So, IF you can do that, then use a cloning utility - I have used Acronios True Image for this - to make a clone copy of your C: drive. In doing that, you need to tell it to create the Partition that will receive the copy in the Unallocated Space you freed up on your spare HDD, making it the size you want and NOT just the exact same size as the current C: drive. Ensure that this new Partition is designated as a BOOTABLE partition. Then let it make the clone, and back out of the cloning utility. Now the second HDD will have two Partitions on it. One will be your original Partition, smaller than it was before, but containing all your old data. The other will be a new bootable Partition that is a complete clone of your C: drive. Each of these Partitions will be treated by Windows as a separate "drive" with its own letter name and completely accessible under Windows.

The important part here is that the new "drive" (Partition, really) on that second HDD is also directly accessible to your BIOS at boot time. To prove this to yourself, shut down the system and disconnect your normal C: drive. Now power up and go immediately into BIOS Setup. In there, change the Boot Priority settings so that it will boot from that second HDD (now may be the only HDD in your system), then SAVE and Exit. The system should reboot, find the bootable Partition on that HDD, and boot from it. That Partition now will be called your C: drive by Windows (because Windows always labels the drive it booted from as C. You also should see your original Partition containing data as another "drive", but of course your original C: drive will not appear because you have disconnected it.

Once you have succeeded in this process and proven that it works, shut down again. Re-connect your real original C: drive, then use BIOS Setup to restore the proper boot priority sequence and boot from it. If you ever lose the C: drive, you can connect things as was done in the test above and you have a bootable spare C: drive to work from until you can replace the old original C: unit.

At any time in future you can use Acronis to go back to that second HDD with the two Partitions on it and Delete the one containing your C: clone. Then you can re-do the process of making a new clone copy to a new bootable Partition created from that Unallocated Space, thus updating your backup clone.

 

[bruceb]

Norton Ghost makes it as bunch of .gho files .. or at least that is how it was with Ghost 2003 version. And I agree, run it from DOS or from a Ghost Boot CD / Floppy .. Never make an image from within Windows .. Better results from DOS ..

Fardringle --- What version of Ghost are you using with Windows 10 ? ? .. Have you tested restoring a backup made with it to be sure it does work ? ? My Toshiba Laptop has Windows 10 Home 64 Bit .. When I buy a new computer, it will probably have the same version. Thanks

 

[corkyg]

Right on about not cloning from Windows. First of all, Windows always exits to command prompt screen to do cloning. Second of all, why not go there in the first place and enjoy a Linux based GUI that tells you a lot more than the Windows CP screen.

If the imaging is from backup software, it produces a file that requires restoration. Cloning produces a duplicate drive, and no restoration is required. It is immediately interchangeable with the source drive.

My PC has two OS drives, Win 7 and 10. Each of those has a clone, and I rotate them every week to keep them current. If one succumbs due to failure, virus, ransomeware, etc., I simply change drives and reclone the contaminated drive from the good duplicate. I do this also on my laptop which is all SSD. I have SSDs for 7 and 10, and they are easily changed.

 

[UMassMike]

Another vote for EaseUS ToDo Backup Free. You can make a Windows PE disk on a USB (the process is built into the program, you just supply the USB disk) and boot from outside the OS and then image to another external hard drive or another drive.

The link for that process, if you're interested: http://www.todo-backup.com/products/features/free-backup-software-winpe.htm

 

[sm625]

So I tried Acronis True Image and it produced a .tib file for the image which appears to require Windows & Acronis installed.

.tib files do NOT require windows. All they need is a bootable acronis usb stick (or CD), which is the same thing every backup/restore tool requires.

 

[Vonchor]

Norton Ghost makes it as bunch of .gho files .. or at least that is how it was with Ghost 2003 version. And I agree, run it from DOS or from a Ghost Boot CD / Floppy .. Never make an image from within Windows .. Better results from DOS ..

Fardringle --- What version of Ghost are you using with Windows 10 ? ? .. Have you tested restoring a backup made with it to be sure it does work ? ? My Toshiba Laptop has Windows 10 Home 64 Bit .. When I buy a new computer, it will probably have the same version. Thanks

Ghost11 works on windows Vista up to and including win10. x32 or x64 makes no difference as Ghost runs under DOS. Be careful, Ghost creates a true clone of the partition or disk (you select which), with the same Globally Unique Identifier, (GUI). Booting windows up with a cloned image having the same Partician GUI visible to Windows causes Windows to change your boot GUI making your boot patrician un-bootable. This is to prevent improper Cloning which makes multiple functional copies with only one software license. Microsoft understandably does not like this. I don't blame them. Keep the backup clone offline when ever windows is operational. This applies to Windows 7 and above.

 

[bruceb]

Yes, that makes sense. Only need to clone when moving to a new drive. Otherwise it is just make a Ghost Image that gets restored in the event it is needed. I will try to find Ghost 11 somewhere.

 

[deustroop]

Ghost11 works on windows Vista up to and including win10. x32 or x64 makes no difference as Ghost runs under DOS. Be careful, Ghost creates a true clone of the partition or disk (you select which), with the same Globally Unique Identifier, (GUI). Booting windows up with a cloned image having the same Partician GUI visible to Windows causes Windows to change your boot GUI making your boot patrician un-bootable. This is to prevent improper Cloning which makes multiple functional copies with only one software license. Microsoft understandably does not like this. I don't blame them. Keep the backup clone offline when ever windows is operational. This applies to Windows 7 and above.

A clone available to system it cloned is a more efficient operation. It's been pointed out several times that this issue, which also arises using Samsung's data migration software, is completely avoided by Macrium, licences or no. Clones are not just replacements but backups too. I have several in this machine . Based on the above, corkyg may do the same.That makes it very easy to correct mistakes, simply reboot another drive and clone the problem drive.A lot easier than running DOS and replacing an image .Mucho.

 

[bruceb]

Cloning is best used when you are moving an OS and Installed Programs from one hard drive, say a 120GB one to a new drive say 250GB ... What you do is clone from the old drive to the new one. Power down the computer, remove the old drive, set the new one to Master and it should boot up fine. As to Ghost 11 only drawback is that it can not see GPT formatted drives. Otherwise it should be fine.

 

[deustroop]

What is a Master ? And aren't most windows 10 drives GPT ?
The OP might consider another way. Get Macrium--I heard there is a free version of Reflect. Copy the data on the target drive he wants to keep to his main drive , install Macrium, and clone the C to the target. Then he has two bootable drives and storage to spare. This is new but its better.

 

[corkyg]

...And aren't most windows 10 drives GPT ?

Well, none of mine are. (2 desktop and 2 laptop.) No reason to since I don't use drives > 500GB.

 

[bruceb]

When you have more than one hard drive in a computer, the Boot Drive is setup as the Master. All the others are considered Slaves ... As to GPT, it is only needed for hard drives larger than 4GB in capacity. Anything smaller can still use NTFS as long as you do not enable Secure Boot (which I do not like anyway) .. 500GB to 1GB is more than enough for the OS and Installed Programs .. It also makes creating and restoring a backup much easier, as they will be smaller in size and quicker to do.

 

[deustroop]

Its way OT but I don't think a master/slave arrangement has been sold in a while. You must be thinking of IDE when you say
Power down the computer, remove the old drive, set the new one to Master.
Reminds me of the bad old days, for sure.
Today we no need go to that trouble. There are boot menus to select initialized and bootable drives, not slaves .If one needs to take a drive offline, there is a bios/uefi switch for that.

 

[bruceb]

Yes, it was IDE ... I do not have SATA drives at present and they may not need or have that function. But with SATA if you clone to a new drive, it should be connected to the Same SATA Port as the original System Boot Drive was connected to.

 

[deustroop]

Yes, it was IDE ... I do not have SATA drives at present and they may not need or have that function. But with SATA if you clone to a new drive, it should be connected to the Same SATA Port as the original System Boot Drive was connected to.

Negatory seignory.
That's perhaps a myth or an outdated concern. It used to be said that one could not have two initialized and active drives operational simultaneously,e.g., in an IDE system, but I have never had a problem in that regard. Now I have three SSDs, two SATA and an NVME. I clone them around as needed never minding the original port. And after the update to 1607 I needed two clones/back ups on hand.
What I describe works and is great.
Macrium should work on IDE, to clone master to slave (are those terms PC ?) and leave both operational. Why not give it a go and let us know ?

 

[bruceb]

Yes it probably would work. But for now, I do not need to do that. Was mainly interested in what works best to use for image backups on Windows 10 .. My old Dell 8200 with XP PRO use Norton Ghost 2003 to make the backup image to a seperate internal hard drive. A copy of the image is on my external hard drive (USB) but Ghost 2003 can not directly see the USB External Drive. (later versions might be able to)

 

[Paperdoc]

Just a note on terminology. "Master" and "Slave" are terms for the roles of two devices connected to the SAME IDE (PATA) mobo port. It is necessary to distinguish them because such a port can support up to two devices sharing the port and data cable. SATA drive control systems, however, support only one device on each port, and thus there is no need to make a distinction.

From a whole-machine perspective, there is NO "Master" drive. There IS, however, a BOOT DEVICE (could be a drive or another item) that you have booted from and that contains an Operating System. If you boot into Windows, that device automatically will be Drive C:. All other storage devices are simply that - other storage devices.

The confusion comes from long ago. In earlier days well before SATA there was no choice - the Master device on the first IDE port was always the boot device, so a habit developed of calling the boot device the "Master Drive". Later the option was introduced to allow the user to specify in BIOS Setup which device in the system was the boot device - even, a priority list of several possible boot devices. Thus the BOOT DEVICE is no longer only the Master of the first IDE port, and the machine does NOT have any "Master Drive".

 

[deustroop]

To bruceb's point, that a clone should be connected to the port to which the original drive connects, it echoes a time long ago and far away where drives ( IDE in those days ) would not boot in machines other than the one that formatted them. Odd, yes but it happened to me . I could only boot several, if I recall correctly, drives in the systems that formatted them. Quite cute I thought, to see such warm and fuzzy-like behaviour between machine elements.

 

[adlep]

I've had a good luck with Acronis HD either 2014 or 2015. It is an OEM version of Acronis with some of the extra features cut off. It came bundled with Crucial SSD drive and I've been using it for the past few months with good results. Once you install this software you can make a Linux based boot CD that will read and restore from .tib images stored on external hard drives. Acronis HD 2014/15 boot disks are also EXCELLENT at disk cloning.