Cloning NVME to SSD in Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

[JackBN]

I built a new system with Asus Z370-E, i7-8770k and Crucial 2666 DDR4, no video card.
The primary drive is a Samsung 960 Pro NVME in an Aquacomputer Kryo M.2 Evo PCIe 3.0 x 4 adapter.
This system works well, BUT:

I have tried three programs to clone the 960 to an SSD:
AOMEI -- will not clone
EaseUS Todo -- clones, but will not boot on SSD clone
Samsung Migration SW -- clones to a Samsung SSD but will not boot on clone.

I have tried Intel and Samsung SSDs as the target for the clone.

My backup method (in WIndows 7 and earlier versions) is cloning to a separate drive, booting
on the clone to verify it works, then returning to using the original primary drive

What procedure/software is necessary to clone the Samsung 960 NVME to a SSD that can boot?

 

[deustroop]

(I will assume that the adapter is not the issue and leave that bit of research to you.)
I don't use any of those SW programs regularly. I did use the Samsung SW once but found its limitation, that the clone was too identical to the original. The clone is given the exact disk ID of the original and the conflict that arises within windows prevents one from having both disks logged into the system at the same time.Either/or but not both unless you do further work to provide a separate ID to one of the drives..So you may indeed have a cloned and bootable drive using the Samsung SW if you only install one at a time.
I never use that SW now because I have the same backup plan as you describe. I have the C: drive and two clones in this system, all of them are system disks. I use Macrium Reflect which has a free version.There is an FAQ on its cloning operation here. The SW allows for adjustment of partition size if cloning a smaller drive to a larger one.
http://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW/Cloning+a+disk

If you are not inclined to attempt another learning curve with Macrium, then give the details of the errors each SW presents.

 

[JackBN]

I did not remove the NVME before trying in BIOS to boot from the clone of EaseUS or Samsung Migration.
I don't think it's healthy for the PCIe slot to use it several times per month.

I guess I should try removing the Samsung 960, to see if the clone will indeed work,
but if that is the only solution, I would prefer to stay with SSDs, and my large investment is a 1TB Sammy 960 was a poor idea.

 

[deustroop]

You missed the good part of my suggestion.

I mentioned that if the issue is that your system will not boot with both the NVMe and the clone installed at the same time, then you should use Macrium Reflect (free) to clone the NVMe. Macrium will clone the NVMe drive and allow it to remain in the computer when you boot from the clone. Therefore I advise that you remove the NVMe and boot from the clone. If that works, put the NVMe back in along with the target SSD, clone the NVMe to the SSD using Macrium Reflect and then boot from the clone.

Let us know how that goes or what the error messages are, if any, that arise from using the cloning software you have tried.You are not authorized to throw in the towel at this time.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You missed the good part of my suggestion.

I mentioned that if the issue is that your system will not boot with both the NVMe and the clone installed at the same time, then you should use Macrium Reflect (free) to clone the NVMe. Macrium will clone the NVMe drive and allow it to remain in the computer when you boot from the clone. Therefore I advise that you remove the NVMe and boot from the clone. If that works, put the NVMe back in along with the target SSD, clone the NVMe to the SSD using Macrium Reflect and then boot from the clone.

Let us know how that goes or what the error messages are, if any, that arise from using the cloning software you have tried.You are not authorized to throw in the towel at this time.

I went through a month or so of extraordinary attention and trouble building my signature Skylake. I had to clone a dual-boot OS disk to NVME and even assumed there wouldn't be a problem cloning it back to SATA SSD. But even if there were such a problem, Macrium Free (or licensed) offers a resolution to it.

First of all, if you think you need a bona-fide "clone" to back up your OS-system-boot disk, you may be mistaken. Once Macrium is installed, you can image your entire system to a single physical backup disk, and later restore all or part to new or re-initialized disks.

Second, if you have problems such as those described, the bootable-CD of your Macrium installation should allow you to fix a boot problem. And -- anyway -- you may need the bootable CD to do the restoration of the drive image. Howsoever that may be, having the bootable CD can turn out to be a life-saver for several reasons.

 

[JackBN]

jforce: thanks for the followup.

My new Win 10 computer and my old Win 7 computer are in different locations, so things take time.
Today I removed the NVME. Without the NVME, the Samsung 850 (cloned with Samsung Migration) works as the boot drive. The Intel 480GB (cloned with EaseUS Todo) would not boot.
Then I cloned the the Samsung 850 to the Intel with EaseUS Todo, and now the Intel boots as the only drive.

My understanding of your suggestion is to:
1) Use Macrium Reflect free to clone the NVME to a SATA SSD
2) Boot from the SATA clone with the NVME in place
3) Boot from the SATA clone with the NVME removed
4) Repeat step 1, which I don't understand
I will get Macrium Reflect and try to make things work.

BonzaiDuck: thanks, but I do not trust images. I have been burned in the past by an image which failed when I needed it.
I want a full clone to test before putting it aside, outside the computer.

 

[deustroop]

Ok
I suggest taking steps 1) and 2) for each SSD.

The clones will become system disks and should boot with (and without) the original (NVMe) drive installed.The system should support the three disks installed simultaneously and boot from each just by rearranging the boot priority menu in bios.

 

[JackBN]

Thanks guys. I have good news and other news.
First, Macrium Reflect works, sorta. I can do what I need, but it's a hassle.
I want to clone my 1TB NVME (which currently has two "real" paritions and about 50GB on it because it is not fully loaded with software and data) to a 480 GB SSD.
Macrium Reflect refuses, unless I clone only the first "real" NVME partition (plus the small Windows 10 partitions). This makes one partition on the 480 SSD
THEN, I must go into Disk Management, shrink the 480 SSD paritition in half and finally copy the second NVME partition data to the second 480 partition in File Explorer.

I want a large primary drive for speed and durability.
My clones have commonly been half as large for cost reasons. My actual saved EVERYTHING these days is 300 - 350GB.
Several other cloning programs have no problem cloning to a smaller drive, if space is sufficient. But they have NVME/SSD compatibility issues.

I will try using a 1TB SSD as a target; that seems wasteful, but I also value my time and sanity.

 

[JackBN]

Macrium Reflect is happy cloning the Samsung 1TB 960 NVME to a 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SSD.
Zero problems.
I guess that's what I will do henceforth.
I suspect another brand will work ONLY if it is the same size or larger.

 

[deustroop]

MR will normally allow you to resize the first partition but I wonder what you mean by a real partition ? Lets say you have two primary partitions and several smaller ones in the 1TB drive. Lets say the largest is what you call the first real one and it sits at 500GB , the second largest is ~480GB and the rest of the space are the normal windows ones like "Recovery" at 450Mb etc. You select the disk to clone(1TB) then the target disk of 480GB. Then "copy selected partitions" ( those with check marks). The next graphic should show both the large partitions, if they were selected , fit into the space left after the windows partitions . Lets say for some reason only the first real partition is initially copied as shown by the graphic, then try the "cloned partition properties" dialogue.
The FAQ says of this function:
To modify the partition sizes, click Cloned Partition Properties and adjust the size of the partition by:

1. Setting the partition size precisely using the Partition Size entry box.
2. Resize the partition automatically by clicking Maximum size, Minimum size or Original size.

I assume you could make the first cloned size smaller and copy the remaining large partition over.
Or am I missing something ?

 

[razel]

Secure boot, UEFI boot and GPT has made fixing boot issues very difficult. I recently went back and forth twice between SATA SSD and NVMe. I had to be good with bcdedit, bootfix and bootrec since I was stubborn and wanted to maintain original. If I did it all over again, I would have secure boot off, changed to the old fashioned active partition/boot loader and turn secure boot back on next time I reinstall OS. I would have saved so much more time.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Macrium Reflect is happy cloning the Samsung 1TB 960 NVME to a 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SSD.
Zero problems.
I guess that's what I will do henceforth.
I suspect another brand will work ONLY if it is the same size or larger.

All I can say in answer to your earlier post is this. My Skylake system has been tip-top-rock-solid-perfect running for exactly a year. The hurdles involved getting the preferred NVME configuration, which also involved my beloved PrimoCache usage -- this latter proceeding in a mildly exploratory manner. For various reasons, I had to restore the three-volume (plus system stubs) NVME about three times before I "got it right" -- this being a dual-boot Win7/Win10 setup. Forward from last January to April, with the release of Creators Build #1703 -- took me about a week or so to straighten that out.

But the Macrium images saved my ass every time. And Macrium's backup function works like a charm, managing the drive space on the backup volume.

All of these difficulties have custom aspects depending on the hardware choices, hardware "plan," and configuration preferences. So I can only say I'm glad that Macrium worked out for you, at least to this point.

Secure boot, UEFI boot and GPT has made fixing boot issues very difficult. I recently went back and forth twice between SATA SSD and NVMe. I had to be good with bcdedit, bootfix and bootrec since I was stubborn and wanted to maintain original. If I did it all over again, I would have secure boot off, changed to the old fashioned active partition/boot loader and turn secure boot back on next time I reinstall OS. I would have saved so much more time.

In the progression of my work described above, I definitely chose to try more than just Macrium. Had a recent license for EaseUS Partition Master -- enabled me to convert MBR to GPT. Also purchased a license to Mini-Tool, and EasyBCD. I'm still forestalling installation of Win10 #1709, because #1703 installation would bork my dual-boot menu -- Macrium fixed that.