Cloning into a SSD has been a real PITA...

[sniperruff]

It's been a while since I've browsed Anandtech. This week I finally decided to splurge and got myself an OCZ Agility 4 128gb SSD. Yeah it has real bad reviews... but it was also REAL cheap.

My previous setup boots Windows 7 into C:, which is on a WD 2TB green (along with a storage partition).

I used Clonezilla and created a bootable USB. Cloned the C: partition onto the SSD. After cloning was finished, I changed in BIOS to boot the SSD ahead of the WD Green. I boot the computer with both WD Green and OCZ SSD attached.

Then I get an error message to either insert the Windows 7 disc and repair a drive error or ignore (which will crash and reboot computer). Repair with Windows 7 disc does not resolve problem.

So then I proceeded to unplug the WD Green and reboot with ONLY the OCZ SSD attached. I get error message that says an error is encountered, press crtl + alt + delete to restart. Restart will result in same error message.

I re-cloned the C: partition again with Clonezilla, and then with EaseUS Disk Copy into the SSD. I tried to boot either with both drives or with only the SSD attached. Same results. Of course, if I enable the WD Green to boot first in BIOS, then it'll boot into C: without problems.

I see all the partitions in Disk Management correctly. I then stumbled upon Easy BCD, which allows me to edit boot menu. I added a new entry for the cloned C: partition (labeled I: partition), and select that as "default".

I restarted the computer as instructed, with the following settings:
1. Both WD Green and OCZ attached
2. BIOS setting for WD Green to be first boot device

So Windows booted up, and now I can't tell whether I'm in the original C: partition or the cloned I: partition! Well my mobo is quite dated and has SATA I, so perhaps the difference between an SSD and a 5400rpm HD is somewhat muted by the bottleneck. I notice some minor speed increases, but that can be attributed to the disk cleanup done right before I cloned the WD Green.

So here are some clues:
1. The little blue shaded windows icon appear for I: drive (see ciricle)
2. Easy BCD summary shows I: as first, and says "BCD ID: Current"
Pic here: http://i.imgur.com/CcN3s.jpg

But then C: is always highlighted when I fire up disk management:
http://i.imgur.com/DwRYe.jpg

...and WEI remains unchanged after rerun.

So what the heck am I using now, the C: partition in WD Green or the I: partition in the SSD???

One problem now: the computer won't boot without the SSD (probably because I added I: in Easy BCD), nor without the WD Green (will say "press crtl + alt + delete to restart")

So what I want to do is:
1. Make I: the only boot partition
2. Make computer bootable with either WD Green or SSD ALONE.
3. Can I switch the I: and C: partitions around? I prefer to relabel the SSD partition as C: and the WD Green Partition as I:, which will contain clone of the SSD partition.

Sorry if I am a bit long-winded and thanks in advance!

 

[lakedude]

But then C: is always highlighted when I fire up disk management:

I believe "C:" is highlighted because it is on top.

If you look in management you will see it labels "I:" as "boot" and this seems to agree with the little blue shaded windows icon @ "I:" under "Computer" (where you have drawn a circle).

So it looks like you are booting from "I:" which is clearly on your SSD. EDIT-Whoops, I was wrong see next post about "system".

I had this same kind of trouble but a smart friend helped me out. Windows system restore/repair worked for me.

I think part of your issue has been that you booted with both drives in the system. You need to jerk your HD out and just focus on your SSD for now. Having both drives in adds extra confusion.

Just put in your SSD and run repair on it and see how that works.

Your HD has a weird section of unallocated space at the beginning that is the same size as "C:" and "I:". Not sure what that is all about...

 

[ViRGE]

If you look in management you will see it labels "I:" as "boot" and this seems to agree with the little blue shaded windows icon @ "I:" under "Computer" (where you have drawn a circle).

"Boot" is the partition with the bootloader. "System" is the partition with the OS you're currently using.

Anyhow, the op needs to pull the WD drive, boot off of the Windows 7 install disc, and run the following console commands:

BootRec.exe /fixmbr (lays down fresh MBR)
BootRec.exe /FixBoot (lays down fresh bootsector)
BootRec.exe /RebuildBcd (rebuilds the BCD)

If that doesn't work, delete the 100MB system partition and try those commands again.

 

[hhhd1]

Test the SSD. use a windows DVD, and install a fresh copy of windows, with the SSD only connected to the computer, try to see if it is functioning normally.

If it seems ok, leave the 100mb system partition as is, and just delete the windows partition and overwrite it with you original partition from the HD.

 

[sniperruff]

Windows system restore/repair worked for me.

Just put in your SSD and run repair on it and see how that works.

Your HD has a weird section of unallocated space at the beginning that is the same size as "C:" and "I:". Not sure what that is all about...

I think that is left over from a deleted Win 7 64-bit installation. Anyhow, if I boot with just the SSD, it'd prompt me to crtl + alt + delete to restart. It's strange that before I played with Easy BCD, it'd prompt me to "insert windows disc and repair".

"Boot" is the partition with the bootloader. "System" is the partition with the OS you're currently using.

Anyhow, the op needs to pull the WD drive, boot off of the Windows 7 install disc, and run the following console commands:

BootRec.exe /fixmbr (lays down fresh MBR)
BootRec.exe /FixBoot (lays down fresh bootsector)
BootRec.exe /RebuildBcd (rebuilds the BCD)

If that doesn't work, delete the 100MB system partition and try those commands again.

I'll try that in a bit. How do I pull up the command prompt after I insert the Win 7 disc?
*edit NVM I found some instructions:
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/682-command-prompt-startup.html

Test the SSD. use a windows DVD, and install a fresh copy of windows, with the SSD only connected to the computer, try to see if it is functioning normally.

If it seems ok, leave the 100mb system partition as is, and just delete the windows partition and overwrite it with you original partition from the HD.

I forgot to mention that bit - I installed a fresh copy of Win 7 with the SSD by itself without any trouble, before I formatted with one of the cloning programs.

 

[JackMDS]

Test the SSD. use a windows DVD, and install a fresh copy of windows, with the SSD only connected to the computer, try to see if it is functioning normally.

If it seems ok, leave the 100mb system partition as is, and just delete the windows partition and overwrite it with you original partition from the HD.

This should work and the process can be made even easier.

Install this freeware on the current working HD.

http://www.partitionwizard.com/free-partition-manager.html

Use Partition Wizard to first totally erase the SSD and then configure it as an empty Active primary.

Then install the Active Win partition form the large drive.



😎

 

[sniperruff]

BootRec.exe /fixmbr (lays down fresh MBR)
BootRec.exe /FixBoot (lays down fresh bootsector)
BootRec.exe /RebuildBcd (rebuilds the BCD)

If that doesn't work, delete the 100MB system partition and try those commands again.

Hmm just did both and didn't work. I left only the SSD plugged in and ran the 3 commands. Still gives me "crtl + alt + delete to restart". Then I deleted the 100mb partition, ran the 3 commands and same results. 🙁

This should work and the process can be made even easier.

Then install the Active Win partition form the large drive.

😎

Ha I am really tempted at this point, since it has wasted me much more time than reinstalling Windows again, but finding all those drivers will be a royal pain.

 

[nitrous9200]

I had no problems cloning from an HD to an SSD using Macrium Reflect (the free version, just google it). Win7 should have properly aligned partitions already, so you can just run the clone, then unplug the HD and boot from the SSD. I left both drives attached the first time I cloned and ended up with crazy drive letters and a very broken copy of Windows.

 

[ViRGE]

Hmm just did both and didn't work. I left only the SSD plugged in and ran the 3 commands. Still gives me "crtl + alt + delete to restart". Then I deleted the 100mb partition, ran the 3 commands and same results. 🙁

Well crud, that usually does the trick. Assuming all of the data copied over correctly, that should have completely recreated the bootchain from scratch. Which implies that there's something wrong with the boot manager.

At this point I second the vote to just do a fresh install.

 

[sniperruff]

Well crud, that usually does the trick. Assuming all of the data copied over correctly, that should have completely recreated the bootchain from scratch. Which implies that there's something wrong with the boot manager.

At this point I second the vote to just do a fresh install.

Heh thanks for the attempt anyway. It seems that something's wrong with my original partition should I will try and find an answer today. Otherwise a clean wipe + install is the only solution 🙁

***edit: Just thought of this:
I remembered I FUBAR'ed my windows installation way back when I install Win 7 64-bit then decided to switch to 32-bit due to a piece of legacy hardware (which is now no longer used!) - that explains the 97.66GB unallocated space ahead of C:

And in the process of messing everything up, I also deleted the 100mb System Reserve partition. Doh!

So fast forward to now -
Problem: System partition is on WD Green, and somehow bootrec fails to make the SSD partition as the System partition.
Solution:
1) Format SSD and create a 10GB partition.
2) Install new windows on 10GB partition. Windows will also create a 100mb System Reserve partition with the MBR.
3) Clone old Win 7 partition in a separate partition of the remaining space (say, 100GB) and mark as active and boot partition.
4) Delete 10GB partition of new Win 7 installation.

Do you guys think that makes sense?

Or... I also found this. I will probably try this first:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/119151-system-reserved-create-using-disk-management.html?ltr=S

 

[wirednuts]

i have had similar problems just trying to clone hdd-hdd.

usually cloning works, but when it doesnt i have spent hours and days trying to get the new drive to boot.

then i give up, pull out the old drive and do a clean install with the new drive. once booted, i install the old drive and copy over any files i wanted to keep. soooo much easier then cloning anyway.

 

[ViRGE]

So fast forward to now -
Problem: System partition is on WD Green, and somehow bootrec fails to make the SSD partition as the System partition.
Solution:
1) Format SSD and create a 10GB partition.
2) Install new windows on 10GB partition. Windows will also create a 100mb System Reserve partition with the MBR.
3) Clone old Win 7 partition in a separate partition of the remaining space (say, 100GB) and mark as active and boot partition.
4) Delete 10GB partition of new Win 7 installation.

Do you guys think that makes sense?

You're overthinking it. When Windows 7 is installed on a bare drive, it creates the 100MB System Reserved partition automatically. So just do a quick Win7 install on the bare SSD, then wipe out the Windows partition on the SSD and clone your old Windows installation onto that. There's no need to mess with a special 10GB partition.

 

[sniperruff]

You're overthinking it. When Windows 7 is installed on a bare drive, it creates the 100MB System Reserved partition automatically. So just do a quick Win7 install on the bare SSD, then wipe out the Windows partition on the SSD and clone your old Windows installation onto that. There's no need to mess with a special 10GB partition.

So you'd think format + install Win 7 will get me a copy of the correct MBR, which will still function even when I wipe the new Win 7 install?

The reason why I thought of the 10gb partition was because one of the cloning programs formatted the entire drive (wiping the 100mb system reserved partition as well) in the process. It also seems that Partition Magic or something similar should get the unallocated spaces merged without much problem.

 

[ViRGE]

So you'd think format + install Win 7 will get me a copy of the correct MBR, which will still function even when I wipe the new Win 7 install?

That would be my hope. But then I thought for sure that my earlier instructions would work too, so clearly nothing is absolutely guaranteed.

The reason why I thought of the 10gb partition was because one of the cloning programs formatted the entire drive (wiping the 100mb system reserved partition as well) in the process. It also seems that Partition Magic or something similar should get the unallocated spaces merged without much problem.

One piece of advice: if you're using Partition Magic, don't. It's ancient and doesn't properly support Windows Vista or Windows 7.

As for the unallocated space, keep in mind that you can only merge partitions forward, not backward. So if you clone Win7 to a 3rd parition (after the 10GB), it won't be possible to merge that 10GB partition into the Win7 partition.

 

[JackMDS]

I do not know how much stuff you have on the 2TB and if you have (or can afford to buy) a second regular drive.

But simplest most secure way to this transfer is to clone the original drive onto a second regular drive.

Then boot the second drive and delete every thing that you do not want to go on the SSD.

When you have in your hand a clean second drive with 128GB use a cloning program to clone the drive to the SSD.

Acronis True image will auto clone a big drive to a small drive as long the amount of content on the big drive can be contained on the small drive. I.e., if a clean 2TB drive contains less than 128GB it will clone a normal bootable drive to the SSD.


😎

 

[sniperruff]

One piece of advice: if you're using Partition Magic, don't. It's ancient and doesn't properly support Windows Vista or Windows 7.

Oops I meant Partition Wizard. I think I will use that to clone as well. Either Clonezilla or EaseUS is wiping the whole disk instead of just using unallocated space. Point taken on the unallocated mess that a new partition would create.

Then boot the second drive and delete every thing that you do not want to go on the SSD.

When you have in your hand a clean second drive with 128GB use a cloning program to clone the drive to the SSD.

Acronis True image will auto clone a big drive to a small drive as long the amount of content on the big drive can be contained on the small drive. I.e., if a clean 2TB drive contains less than 128GB it will clone a normal bootable drive to the SSD.
😎

I have around 400gb of misc crap on another partition so I probably can't pull this off with a spare 200gb PATA drive I have around somewhere. This approach makes sense but by then I think I'd be pissed off and reinstall Win 7 from scratch 😉

Going to give Virge's recommendation a try tonight.

 

[lakedude]

"System" is the partition with the OS you're currently using.

Ahh, very good. Thank you!

 

[JackMDS]

but by then I think I'd be pissed off and reinstall Win 7 from scratch 😉

LOL, try to install on SSD a Dual Boot Hakintosh, then your current experience will look like a Breeze in a Hot summer. - 😛 - 😉


😎

 

[Auric]

Gee, that all seems overly complicated for a relatively simple task.

If the proggy used is failing then rather than using additional proggies (or OS) to try fixing it, simply try again with something known reliable -for instance what the drive manufacturer provides for free. If OCZ does not, then WD certainly does and generally the usage/license requirement is simply one of their drives existing in the system.

 

[sm625]

It can be very very ridiculous. I had this kind of trouble when trying to clone a Dell onto an SSD. And that was with a SSD that came with Norton Ghost and was supposedly meant specifically for migrating to an SSD! This is an area badly in need of software that Just Works.

 

[Auric]

Welp, I've been using Ghost (original Binary Research based version) for many years for both backup imaging and cloning. It does just work. I flirted with Acronis True Image for awhile but found it unreliable. Free tools generally do one or t'other and/or fail to include a Windows image "explorer". Ghost includes both DOS & Windows 64-bit exe's and a Windows explorer. The only downside is having to switch BIOS from AHCI to IDE mode for maximum DOS performance.

 

[jobz]

I used true image 2011 rescue disk to clone win7 from hd to ssd, switched ssd to boot first, then rerun windows experience index. Machine is running great for several months now. I think I spent more time finding out how to hide old boot partition, to use as a backup.

You have a WD green hd, so you can use free true image WD edition, http://support.wdc.com/product/downloaddetail.asp?swid=119. It is based on 2009 version, but says it is compatible with win7. I have no experience with it though.

 

[sniperruff]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I tried to cut corners yesterday by doing this:

1. Insert windows disc and initiate Win 7 install
2. Wipe SSD and let Win 7 create a 100mb system partition (strange thing is, that doesn't always happen)
3. Clone WD Green partition to SSD, leaving 100mb partition intact

That didn't work. Still prompts me to press crtl + alt + delete to restart. Then I wiped the drive again and installed Win 7. That alone runs great but I will try and clone the WD Green partition to the SSD tonight.

As for cloning program, I think I'll stick with what I know and go with EaseUS for now.

 

[Auric]

EASEUS Partition Master Professional Edition 9.1.1 was free on giveawayoftheday a few days ago. I grabbed it and installed it due to the activation deadline but have not tried it. At the very least, it includes a Linux boot image version which could come in handy. I have tried their stuff before but found them a bit hit 'n' miss.

 

[sniperruff]

First, I thank you all tremendously for the trouble-shooting. It's been a while since I worked on my computer. Heck, it's been so long I applied new thermal paste on the HSF and now it OC's flawlessly.

Second, migrating to an SSD was exactly as I imagined - great pains with modest gains.

Yesterday I started with a fresh Win 7 installation: a 100mb "system reserve" partition and another Win 7 partition.

I ran EaseUS Disk Copy to copy my old Win 7 installation on the WD Green, replacing the new Win 7 installation with nothing on it, leaving the 100mb "system reserve" partition intact. Looking back, I think I mistakenly interpreted the "install Win 7 again" suggestions as starting all over again. I should have done this from the get go.

I was very happy when I don't see the same "crtl + alt + delete to reboot" message. Successful boot into Windows!!!

Well, not quite. It boots into a giant blank blue screen with little writings that say "This copy of Windows 7 is not genuine".

Turned out a cloning program will relabel your old C: partition to another letter (I: in my case). I found some very useful info here:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...-genuine/1d8dfdad-2ea4-43be-a049-360429cc2d57

After I went through that, I am now able to boot into Windows with the old Win 7 partition! I haven't opened any program yet but it appears fine.

Start up/shut down is about 5 seconds faster. Programs open about 2 seconds faster. Even on a SATA150 mobo, the differences are discernible. I suppose if I upgrade to a SATA II/III mobo I'd notice some additional gains, but they would still be measured in seconds.

But in retrospect, I personally don't think it's worth the time/money to upgrade to an SSD for such gains, especially for someone who is not as tech savvy as you think you are (I can put hardware together and get rid of some hijacking malware, but that's it).

Debating whether it's worth the $60 after rebate price for it... but I feel wedded to it after going through all the trouble 😉