Cloning failed.. system logs me off as soon as I log in

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: pcgeek11
smilin,

It doesn't make any difference if it is a drive level clone or a partition level clone.

I don't think you understand how a drive is laid out. MBRs, partition tables, disk signatures, LDM databases, extended boot records are not included in a partition clone. So, YES it makes a difference if you are cloning a partition or a disk.

" A little care upfront will avoid this though. "

Like what? What he did sounds perfect to me. If you know what he did wrong, please let us know! I would like to hear this myself. If you don't mind me quoting you:

" Smells like guesses in here "

I don't mind you quoting me at all. If I need to make a guess I'll tell you when I'm doing it. If what he did was perfect he wouldn't have had a problem. Unless of course you think it's impossible to make a clone of a disk with Ghost without this error.

" You used a product A, had problems, never found root cause, switched to product B and the problem went away. In your eyes product A has problems and B doesn't. "

In everyones eyes product A has problems, I have used Ghost many many times and it was a hit and miss operation, sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't. I switched to Acronis and cloned hundreds of drives and partitions and it has worked perfectly everytime. What conclusion would you make ?

" I'm glad you're happy with the outcome, but you shouldn't be. "

Why not ?

Bologna
pcgeek11

"A man who doesn't learn from his mistakes is doomed to repeat them."

Something is only hit-or-miss if you never bother to find out what went wrong when you get a "miss". Since you never found the root cause you can't conclude what it is. You are merely making an assumption that it was Ghost. You could be right, but you don't really know do you? You seem sensitive to criticism which is unfortunate because you could be picking up some free knowledge here that might help you in the future.

Since this problem is gone and the thread owner is happy with the outcome this is all a moot discussion. The egos seem a bit large here so things may quickly degenerate into some sort of pissing contest. I'm quite confident in my views on this matter so I'll be more than happy to agree to disagree and walk away if you would like.

 

[SUOrangeman]

Hey, Netopia! Yeah, I'm still around. Had to do some real work to pay for my next "toy." Dual-core Opterons in an Iwill SFF don't come cheap. In fact, I'll likely go with an X2 (Shuttle) SFF first. Anyway, ...

I'll come back when I'm awake. A long layoff makes my posting quite rusty.

-SUO

 

[MDesigner]

SUO: No offense, but you need to read the thread carefully.. twice above I say clearly that I AM disconnecting the old drive before booting up. So no.. your wild guess that both drives were connected is totally off.

 

[SUOrangeman]

I make myself laugh sometimes. I shouldn't post when I am sleepy. No offense taken. In fact, let me remove my previous blurb.

-SUO

 

[pcgeek11]

smilin,

" I don't mind you quoting me at all. If I need to make a guess I'll tell you when I'm doing it. "

Why didn't you then. The only way it could happen in your scenario is IF he had left the original drive in the PC when rebooting on the cloned drive. He clearly stated that it was removed from the PC, and the MBR was rewritten to the cloned disk. You must have missed that point.

" If what he did was perfect he wouldn't have had a problem. "

Yeah and software never has bugs right? I have cloned the exact same HD partition with ghost the exact same way and had one good and one bad. What caused it? I really don't care, I don't have time to reverse engineer the software to locate the bugs, do you?

" Unless of course you think it's impossible to make a clone of a disk with Ghost without this error. "

It isn't impossible but too hit and miss for reliable back-ups. especially when done from a windows environment. The best method I have found is via the Acronis Boot CD which uses Linux.

" I don't think you understand how a drive is laid out. MBRs, partition tables, disk signatures, LDM databases, extended boot records are not included in a partition clone. So, YES it makes a difference if you are cloning a partition or a disk. "

Yes it could make a difference if done incorrectly. I just asked you what you thought he did wrong? As he did remove the original drive before rebooting and he did reinstall the MBR. Since you didn't state any pointers as to what was wrong that makes your statement a guess also doesn't it? Given the facts as we know them: The partition was cloned. The original drive was removed before rebooting. The MBR was rewritten. I'm not seeing it? What are you seeing?

" You seem sensitive to criticism which is unfortunate because you could be picking up some free knowledge here that might help you in the future. "

You also seem to be a bit sensitive to someone questioning your assumption of what caused the problem. Maybe you could learn something that would assist you in the future if you could admit that you possibly do not have all of the answers. This is what is really unfortunate.

" The egos seem a bit large here so things may quickly degenerate into some sort of pissing contest. "

Yes you are correct in this statement, if you include yourself. I will admit my ego is quite large. I have no intention of turning this into a pissing contest, I don't need to. Your convoluted fix was a patch for a botched backup clone and it didn't work, Acronis true image did work. BINGO.

" I'm quite confident in my views on this matter so I'll be more than happy to agree to disagree and walk away if you would like. "

I agree. Happy patching. If you continue using ghost I'm quite sure you will become an expert at it.

pcgeek11

 

[MDesigner]

Originally posted by: SUOrangeman
I make myself laugh sometimes. I shouldn't post when I am sleepy. No offense taken. In fact, let me remove my previous blurb.

-SUO

Could be worse.. you could've been so tired that you would've posted on the wrong forum..

 

[Smilin]

Ok, so...

1. System is cloned
2. Following the clone the user is returned to the logon screen immediately after logon.

Tell me genius, what causes this?

You don't have a clue do you? You're just an amature making guesses. I do happen to know exactly what causes this and I told you the fix. If you wanted to perform a complete reimage again instead of fixing it in three minutes so be it. What's your fix going to be when your computer won't boot some day? Rebuild it? Weak.

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: Smilin
Info for joo:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;223188

On an unrelated note, I did a complete system rebuild after I loaded up XP-64 and a subsequent Win2K install. The drive letters were backwards due to the forced new install of XP64. I could not figure on how to change them to be in the correct order. I did end up formatting the drives and restarting with the Win2K install. Never having heard of this type of resolution prior, it was definately the cheap way out. This link will help if I ever box myself into that corner again. Thanks! :beer:

 

[pcgeek11]

Quote:

1. System is cloned
2. Following the clone the user is returned to the logon screen immediately after logon.

Tell me genius, what causes this?

You don't have a clue do you? You're just an amateur making guesses. I do happen to know exactly what causes this and I told you the fix. If you wanted to perform a complete reimage again instead of fixing it in three minutes so be it.

Unquote.

OK.

I agree with you on what is causing the symptoms described above, it is in fact what you have previously stated about the shifted drive letters due to the GUID. But it is an end result of a deeper problem and NOT the root cause. I would be suspicious of the copied partition due to having one problem, there probably are other underlying issues other than the ones prebuilt into Windows all versions.

The biggest mistake here is attempting to clone from a Windows environment period. The ONLY good way to clone a drive or a partition ( Windows, Linux or any other OS ) is from a stand alone boot media vice the one you are cloning, regardless of what cloning software you prefer, Acronis or Norton. Powerquest Drive Image (or now Norton Ghost Ver 8) has made great strides in cloning drives and partitions from the GUI, but it isn't quite there yet. That my friend is the root cause of the problem, period.

Also your comment here " You're just an amateur making guesses." is also another misinformed quess as I have been working on PC's since 1973 Punch tape programming with light readers to present, yes I was in this business since you were toddling around crapping in your diapers and suckling a teat. In my eyes you sir are the amateur, with a very large head.

Do you work for Microsoft? Your fix for a problem seems to fall in line with MS's typical error response " We are just going to put it on the market, then patch it up so it appears to function later. " Yeah the 3 minute fix instead of doing it right the first time. You young pups need to go back a few steps and learn that doing it properly the first time is much more important than doing it faster.

Just to quote you from before: "A man who doesn't learn from his mistakes is doomed to repeat them." Microsoft also suffers from this same short term gradification syndrome.

Keep on patching, but I don't think you are catching up.

** Edited for STaSH ( amateur ) ( AKA The Speller Police )

pcgeek11

 

[stash]

Gah. You're both morons. The word is AMATEUR.

Sheesh.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: STaSh
Gah. You're both morons. The word is AMATEUR.

Sheesh.

:beer:

 

[Smilin]

No, I don't work for Microsoft you old bastard.

Thanks for the amusement, please ramble more.

 

[pcgeek11]

Smilin,

Quote:
No, I don't work for Microsoft you old bastard.

Thanks for the amusement, please ramble more.

Unquote.

************************ Quote:
WORK HISTORY

Microsoft Corporation - 2003 to Present

Enterprise Platforms Support Engineer providing the final point of escalation for Microsoft Premiere, Alliance and Paid Professional customers. Supporting the following Microsoft OS Platforms: Windows Server 2003 (Web, Standard and Enterprise), Windows 2000 (Server, Advanced Server and Professional), Windows XP (Professional only), Windows NT 4.0 (Server, Enterprise Server and Terminal Server only)

Areas of technical expertise include:

* Kernel mode memory dumps/blue screens, Failed boot/dead servers, disaster recovery
* Dynamic & Basic disks, damaged file systems (manual MBR, partition table and boot sector rebuilds)
* Storage technologies, RAID, SANs, iSCSI, RSM, VSS/Shadow copy, NT Backup
* Hardware installation, device drivers, Windows File Protection, HALs
* Troubleshooting for Service Packs, Security updates, hotfixes, Windows Update and SUS
* Specialist in OS setup including manual, unattend, sysprep and RIS installation.

Maintaned over 75% ?Very Satisfied? customer response with 0% of customers ?Dissatisfied?.

****************************** Unquote.

Well Joshua maybe you need to update your Resume then! It looks like you are claiming to work for Microsoft. Or do you make it a habit to lie on the internet?

I guess now we all know where your Credibility leads us..... Did you really work for SMC also? Really??? Are you one of those MS Techs that read canned answers from a 3 ring binder?

Quote " you old bastard " Unquote.

Thanks for the complement! I really appreciate it. It looks like I'm getting more amusement out of this than you are though. Temper Temper

Ramble on! I'm really enjoying our discussion. I was involved with USN Weapons Systems electronics also, Polaris, Poseidon, and Trident ICBM's and launching systems. Damn we have a lot in common. Big ego and all.

pcgeek11

 

[stash]

Smilin needs to update the resume. He definitely doesn't work here anymore (but we miss him ).

You two need to take your "my Internet penis is bigger than your Internet penis" squabble elsewhere and let this thread die. Please. Pretty please.

 

[pcgeek11]

STaSH,

Party Pooper! I'm just having fun. If you don't want to read it, then don't!
Or is it like a big mangled car wreck and you just can't look away!

pcgeek11

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: STaSh
Smilin needs to update the resume. He definitely doesn't work here anymore (but we miss him ).

You two need to take your "my Internet penis is bigger than your Internet penis" squabble elsewhere and let this thread die. Please. Pretty please.

I have an internet penis like King Kong.

Yeah I need to update my resume. I'm not at MS any longer. Actually I need to update that whole web page I haven't touched it in years.

pcgeek: You need to settle down. Digging up info on me personally is not going to make you right and it's pretty underhanded. You're only up to 21 posts and have lost a lot of respect. Since you did dig up my resume and look at my previous specialties maybe you can now admit that I have a clue about boot issues?

 

[pcgeek11]

smilin,

Quote:

pcgeek: You need to settle down. Digging up info on me personally is not going to make you right and it's pretty underhanded. You're only up to 21 posts and have lost a lot of respect. Since you did dig up my resume and look at my previous specialties maybe you can now admit that I have a clue about boot issues?

Unquote.

I'll agree we both need to settle down.

I didn't dig up anything on you, and I am not a stalker or anything. You had it posted on your profile via your own home page this is PUBLIC INFORMATION. The link to your web page is right there for the world to see, I didn't put it there, You did. You did seem to be offended when I implied that you were working for MS though. I just figured I would take a poke or two at you seeing as how I'm an " AMATEUR ", " Tell me genius, ... " and an " OLD BASTARD ". It seems as though you are the one resorting to the name calling etc... The worst thing in any of my posts was I stated that to me you were the amateur... OK, I'll admit that you are NOT an amateur... and you seem to be a very intellegent person, quite the opposite of a lot of people spouting off on the internet.

I never said you didn't have a clue. I think it is exceptional that you have a work around for the GUID issue that comes from Ghosting a drive / partition. Really I do! But my entire point that you seem to be so offended by is that the Norton Ghost cloning from a windows environment is flawed and cloning from a stand alone environment such as Acronis TrueImage is not flawed. I still feel this way, and will until all of the issues with Ghost are sorted out.

I guess we have two different ideas of the correct approach for this problem and neither of us are going to give much on the subject... I'm sure that you have assisted quite a few people on this board and I commend you for it. Just try not to think that your idea is the only correct idea, You are a Genius and everybody else is an amateur and you will go alot farther in life. Just some advice from an "Old Bastard " to a " Young Bastard ". It takes 3-5 minutes for your fix, and 20 - 30 minutes to reclone ( depending on the system and amount of data), in my opinion it is worth the extra effort to get it done correctly rather than fix it up so that it works. My 2 cents, sorry if you were offended too much.

You have my best wishes and thanks for helping the less schooled with their problems. Thanks for the debate!

J Hodges
pcgeek11

 

[MDesigner]

I'm unsubscribing from this thread, as it has degenerated into nonsense.

 

[JesseKnows]

To go back on topic:

Bologna!!!

A clone is a clone. It copies ones and zeros from one disk to another, Bit by bit copy.

Not quite. The problems are a result of the cloning software doing the right thing and assigning a different serial number to the copy. Differenr serial # causes Windows to think it's a different volume, ergo different drive letter during the first boot. Once the boot is complete Winodws rearranges the drive letters, and the drive does end up "C" (as long as it's the only drive in the system; try this with some other drives present and you have a bigger mess). But since the boot never completed (due to the userinit not found), you are stuck in an endless loop.

 

[pcgeek11]

Originally posted by: JesseKnows
To go back on topic:

Bologna!!!

A clone is a clone. It copies ones and zeros from one disk to another, Bit by bit copy.

Not quite. The problems are a result of the cloning software doing the right thing and assigning a different serial number to the copy. Differenr serial # causes Windows to think it's a different volume, ergo different drive letter during the first boot. Once the boot is complete Winodws rearranges the drive letters, and the drive does end up "C" (as long as it's the only drive in the system; try this with some other drives present and you have a bigger mess). But since the boot never completed (due to the userinit not found), you are stuck in an endless loop.

Quite:

See my other post where I stated:

"
The biggest mistake here is attempting to clone from a Windows environment period. The ONLY good way to clone a drive or a partition ( Windows, Linux or any other OS ) is from a stand alone boot media vice the one you are cloning, regardless of what cloning software you prefer, Acronis or Norton. Powerquest Drive Image (or now Norton Ghost Ver 8) has made great strides in cloning drives and partitions from the GUI, but it isn't quite there yet. That my friend is the root cause of the problem, period. "

It doesn't happen when the operation is completed under a stand alone boot media such as the Acronis Boot CD, ( Linux ).

pcgeek11

 

[JesseKnows]

I have seen the same problem occur with Ghost, and I have never ghosted from the GUI, only from a stand-alone booting Ghost.

Ghost may be a less effective tool than Acronix, I wouldn't argue either way never having used the latter. Just pointing out the root cause.

 

[Smilin]

Whatever dude.

Don't drag personal crap into this.


Dick.

 

[pcgeek11]

Originally posted by: Smilin
Whatever dude.

Don't drag personal crap into this.

Dick.

Well I'll be! I attempt to put out my hand to you and you just slap it away. FU

I guess we have two different ideas of the correct approach for this problem and neither of us are going to give much on the subject... I'm sure that you have assisted quite a few people on this board and I commend you for it. Just try not to think that your idea is the only correct idea, You are a Genius and everybody else is an amateur and you will go alot farther in life. Just some advice from an "Old Bastard " to a " Young Bastard ". It takes 3-5 minutes for your fix, and 20 - 30 minutes to reclone ( depending on the system and amount of data), in my opinion it is worth the extra effort to get it done correctly rather than fix it up so that it works. My 2 cents, sorry if you were offended too much.

You have my best wishes and thanks for helping the less schooled with their problems. Thanks for the debate!

You sir are the most conceited A$$Hole, I have ever had the displeasure of meeting. I would like to recant everything I nice said in the previous post above. You are not always right! I really tried to see things from your perspective, but I couldn't get my head that far up my a$$.

As far as the personal stuff goes. If you are stupid enough to put it on the internet, Then it is no longer private personnal or anything else. Any third grader could have told you this.

Done!

pcgeek11

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: pcgeek11

Well I'll be! I attempt to put out my hand to you and you just slap it away. FU

Was that the same hand soiled by your digging up personal information to attack my honesty with? I hope it stung when I slapped it and I don't particularly care what you think of me.

 

[pcgeek11]

" Was that the same hand soiled by your digging up personal information to attack my honesty with? I hope it stung when I slapped it and I don't particularly care what you think of me. "

Correction:

The information is PUBLIC when it is published on the internet!

noob