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Clone Army

G

Grasshopper27

Banned
We sometimes talk about using machines in war in place of soldiers, and while that might happen, it is also probably a number of years off before it becomes possible.

What about making a clone army? Ok, we all know this idea came from sci-fi first (don't all great ideas come from there?), but it is technically possible. The one thing that would need to be done would be a way to grow the clones outside of a womb.

If you can grow them in cloning tanks, you could produce millions of disposable soldiers that no one would mind losing in battle. Ignoring the moral issues involved (are they people, do they have rights, etc), it is probably much easier to do than building machines to fight without humans.

In addition, the current problems of clones become a non-issue if they are disposable soldiers, premature aging, genetic defects, ability to reproduce, etc. None of that matters if they are just a "product" for use by the military.

Technically this should be doable within 10 to 20 years. (battle machines might be 5 to 10 times that long in coming)

Thoughts?

Grasshopper
 
I think that subject just became too deep for my weary brain.

I'm hitting the sack. G'night! I'll answer this thread in the morning if it's still a hot topic.
 
Um, a clone army for WHAT exactly? Wouldn't that encourage wars?
rolleye.gif
 
I would imagine that when clone wars are faught, then war would be almost useless. This is because w/ clones, both sides will throw more clones to fight each other. In the future, wars will be won over the use of roberts controlled by people using Counter Strike 😀
 
Originally posted by: Utterman
I would imagine that when clone wars are faught, then war would be almost useless. This is because w/ clones, both sides will throw more clones to fight each other. In the future, wars will be won over the use of roberts controlled by people using Counter Strike 😀
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Hmmm, I don't think i would like to piss off one of these roberts... They don't sound too nice.
 
Originally posted by: kami
Um, a clone army for WHAT exactly? Wouldn't that encourage wars?
rolleye.gif
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For fighting wars, naturally...

Picture our current situation with Iraq and North Korea. We want to use force against both but we don't want to lose American lives in the process.

If we could send in a million clones into both countries armed with nothing but cheap M-16 rifles, they could overwhelm the militaries of both nations without requiring super expensive weapons or fancy battle plans.

Would depend on the production cost of the clones, but if you could make enough of them for a low enough price, they would be very useful. You could of course use the fancy weapons too, but the lack of concern over "deaths" would mean that you could fight those urban battles without the problems we face today.

Grasshopper
 
Anybody considered the fact the these "clones" would be human beings? They would have feelings, would experience pain, remorse, hope. They would be just like you and me. The only difference would be their "conception".
 
Such a thing would take wayyyyyyyyyyyy too much time. What you do is clone the best soldier we have out there, be it physical strength, stamina, skill.... take a few navy seal teams, clone them and continue to improve on our most superior fighters. With such a small scale elite force it'll be easier to train them.
 
I think the opposite is true. We're closer to having machines wage war for us than clones. Indeed, some may argue that machines already wage wars for us. Think of nuclear politics. The threat of an unmanned missile has more political weight than even the largest standing army. In the gulf war, we spent most of the time bombing from afar. If there was a new world war, I imagine it'd be rather short < 1yr of fighting with remote controlled missiles, smart bombs, etc ... maybe 10 years or so of hostility and military actions that aren't "officially" war, then decades of reparations paid as everyone fesses up that they weren't so nice. Then decades of political action as people refuse to pay said reparations, could possibly be followed by war again. War seems kinda tedious don't it?

Or we all just nuke each other to ash and dinosaurs eventually roam the earth again.
 
Originally posted by: Utterman
In the future, wars will be won over the use of roberts controlled by people using Counter Strike 😀
Click to expand...

does that mean your robot would wall hack?
 
Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Anybody considered the fact the these "clones" would be human beings? They would have feelings, would experience pain, remorse, hope. They would be just like you and me. The only difference would be their "conception".
Click to expand...

It is possible to alter the brain in such a way that their only thing to do is to attack what is attacking them. Once their mission is done, they are ground up into Manbeef and served to some hungary nation. Work complete 😀
 
has the clone war began


seriously I doubt it

well they would use clones before they use machines since it much easier to use a already existant design than to make something that would perfectly mimmick a human.
 
What's the keep the clone army from turning on their creators once the war was over? Sure, I guess that you could genetically engineer some "loyality gene" to prevent an uprising, but anyone who watches a lot of sci-fi movies knows how THAT always turns out 🙂

Besides, if you REALLY wanted to make the ultimate weapon, you should probably invent some kind of fusion bomb that has the power of a nuke without all that pesky radioactive fallout.
 
I think you'd face extraordinary problems with upbringing and training. They'd be human beings, you can't just treat them like the hollywood idea of a clone army. They'd need to be raised in a somewhat normal manner in order for them to survive and be stable enough to take orders. On the scale you're talking about, that would be nearly impossible.
 
Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Anybody considered the fact the these "clones" would be human beings? They would have feelings, would experience pain, remorse, hope. They would be just like you and me. The only difference would be their "conception".
Click to expand...

Yes, I did. The question then becomes, "if you make 10 million copies of the same person, raise them within the military to be soldiers, and alter their DNA to remove their feelings, hopes, dreams, etc., then does it really matter?"

At what point do they stop being "real people"?

Grasshopper
 
Originally posted by: grasshopper26
Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Anybody considered the fact the these "clones" would be human beings? They would have feelings, would experience pain, remorse, hope. They would be just like you and me. The only difference would be their "conception".
Click to expand...

Yes, I did. The question then becomes, "if you make 10 million copies of the same person, raise them within the military to be soldiers, and alter their DNA to remove their feelings, hopes, dreams, etc., then does it really matter?"

At what point do they stop being "real people"?

Grasshopper
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That's pretty sick.

 
Originally posted by: grasshopper26
Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Anybody considered the fact the these "clones" would be human beings? They would have feelings, would experience pain, remorse, hope. They would be just like you and me. The only difference would be their "conception".
Click to expand...

Yes, I did. The question then becomes, "if you make 10 million copies of the same person, raise them within the military to be soldiers, and alter their DNA to remove their feelings, hopes, dreams, etc., then does it really matter?"

At what point do they stop being "real people"?

Grasshopper
Click to expand...

You're supposing DNA could be altered to remove those things. That's a far leap from just making clones.
 
Originally posted by: HotChic
I think you'd face extraordinary problems with upbringing and training.
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That would be a task, to be sure. On the other hand, the reason I think clones would be more useful than machines is because humans are so adaptable. We can deal with our enviroment in a way that machines often can't.

The clones would be kept seperated from humanity, raised by the military and used as disposable combat troops. They would know from birth that is their only reason for existance. Their DNA would be altered so they would find this to be a perfectly normal thing and would not question it.

They'd be human beings, you can't just treat them like the hollywood idea of a clone army.
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Well, as I said in my first post, setting aside the moral issues... 🙂

From a pratical matter, I think it is doable within the next 10 to 20 years. Maybe never from a moral point of view. 😛

Grasshopper
 
This is a totally stupid thread/idea.

Thus far, it is totally impossible to grow babies out of a womb.

Clones are people--they are like TWINS....... NOT MINDLESS ROBOTS... lol

jeez....
 
Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
That's pretty sick.
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It is an honest question.

Ok, look at it from the reverse. What if we figured out how to grow adult clones and could skip the growing up process. Then we could simply implant everything they need to know in the memory ingrams of their brains and they could be combat ready within hours of being "born".

Are they still human? If so, does it continue to matter?

I'm not arguing one way or another, I honestly haven't given it enough thought yet, but it does present an interesting point.

Grasshopper
 
Originally posted by: HotChic
You're supposing DNA could be altered to remove those things. That's a far leap from just making clones.
Click to expand...

We already are altering DNA with the use of genetic viruses, this isn't new. Within 20 years we should have the ability to edit DNA at will and insert that edited DNA into eggs and grow them.

Humans after all are not that far removed from house plants when it comes to their DNA and the ability to edit it.

Grasshopper
 
Originally posted by: LordSegan
Thus far, it is totally impossible to grow babies out of a womb.
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Time and money will solve that problem. In any case, I was (for the sake of this question) assuming that problem had been solved.

Clones are people--they are like TWINS....... NOT MINDLESS ROBOTS...
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Yes, they are... With two they are called twins, with three, triplets, four quadruplets...

What do you call it when you make a million identical copies of a person?

Grasshopper
 
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