Clinton was the worst President in History!

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Gaard
Whether or not you think what he did was wrong (you're free to believe that the married president getting a hummer from a 20-year-old intern under the oval office desk isn't wrong if you want), perjury is perjury. It doesn't matter what questions he was asked or if you think the questions were appropiate, perjury is perjury.

You tell me how it serves the best interests of the nation to have their president forced to come to the stand and testify about his sex life.

Perjury is perjury, but going as low as Clinton's opposition did to destroy his public face is IMO just as inexcusable.

I'm not saying it serves the best interests of the country. Nor am I saying that the way he was hounded by his opposition was in any way justified or excusable. What I am saying is that what Clinton did was wrong and people need to just admit it without justifying it by saying "So-and-so was worse". Of course, his sexcapades aren't that bad, but lying to the American people is worse than having sex with a subordinate. Agree?

Yes, it was wrong to lie to Americans about Monica.
But the whole impeachment charade did much more damage to the US than Clinton's lying about sex ever did.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Why can't people admit that what Clinton did was wrong without having a "but...." tacked on?

OK:
Yes, it was wrong to lie to Americans about Monica.
In unrelated news, the whole impeachment charade did much more damage to the US than Clinton's lying about sex ever did.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Yeah, Bush is on TV every other day telling us how his tax cuts will improve the economy, yet we are to believe that the president has little to do with the state of the economy. You calling Bush a liar?

Yes I am. No doubt in my mind all this is, is an attempt to keep up support with his base. Thats all economic politics are. I can here the corporate leaders ripping out the checks they just wrote to the RNC and sending them in.. All in all its not a bad thing though. At least now the democrats won't spend all my damn money on useless socialistic programs..

Like what? What "socialistic" programs has Bush cut?

None unfortunately. He doesn't want to make the working middle class think he is a true conservative which is smart for his re election campaign. After which he will be able to do anything he wants..

So you are saying a true conservative is unelectable, and must hide his position in order to win the middle class vote?

 

[LunarRay]

It seems we apply a differn't criteria to what makes a President's actions a failure. Assuming all the Bigdude's items are true, which if you consider THE administration as Clinton most could be, the under lying facts or assumptions may have been such that it was the most prudent thing to do at the time. He launced a few missles and had some intrigue in Yugoslavia etc. But, I don't recall him fostering an agenda that required obfuscation and lies to enact it. If his sexual exploits are the issue I'd agree... a disgrace. If economic decisions are the topic I'd disagree and if military action is the topic.... No President beside Johnson, Nixon and Bush Jr. have subjected America to Lies of such magnitude that defense of them is impossible.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Yeah, Bush is on TV every other day telling us how his tax cuts will improve the economy, yet we are to believe that the president has little to do with the state of the economy. You calling Bush a liar?

Yes I am. No doubt in my mind all this is, is an attempt to keep up support with his base. That's all economic politics are. I can here the corporate leaders ripping out the checks they just wrote to the RNC and sending them in.. All in all its not a bad thing though. At least now the democrats won't spend all my damn money on useless socialistic programs..

Like what? What "socialistic" programs has Bush cut?

None unfortunately. He doesn't want to make the working middle class think he is a true conservative which is smart for his re election campaign. After which he will be able to do anything he wants..

So you are saying a true conservative is unelectable, and must hide his position in order to win the middle class vote?

That's probably true. I would say the same about "true" liberals. Clinton got elected by being liberal, but not "too" liberal. Bush was "conservative" but not too much so. The electorate in general does not like presidents who paint themselves in to an ideological corner.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Yeah, Bush is on TV every other day telling us how his tax cuts will improve the economy, yet we are to believe that the president has little to do with the state of the economy. You calling Bush a liar?

Yes I am. No doubt in my mind all this is, is an attempt to keep up support with his base. That's all economic politics are. I can here the corporate leaders ripping out the checks they just wrote to the RNC and sending them in.. All in all its not a bad thing though. At least now the democrats won't spend all my damn money on useless socialistic programs..

Like what? What "socialistic" programs has Bush cut?

None unfortunately. He doesn't want to make the working middle class think he is a true conservative which is smart for his re election campaign. After which he will be able to do anything he wants..

So you are saying a true conservative is unelectable, and must hide his position in order to win the middle class vote?

That's probably true. I would say the same about "true" liberals. Clinton got elected by being liberal, but not "too" liberal. Bush was "conservative" but not too much so. The electorate in general does not like presidents who paint themselves in to an ideological corner.

Add another "<gasp> I agree with him?" to the tally Hayabusarider

I'd likely say that anyone outside the 35-65%(with 50% being true middle) range is unelectable as President in the USA. For Individual states though I think the margin of electability is greater(like 25-75).

But as always there are exceptions

CkG

 

[IamDavid]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Yeah, Bush is on TV every other day telling us how his tax cuts will improve the economy, yet we are to believe that the president has little to do with the state of the economy. You calling Bush a liar?

Yes I am. No doubt in my mind all this is, is an attempt to keep up support with his base. Thats all economic politics are. I can here the corporate leaders ripping out the checks they just wrote to the RNC and sending them in.. All in all its not a bad thing though. At least now the democrats won't spend all my damn money on useless socialistic programs..

Like what? What "socialistic" programs has Bush cut?

None unfortunately. He doesn't want to make the working middle class think he is a true conservative which is smart for his re election campaign. After which he will be able to do anything he wants..

So you are saying a true conservative is unelectable, and must hide his position in order to win the middle class vote?

YES! You hit it head on. And the same goes for liberal Dem's. Anyone who doesn't believe it is a fool. If Gore ran as the man he really was he would have been crushed by Bush. Likewise with Bush if he'd ran as himself. And if they both would've ran as themselves the voting would have dropped in half. What Bush and Gore said through out the campaign was nothing more then pre made political propaganda for the ignorant masses to consume which we all did gracefully.

 

[Zrom999]

I'm no fan of Bush, but Clinton took advantage of a period of economic prosperity to do some really stupid things, but that doesn't make him the worst President in history.

 

[LunarRay]

Don't ya think Nixon and watergate and all the bombing in North Viet Nam sorta makes him right up there... perhaps if you were not there it wasn't as real as what you (generic you) lived through... I sure think Johnson and Nixon for sure can't be beat... I omit Bush Jr. on purpose..

 

[IamDavid]

Originally posted by: HJD1
Don't ya think Nixon and watergate and all the bombing in North Viet Nam sorta makes him right up there... perhaps if you were not there it wasn't as real as what you (generic you) lived through... I sure think Johnson and Nixon for sure can't be beat... I omit Bush Jr. on purpose..

Why not add the president who started the whole Vietnam mess to then? Or are you Bias in you political view? I'm sure you can remember who that was can't you?

 

[sMiLeYz]

Clinton is hated so much by the right wing because he was a liberal and he was good, smart, and so damn popular.

The accomplishments of Bill Clinton...

http://www.perkel.com/politics/clinton/accomp.htm

The sheer political genius that was Bill Clinton:

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/8672/

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/02/fallows.htm

He was a political mentor for Tony Blair, and regularly asked for advice by most of the Democratic presidential hopefuls:

Howard Dean called Clinton in last week's Newsweek

I'm not afraid to say... theres no one as good as him at least in our generation.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Originally posted by: HJD1
Don't ya think Nixon and watergate and all the bombing in North Viet Nam sorta makes him right up there... perhaps if you were not there it wasn't as real as what you (generic you) lived through... I sure think Johnson and Nixon for sure can't be beat... I omit Bush Jr. on purpose..

Why not add the president who started the whole Vietnam mess to then? Or are you Bias in you political view? I'm sure you can remember who that was can't you?

Well... yeah I remember history.. but, Ike only had a few "advisors" Kennedy had what about 2000 and issued executive order to remove them just before he was shot then Johnson reversed it. So to me Johnson with the Tonkin resolution (lie) started it and I have him on my post above and in previous post..

 

[LunarRay]

Regarding bias,
I will vote for anyone who I think will act in a fiscally prudent manner and fund the socially demanding issues... anyone. I can't very easily determine the real agendas in the minds of people so I'm left with what I can see or extrapolate on... I have little independent knowledge to work with.. history is easiest for me to try to understand..

 

[IamDavid]

I will vote for anyone who I think will act in a fiscally prudent manner and fund the socially demanding issues... anyone.

Hey, imagine that. We think alike. We must just have different ides what "socially demanding" issues are.
I personally can't stand any type of welfare (personal or corporate), universal health-care of any kind, or a federally funded education system. Unfortunately it seems every president and politician support all three of these.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Yes, lying under oath is a crime and he was punished for it.

He lied about sex. Yawn.

Anyone who demonizes Clinton for lying, yet supports the likes of Reagan and Bush-lite is a hopelessly partisan hypocrite. You have less than zero credibility.

How does a liar have "credibility"? The Commander In Chief of the Most Lethal Armed Forces the world has ever known

 

[Bigdude]

Are you implying that US hegemony is key to world peace? Furthermore, are you saying that it is the duty of the United States to police the rest of the world. It seems to me also that you are using the premise of world security as a weighing mechanism to justify US global domination, politically, economically, and millitarily, is this true?

If not us, then who can police the World?

 

[Bigdude]

Clinton was such a political genius, that we now have a Republican President, Senate, and House! I hope that the democRATs running for President, get lots of advice from him.

 

[Aceshigh]

I agree wholeheartedly with Bigdude on this post.

 

[Red Dawn]

The fact that he still irritates muddle minded UC's almost 3 years after leaving office attests to his effectiveness as a President and leader of the common American (as compared tp the Red Asses Limbaughtista)

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The fact that he still irritates muddle minded UC's almost 3 years after leaving office attests to his effectiveness as a President and leader of the common American (as compared tp the Red Asses Limbaughtista)

As compared to the "brilliance" of those that "look to the past" and blame Reagan

Clinton is keeping himself in the news, trying to rewrite his "legacy", and until he stops - he is fair game.

CkG

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: IamDavid

I will vote for anyone who I think will act in a fiscally prudent manner and fund the socially demanding issues... anyone.

Hey, imagine that. We think alike. We must just have different ides what "socially demanding" issues are.
I personally can't stand any type of welfare (personal or corporate), universal health-care of any kind, or a federally funded education system. Unfortunately it seems every president and politician support all three of these.

Caring for the aged, the disabled and providing workable scenerios to get people off welfare that can work. Insuring the youth have quality education and food/lunch and provide daycare scenerios for low income people to work and not stay home because they can't afford day care. Health care scenerios so we don't incur more massive costs that could be avoided or to insure people of all income levels have at least some access to health care. The more you earn the more you can afford and that is fine. You stay in private room others in dorms.. but, everyone should have the access to the basics.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Bigdude
Clinton was such a political genius, that we now have a Republican President, Senate, and House! I hope that the democRATs running for President, get lots of advice from him.

The democratic vote just cancels out the republican vote. It is me the floater somewhere in the middle and not tied to any dogma that elects the folks... and we don't know who we're gonna vote for yet.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Yes, lying under oath is a crime and he was punished for it.

He lied about sex. Yawn.

Anyone who demonizes Clinton for lying, yet supports the likes of Reagan and Bush-lite is a hopelessly partisan hypocrite. You have less than zero credibility.

How does a liar have "credibility"? The Commander In Chief of the Most Lethal Armed Forces the world has ever known

Huh???

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Yes, lying under oath is a crime and he was punished for it.

He lied about sex. Yawn.

Anyone who demonizes Clinton for lying, yet supports the likes of Reagan and Bush-lite is a hopelessly partisan hypocrite. You have less than zero credibility.

How does a liar have "credibility"? The Commander In Chief of the Most Lethal Armed Forces the world has ever known

Huh???

You said that others who talk bad about his lying have zero credibility... but tell me, does a liar have any credibility?

Do you trust people who lie to you? People who lie to 265,000,000 ... really 6,500,000,000 people?

Intel, Microsoft, AMD, SunMicrosystems and that thar Intarnet was responsible for the economy that Clinton profited from. That BOOM is now dead and so ANY president who was in office right now would be having serious troubles with the American Economy and especially after September 11th..... September 11th would have happened even if Gore were elected.

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: Bigdude
Clinton was such a political genius, that we now have a Republican President, Senate, and House! I hope that the democRATs running for President, get lots of advice from him.

About time for a ban, mods? I think it's troll cleaning time...

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Yes, lying under oath is a crime and he was punished for it.

He lied about sex. Yawn.

Anyone who demonizes Clinton for lying, yet supports the likes of Reagan and Bush-lite is a hopelessly partisan hypocrite. You have less than zero credibility.

How does a liar have "credibility"? The Commander In Chief of the Most Lethal Armed Forces the world has ever known

Huh???

You said that others who talk bad about his lying have zero credibility

No, I said anyone who demonizes Clinton for lying yet ignores the lies of others like Reagan and Bush is a hypocrite with no credibility. If they demonize all three presidents for their lies, then they are at least consistent.

... but tell me, does a liar have any credibility?

Do you trust people who lie to you? People who lie to 265,000,000 ... really 6,500,000,000 people?

Intel, Microsoft, AMD, SunMicrosystems and that thar Intarnet was responsible for the economy that Clinton profited from. That BOOM is now dead and so ANY president who was in office right now would be having serious troubles with the American Economy and especially after September 11th..... September 11th would have happened even if Gore were elected.

I generally agree with the rest of your comment but I don't think it's relevent to anything I said. I am not blaming Bush for September 11 or for the economic downturn per se. I do believe Bush handled both events poorly and is responsible for the harm caused by his poor performance.