Clinton Doesn't Pay Interns $15 An Hour

[TheGardener]

I'm linking an op-ed. It is not news, but the opinion of the NY Post. Like them, I am fine with the concept of unpaid interns. But they point out, that Clinton is not. Yet, she makes frequent use of unpaid interns. Another case of her saying, do as I say, not as I do.

“Businesses have taken advantage of unpaid internships to an extent that it is blocking the opportunities for young people to move on into paid employment,” she [Clinton] lectured at UCLA in 2013. “More businesses need to move their so-called interns to employees.”

Is her only defense that she is not a business? Collecting fees of tens of millions of dollars in the last five years or so, tells me that she is.

If you are going to defend her, I'd like to also know whether you are personally okay with unpaid internships.

http://nypost.com/2015/08/17/hillary-clintons-intern-al-hypocrisy/

 

[fskimospy]

I'm linking an op-ed. It is not news, but the opinion of the NY Post. Like them, I am fine with the concept of unpaid interns. But they point out, that Clinton is not. Yet, she makes frequent use of unpaid interns. Another case of her saying, do as I say, not as I do.

Is her only defense that she is not a business? Collecting fees of tens of millions of dollars in the last five years or so, tells me that she is.

If you are going to defend her, I'd like to also know whether you are personally okay with unpaid internships.

http://nypost.com/2015/08/17/hillary-clintons-intern-al-hypocrisy/

Plenty of people work within the law as it is while saying we should change it. Also, that quote does not say she is against unpaid internships, it says she is against unpaid internships that are employees in all but name. (and paycheck). Internships are supposed to be for networking and education.

Finally, the NY Post is a dumpster fire of a newspaper.

 

[BurnItDwn]

unpaid interns exist so that kids from wealthy families, who do not need the money since they are supported by mommy and daddy can network and make those connections that will land them the best paying jobs after they finish school.

This is a process to help prevent the middle class from having the upward mobility that everybody talks about. Its a good way to put people in their place.

 

[ctbaars]

Sorry mom and dad couldn't help you out, BurnitDwn. When you have children, support them so they can have the internship to get upward mobility.

 

[Exophase]

Is her only defense that she is not a business?

It's a pretty critical distinction.

I don't know if Hillary's campaign positions are called internships or not, but I would consider it more akin to volunteer work. It's service contributed towards some perceived societal benefit, not someone's earnings or market standing. At the extreme end you wouldn't expect someone opposed to unpaid internships to also be opposed to unpaid volunteer work in a soup kitchen feeding the homeless, would you?

If you're going to say she should be against unpaid work contributions to her campaign you'd may as well say she should be against monetary donations. They more or less amount to the same thing.

 

[TheGardener]

Plenty of people work within the law as it is while saying we should change it.

Neither I nor the Post said she did anything illegal in this regard. My analogy to your statement would be a politician who publicly opposes people having guns in their homes, but legally has one in his or her home. The word hypocrisy comes to mind. Nothing illegal about being a hypocrite. Still shaming others while you do the same is disconcerting.

Also, that quote does not say she is against unpaid internships, it says she is against unpaid internships that are employees in all but name.

You lost me. I don't see the difference. Is this another example of the definition of what "is is"?

Internships are supposed to be for networking and education.

In the ideal world, that is how it should be. So we agree there. But differentiating between one intern's responsibilities and another is not easily defined. Cannot a Clinton intern get both educational experience and build up contacts for networking, while doing a job?

Finally, the NY Post is a dumpster fire of a newspaper.

I try to read the NY Post online 4 to 5 times a week. That might seem strange to some, given that I live in Massachusetts. But the Kardashian and Jenner stuff aside, I can find some very good reporting and interesting op-ed pieces.

 

[Exophase]

unpaid interns exist so that kids from wealthy families, who do not need the money since they are supported by mommy and daddy can network and make those connections that will land them the best paying jobs after they finish school.

This is a process to help prevent the middle class from having the upward mobility that everybody talks about. Its a good way to put people in their place.

Do you have any statistics to back that up?

My impression is that a lot of unpaid internships go to college students who are in between years and would have a hard time getting meaningful paid work anyway. You don't have to be wealthy to be able to afford not working between college years, you just need the bare minimum of support from your parents and/or from loans. I didn't work during the summer while I was getting my degrees and I was pretty much dirt broke and so was my single mother. I focused on doing other things that eventually contributed to my earnings, much like an unpaid internship would have.

From what I hear there are fields like fashion where you need to get these internships to have any hope of getting your foot in the door at all. And here is where a lot of unpaid interns get exploited to the extreme, hence why we're now seeing a lot of class action lawsuits spring up against the businesses who interned them.

 

[fskimospy]

Neither I nor the Post said she did anything illegal in this regard. My analogy to your statement would be a politician who publicly opposes people having guns in their homes, but legally has one in his or her home. The word hypocrisy comes to mind. Nothing illegal about being a hypocrite. Still shaming others while you do the same is disconcerting.

No, not hypocrisy at all. There are plenty of people who think taxes should be higher but still pay what they are legally required to and no more. That's not hypocrisy, that's just recognizing that it's a society wide issue.

You lost me. I don't see the difference. Is this another example of the definition of what "is is"?

Interns aren't supposed to take the place of full time employees, as mentioned in the quote. There's nothing in the quote that says unpaid interns shouldn't exist at all. This is why you shouldn't read the Post.

In the ideal world, that is how it should be. So we agree there. But differentiating between one intern's responsibilities and another is not easily defined. Cannot a Clinton intern get both educational experience and build up contacts for networking, while doing a job?

They can!

I try to read the NY Post online 4 to 5 times a week. That might seem strange to some, given that I live in Massachusetts. But the Kardashian and Jenner stuff aside, I can find some very good reporting and interesting op-ed pieces.

I'm sorry to hear that, haha. The NY Post is widely regarded as an ideological front masquerading as a newspaper. If you're looking to be informed about the issues it's going to give you a terribly misleading picture.

They DO have pretty hilarious headlines though. I enjoy that. I think my favorite one was about the janitor that was standing on top of a school to peep at women in the next building over while... uhmm... doing inappropriate things. They called him the 'fiddler on the roof'. That was great.

 

[TheGardener]

It's a pretty critical distinction.

I don't know if Hillary's campaign positions are called internships or not, but I would consider it more akin to volunteer work. It's service contributed towards some perceived societal benefit, not someone's earnings or market standing. At the extreme end you wouldn't expect someone opposed to unpaid internships to also be opposed to unpaid volunteer work in a soup kitchen feeding the homeless, would you?

If you're going to say she should be against unpaid work contributions to her campaign you'd may as well say she should be against monetary donations. They more or less amount to the same thing.

What if her, Bill's and Chelea's foundation were to have interns? Given the money making of that so-called not for profit, I would call that a business. And why do you say that a capitalist business cannot serve a societal benefit. What about a radio station that delivers news, commentary and traffic reports? Some young person can't be an intern there, because they are legally a for profit and cannot afford to hire someone. I think you are trending a very thin line. If interns have to be paid, it should be for all venues, including political campaigns.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Do you have any statistics to back that up?

My impression is that a lot of unpaid internships go to college students who are in between years and would have a hard time getting meaningful paid work anyway. You don't have to be wealthy to be able to afford not working between college years, you just need the bare minimum of support from your parents and/or from loans. I didn't work during the summer while I was getting my degrees and I was pretty much dirt broke and so was my single mother. I focused on doing other things that eventually contributed to my earnings, much like an unpaid internship would have.

From what I hear there are fields like fashion where you need to get these internships to have any hope of getting your foot in the door at all. And here is where a lot of unpaid interns get exploited to the extreme, hence why we're now seeing a lot of class action lawsuits spring up against the businesses who interned them.

The vast majority of people need to work during those years, as well as during their college years for income. Something like 5-10% can afford to work unpaid jobs, these are students from wealthy families who have support. There have been documentaries, otherwise, I dare you to find an unpaid intern who comes from a family with under 50K annual income.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Sorry mom and dad couldn't help you out, BurnitDwn. When you have children, support them so they can have the internship to get upward mobility.

I have been working since the Day I turned 16 and I am doing OK. I have a house, a car, and food in the fridge and a woman to keep the bed warm. I dont need much more. I can't afford to put a kid through college though...

 

[nageov3t]

is there any evidence that she's violating the law and that the interns are doing work that a staffer normally would have to be paid to do?

 

[PokerGuy]

No, not hypocrisy at all. There are plenty of people who think taxes should be higher but still pay what they are legally required to and no more. That's not hypocrisy, that's just recognizing that it's a society wide issue.

Society wide issue? How is it a society-wide issue to decide to pay the interns a certain rate? If you keep preaching how they should be paid a certain rate, then just go ahead and show us how it should be done. A business that has to compete against other businesses, so if one business raises wages by itself it's going to have a harder time competing against other businesses that don't. That makes it an issue that can't be addressed by a single business. Paying interns however is an easy situation for her to show how it should be done.

Hypocrisy as usual. Do as I say, trust me, it's for the best.

I'm sorry to hear that, haha. The NY Post is widely regarded as an ideological front masquerading as a newspaper.

Are you talking about the times or the post? Oh, both. OK then 🙂

 

[fskimospy]

Society wide issue? How is it a society-wide issue to decide to pay the interns a certain rate? If you keep preaching how they should be paid a certain rate, then just go ahead and show us how it should be done. A business that has to compete against other businesses, so if one business raises wages by itself it's going to have a harder time competing against other businesses that don't. That makes it an issue that can't be addressed by a single business. Paying interns however is an easy situation for her to show how it should be done.

Hypocrisy as usual. Do as I say, trust me, it's for the best.

Uhmmmm...isn't the entire purpose of a campaign to compete against other campaigns?

Are you talking about the times or the post? Oh, both. OK then 🙂

Well one is the most famous paper in the country that holds more Pulitzer Prizes than any other publication and is renowned worldwide for the quality of their journalism. The other is the NY Post.

If that's the same to you, well I guess that's your business.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Is her only defense that she is not a business? Collecting fees of tens of millions of dollars in the last five years or so, tells me that she is.

If you are going to defend her, I'd like to also know whether you are personally okay with unpaid internships.

http://nypost.com/2015/08/17/hillary...-al-hypocrisy/

More tado about nothing..this really is a non issue! Just more an attempt to bash Clinton....

 

[PokerGuy]

Uhmmmm...isn't the entire purpose of a campaign to compete against other campaigns?

In fact, no, it isn't. The campaign is there to support a candidate to hopefully be elected to an office. A campaign itself is not competing against other campaigns. If hillary and her minions pay the interns what she has said elsewhere interns should be paid, would that somehow make her a worse candidate?

Well one is the most famous paper in the country that holds more Pulitzer Prizes than any other publication and is renowned worldwide for the quality of their journalism. The other is the NY Post.

If that's the same to you, well I guess that's your business.

You mean the prize awarded by lefties to other lefties? Oh, yeah, that's a real giant indicator of integrity and quality. 😀 I'm sure there's the occasional one thrown to a non hardcore lefty, but that's the rare exception. The pulitzer might be worth something as related to books or music, but as related to journalism it's a joke. Just the usual main stream leftist media types patting each other on the back.

 

[fskimospy]

In fact, no, it isn't. The campaign is there to support a candidate to hopefully be elected to an office. A campaign itself is not competing against other campaigns. If hillary and her minions pay the interns what she has said elsewhere interns should be paid, would that somehow make her a worse candidate?

Oh come on. Campaigns support a candidate to be elected to an office by competing against other campaigns.

Give me a break.

You mean the prize awarded by lefties to other lefties? Oh, yeah, that's a real giant indicator of integrity and quality. 😀 I'm sure there's the occasional one thrown to a non hardcore lefty, but that's the rare exception. The pulitzer might be worth something as related to books or music, but as related to journalism it's a joke. Just the usual main stream leftist media types patting each other on the back.

The Wall St. Journal has won 34 Pulitzer Prizes despite it's marked conservative tilt. Anything that challenges the myth of liberal media bias has to be ignored, as usual. Again, if you want to have your own reality where the NYT and the NY Post are somehow equivalent I guess that's your business. Nobody outside of the ultra right will take that idea seriously though.

 

[TheGardener]

The Wall St. Journal has won 34 Pulitzer Prizes despite it's marked conservative tilt. Anything that challenges the myth of liberal media bias has to be ignored, as usual.

Even among liberals, The Wall St Journal is held up for its excellent new reporting. Of course they hate the op-ed columns. That is understandable. It's too bad we can't link the WSJ. They are one of the few successful online newspapers that require a subscription.

 

[fskimospy]

Even among liberals, The Wall St Journal is held up for its excellent new reporting. Of course they hate the op-ed columns. That is understandable. It's too bad we can't link the WSJ. They are one of the few successful online newspapers that require a subscription.

I agree! While I think the quality of their reporting has declined since Murdoch took over and they changed their format to de-emphasize longer pieces, they are still an excellent source. I also wish that they weren't paywalled.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Clinton is all talk. She will follow the same path set forth by her donors/lobbyists and they want unpaid employees. So she will keep it that way.

And so will Jeb Bush since he gets money from the same pot.

 

[Jaskalas]

Plenty of people work within the law as it is while saying we should change it.

You nailed it in the first sentence.
/thread.

 

[kage69]

Plenty of people work within the law as it is while saying we should change it.

I seem to recall certain GOP here fanbois using that exact same notion to explain away their chosen accepting federal funds in the not-too-distant past. True to form, there's nothing they won't reverse in an attempt to make political hay (even the worthless moldy kind).

Finally, the NY Post is a dumpster fire of a newspaper.

Come come now, it makes perfectly fine birdcage lining, let's be fair! 😉

 

[Victorian Gray]

The story from a non tabloid source. It's a wee bit more nuanced than the original source. It's not just the 'kids':

"Experienced, adult political operatives who want to do grassroots work for Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign currently have no choice but to work as unpaid, full-time interns, raising new questions about how the White House frontrunner runs her own labor force as she prepares to double down on young people’s role in the American economy.

The Clinton campaign is currently in the midst of what multiple Democratic sources described as a “hiring freeze” for paid organizing positions in the early campaign states where the former Secretary of State is laying the foundations of a massive national staff, with few if any paying jobs available for field operations.

Clinton’s camp has made headlines about its frugality and a hard sell on its fellowship program, which allows aspiring politicos between the ages of 18 and 24 to spend this summer as full-time campaign volunteers. The result, however, is the human-resources reality of a campaign – one scheduled to hold at least 26 fundraisers this month alone – that isn’t just taking on college students with political science degrees but expecting political veterans to gamble their careers on her without pay."

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/13/hillary-clinton-unpaid-summer-intern-campaign

 

[Exophase]

The vast majority of people need to work during those years, as well as during their college years for income. Something like 5-10% can afford to work unpaid jobs, these are students from wealthy families who have support. There have been documentaries, otherwise, I dare you to find an unpaid intern who comes from a family with under 50K annual income.

Do you have statistics or not? I'm not just going to accept this on faith.

I just asked my girlfriend if she ever did unpaid internship work between semesters of undergrad and she told me that she had to pay to do archealogy work (as an anthropology major) at a dig site.

Her parents were definitely not wealthy, although they probably had a combined income of over $50k but you're dramatically moving the goal posts if you consider wealthy family to start there. I can tell you that my mother was under $30k income during most of my college education (this was 8-14 years ago) and I didn't work any of the summers. We could manage the same way we did before I started college. You don't think people with income under $50k can't afford to take care of kids do you?

 

[Zorba]

Plenty of people work within the law as it is while saying we should change it. Also, that quote does not say she is against unpaid internships, it says she is against unpaid internships that are employees in all but name. (and paycheck). Internships are supposed to be for networking and education.

Finally, the NY Post is a dumpster fire of a newspaper.

I agree with this.

Between her sophomore and Junior year my wife took an unpaid internship with the FAA, working 2 or 3 days a week, with a pretty flexible schedule and they tried to expose her to a lot. That internship gave her a lot resume fluff that helped her get a paid co-op the next year and a good job at graduation.

Meanwhile, I currently employee an intern at work that is expected to be there 40 hours a week, on a set schedule and meet real deadlines doing real, important work. She is paid quite well, almost as much as a full-time level 1, and I would think it was BS if she wasn't. She is still getting a lot of networking and education, but the company is getting a lot of productive work from her as well.