you need to visit a health professional.
Just replace big Bank with GM and chyrsler. Two peas in a pod.
Because I don't agree with you? LOL Please crawl back in your bombproof bunker.
you need to visit a health professional.
Just replace big Bank with GM and chyrsler. Two peas in a pod.
Because I don't agree with you? LOL Please crawl back in your bombproof bunker.
No. Because you are so devoid of reason and logic.
Like when you missed the fact that an article you posted, directly contradicted your point.
Or how you are arguing that one bad bailout was good, but another one bad just because you think one industry is 'greedy'.
There are plenty of other reasons.
Sure there would. GM could have went into bankruptcy and had a leaner meaner auto manufacturer emerge. Now we have one that still has no way to pay future pension/healthcare liabilities. And one that still operates under the slow to adapt union mentality.
Leaner and meaner is code for low paid workers. Yes, everybody gets it, you want to gut the middle class even further. Give it up. The automakers are doing great, paying most of their workers well, and all are getting at least a living wage, and the union made big concessions.
Can you give examples of the unions making big concessions?
I can summarize them quickly. GM union pensioners and employees, were given a stake in the new company. Much different than what happens in a normal bankruptcy, where the pension ends up in PBGC. The maximum benefit amount for PBGC is significantly less, for many, than what they would have gotten from a government backed GM, under the risk based scenario. The union employees/pensioners now have risk in the new GM, similar to what you see around the rest of the world, where unions are either on corporate boards or are active in the profitability of the firm.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/wisconsin_02-21.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7379741n
http://www.thecourier.com/Issues/20...11_story2.asp?d=112911_story2,2011,Nov,29&c=n
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...XMjAAAAIBAJ&sjid=M2cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6946,6508310
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204662204577199212277414188.html
I guess I am not really sure how any of this relates to GM...
Did you post the wrong links?
No you asked about showing Union concessions show I am illustrating that Unions engage in concessions all the time.
GWB says he would bailout the auto industry again...
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/07/10342178-bush-on-auto-bailouts-id-do-it-again
It was abundantly obvious, based on the quotation this was about GM and automakers and yes list the UAW.
Attempt to prove what I said was wrong.
The union and their pension would have been the biggest loser in a GM bankruptcy.
Pensions would have gone to PBGC.
And?
Can you give examples of the unions making big concessions?
I can summarize them quickly. GM union pensioners and employees, were given a stake in the new company. Much different than what happens in a normal bankruptcy, where the pension ends up in PBGC. The maximum benefit amount for PBGC is significantly less, for many, than what they would have gotten from a government backed GM, under the risk based scenario. The union employees/pensioners now have risk in the new GM, similar to what you see around the rest of the world, where unions are either on corporate boards or are active in the profitability of the firm.
And what? If you want to get into Bush's brain E-mail the turd blossom.
There's only a profit to taking out debt if the investment has a multiplier that is equal to the savings rate of inflated debt (using 5x5 inflation expectations with a savings of 55bps a year that number is .9467). Most government projects unfortunately have a multiplier less than one, meaning that even with negative real rates the investment costs more than the fundamental value. This is known as the overhead effect in economics. Projects must generate positive NPV including all the costs of administration and fees associated with the project.
Simple example. If the Federal government decides to send out $1 to every citizen, it costs more than $1 to accomplish this. There is the cost of postage, the cost of making the decision, etc. The same takes place in a business. That is how you get a multiplier less than one. i.e. 1/real cost so will use .7 as the example. The project would cost 1.42 to get every dollar into the economy, meaning the multiplier is .7.
Even though we are paying economic rent (interest) that is less than the inflation rate on borrowed principal, the difference must equal the real rate differential as well as the multiplier difference in the project.
In the above example, assuming inflation runs at 55bps more than the 10 year nominal rate (using 5x5 inflation breakevens) the above project still costs ~3.0% per annum in real economic cost the savings.
The major problem is that many government projects don't generate positive multipliers. Real interest rate differentials can't fix this.
So no, we aren't doing ourselves a favor in borrowing as it is cheaper than 5x5 inflation breakevens.
(And again, don't take this as me making a position either way on the large fiscal deficits, just more or less trying to state facts as I like to watch you guys argue.)
I dont have time to find the newest article but this is from last July.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/21/auto...ains/index.htm
This was revised upwards to about 23 billion at the end of 2011. If you search google there were articles about it. No the money sank into the abyss and we wont be getting it back.
We would have lost more in total tax revenues had GM gone under. Read your own article.
You posted a link showing Bush would support the auto bailout again. I am asking you and?????? Meaning what about it? Do you have a point to make by posting that link?
I am still waiting for a reply from my previous post about you supporting one bailout because of collateral damage over another with bigger collateral damage.
Simply posting the news in regard to this thread...wtf is wrong with that??
Where did I pick and choose which bailout I condoned? I missed that memo. What the fuck does it matter anyway because it wouldn't have stopped either bailout from occurring.
If it were up to us there would be a balanced budget. The US government would not be picking winners and losers on the backs of the US tax payers. US auto makers would live or die on their own merits lending to free market principles where Ford would have reigned supreme.
The ashes of the failed companies would give rise to new opportunity.
So?
His tune changed when money was changing hands. not 3 months ago he was against the bailouts, now he's all supportive of them?
Thats integrity? LOL
I thought this ad was both profound but flawed
Or maybe that's being able to re-evaluate one's position based on new evidence...
Something that hardcore ideologues of every stripe are just unable to do...