Climate skeptics hold scientific review, unexpectedly find global warming is real

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
I guess the science really is settled. Also, sort of hilarious that the Koch brothers (who I see demonized in here constantly and can't be bothered to read up on) paid for this effort only to have the conclusions come in against their (assumed) position.

latimes.com - Critics' review unexpectedly supports scientific consensus on global warming

A team of UC Berkeley physicists and statisticians that set out to challenge the scientific consensus on global warming is finding that its data-crunching effort is producing results nearly identical to those underlying the prevailing view.

The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project was launched by physics professor Richard Muller, a longtime critic of government-led climate studies, to address what he called "the legitimate concerns" of skeptics who believe that global warming is exaggerated.

But Muller unexpectedly told a congressional hearing last week that the work of the three principal groups that have analyzed the temperature trends underlying climate science is "excellent.... We see a global warming trend that is very similar to that previously reported by the other groups."

The hearing was called by GOP leaders of the House Science & Technology committee, who have expressed doubts about the integrity of climate science. It was one of several inquiries in recent weeks as the Environmental Protection Agency's efforts to curb planet-heating emissions from industrial plants and motor vehicles have come under strenuous attack in Congress.

Muller said his group was surprised by its findings, but he cautioned that the initial assessment is based on only 2% of the 1.6 billion measurements that will eventually be examined.

The Berkeley project's biggest private backer, at $150,000, is the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation. Oil billionaires Charles and David Koch are the nation's most prominent funders of efforts to prevent curbs on the burning of fossil fuels, the largest contributor to planet-warming greenhouse gases.

The $620,000 project is also partly funded by the federal Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, where Muller is a senior scientist. Muller said the Koch foundation and other contributors will have no influence over the results, which he plans to submit to peer-reviewed scientific journals.

Ken Caldeira, an atmospheric scientist at the Carnegie Institution for Science, which contributed some funding to the Berkeley effort, said Muller's statement to Congress was "honorable" in recognizing that "previous temperature reconstructions basically got it right…. Willingness to revise views in the face of empirical data is the hallmark of the good scientific process."
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,421
10,723
136
Leftists discover leftist issue. Amazing!

All the Berkeley people are doing are verifying that the temperature record has not been fabricated, though one has to wonder where they get their data from.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
I dont know many who are denying climate change. What they are denying is we have a significant enough contribution to that warrants draconian govt regulation and taxation.
 

ConstipatedVigilante

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2006
7,670
1
0
Let's let them analyze the other 98% of the data before we come to any conclusions.

Edit: Just to placate the foaming-at-the-mouth leftists, I'm not a crazy anti-global warming nut. I think it's real, although like these scientists I do not put any faith in the government-run studies on the subject. There are simply too many monetary and political interests involved.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126

Funny thing about that first link... Here's an unquoted part of the same article I posted:

But conservative critics who had expected Muller's group to demonstrate a bias among climate scientists reacted with disappointment.

Anthony Watts, a former TV weatherman who runs the skeptic blog WattsUpWithThat.com, wrote that the Berkeley group is releasing results that are not "fully working and debugged yet.... But, post normal science political theater is like that."

Over the years, Muller has praised Watts' efforts to show that weather station data in official studies are untrustworthy because of the urban heat island effect, which boosts temperature readings in areas that have been encroached on by cities and suburbs.

But leading climatologists said the previous studies accounted for the effect, and the Berkeley analysis is confirming that, Muller acknowledged. "Did such poor station quality exaggerate the estimates of global warming?" he asked in his written testimony. "We've studied this issue, and our preliminary answer is no."
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Duh...

Now, more importantly:
1. Is most of it caused by man? Or is it natural?
2. What will be the end result? How severe will the consequences be?
3. If it is caused by man and it will cause severe consequences, what can we do, within reason and without destroying our economy, to slow it down?
4. How do we get Brazil, Russia, India, China and other developing countries to abide by what we discovered in 3?

he cautioned that the initial assessment is based on only 2%of the 1.6 billion measurements that will eventually be examined
Stay tuned...
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Let's let them analyze the other 98% of the data before we come to any conclusions.

Edit: Just to placate the foaming-at-the-mouth leftists, I'm not a crazy anti-global warming nut. I think it's real, although like these scientists I do not put any faith in the government-run studies on the subject. There are simply too many monetary and political interests involved.

I agree. Plus the US is cleaner now than it has been in decades. We need to look at China and Russia who basicly destroying their land.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
198
106
It does not take a brain scientist to see that something has changed in our climate over the past 30+ years.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, it used to rain all the time. The summer heat would cause thermal showers on an almost daily basis in June, July and August.

But now, we rarely get rain. Texas has been in a drought condition for almost 10 years. In 2009 Lake Travis in Texas went dry. Other parts of the south have to ration water. During 2009 and 2010, major cities in the south came within days of running out of water. In 2002 and 2003 dallas texas had to ration water. Parts of southeast Texas rainfall is 20 - 40 inches below normal for the past 2 or 3 years. We have lakes - lake sam rayburn - that have been 8 - 10 feet low for 2 years now.

We have gone from plenty of rain, to almost nothing in about 20 years.

Do people "really" need some kind of study to see that our climate is changing?
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
I dont know many who are denying climate change. What they are denying is we have a significant enough contribution to that warrants draconian govt regulation and taxation.
That and whether or not it's actually a problem that cannot be adapted to. Just by driving across the US, one will notice that regions have wildly different climates but the locals are adjusted to the local climate.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Yeah yllus, we all know that Berkeley is a hotbed of rightwing activism, too bad you didn't include this quote from the L.A. Times.

" Thorne said scientists who contributed to the three main studies — by NOAA, NASA and Britain’s Met Office — welcome new peer-reviewed research. But he said the Berkeley team had been “seriously compromised” by publicizing its work before publishing any vetted papers.

- Peter Thorne, National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C."

No one that i know doesn't think climate change isn't happening, what they disagree with is either Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Change or to a lesser extent just Anthropogenic Climate Change.


Here you go Texashiker, while this story deals with Australia it applies equally as well to Texas. The change is due to ENSO and SOI.
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2011/04/neville-nicholls-on-australias-extreme.html
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
It does not take a brain scientist to see that something has changed in our climate over the past 30+ years.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, it used to rain all the time. The summer heat would cause thermal showers on an almost daily basis in June, July and August.

But now, we rarely get rain. Texas has been in a drought condition for almost 10 years. In 2009 Lake Travis in Texas went dry. Other parts of the south have to ration water. During 2009 and 2010, major cities in the south came within days of running out of water. In 2002 and 2003 dallas texas had to ration water. Parts of southeast Texas rainfall is 20 - 40 inches below normal for the past 2 or 3 years. We have lakes - lake sam rayburn - that have been 8 - 10 feet low for 2 years now.

We have gone from plenty of rain, to almost nothing in about 20 years.

Do people "really" need some kind of study to see that our climate is changing?



Sadly yes.

I don't care if we can change it good/bad; my thing is you don't sh1t where you eat/sleep. i.e. reducing pollution and exploring new energy sources (not middle east) are a good thing not bad.
Playing the oil/gas/etc… is cheap enough so use it will only lead us to even worse things then what happened in the 70’s. We need to have options and we are limiting ourselves.

If we use climate change to get people off their azz to do this then fine. But letting companies keep using up our limited resources based on its fine for now is not good.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
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ya lets discuss it till global famines set in...
There have been many famines in the past and there will be many in the future...and there's not a damn thing we can do about it....except perhaps...blame anthropogenic global warming. It just feels so damn right!
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
This won't matter as the issue is now political. Those who have made up their minds will not be swayed by any amount of science any more than an ID'r will be coming over to the evolution side.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
It does not take a brain scientist to see that something has changed in our climate over the past 30+ years.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, it used to rain all the time. The summer heat would cause thermal showers on an almost daily basis in June, July and August.

But now, we rarely get rain. Texas has been in a drought condition for almost 10 years. In 2009 Lake Travis in Texas went dry. Other parts of the south have to ration water. During 2009 and 2010, major cities in the south came within days of running out of water. In 2002 and 2003 dallas texas had to ration water. Parts of southeast Texas rainfall is 20 - 40 inches below normal for the past 2 or 3 years. We have lakes - lake sam rayburn - that have been 8 - 10 feet low for 2 years now.

We have gone from plenty of rain, to almost nothing in about 20 years.

Do people "really" need some kind of study to see that our climate is changing?

That kind of regional change is much too complicated in what could cause it, to attribute to any man-made effects on global climate.

To evaluate global climate, it's important to look everywhere. And there's plenty of evidence of that kind to say there's a relationship between global warming and human development over the past 100 years.

It isn't possible to say what that means for sure, the system is way too complex. But it seems prudent to reduce what effects we are having as much as possible as soon as possible, because some possible outcomes are very dire.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
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Do we still have a hole in the ozone layer?
Still shrinking.
http://www.theozonehole.com/2010ozone.htm

ozoneh3.jpg
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Nah, deviation from the mean. If you ask a conservative anything, it's always deviation from the mean. If I stab you in the face and you die, your death is deviation from the mean. If I wait 3 days, you'll come back to life and that is called regression to the mean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_to_mean
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_friday


That's good news ! I guess conservatives will stop complaining about budget deficits and unemployment with Obama too.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
There have been many famines in the past and there will be many in the future...and there's not a damn thing we can do about it....except perhaps...blame anthropogenic global warming. It just feels so damn right!

Because the black plague happened once it would mean another would be ok right?


Hold your breath till your blue in the face...
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
OOOH! Their next discovery, Sun rises in the East due to rotation of the Earth? Early Springs and late Falls have added a month to my growing season, this year I have snow on the ground(34 degrees) instead of 70 degrees. Oh no!