Climate Change: tipping point

[MicroChrome]

Bushes pseudo scientific team is almost laughable. Sad but true... Same routine, Nothing is wrong? Don?t worry about it answers. Keep your eyes closed and your mouth shut and don't make any waves...


Link


Sorry! Fixed!

I guess if bush really can communicate with god then maybe he can save us all from floods and droughts... :disgust:

 

[shoegazer]

edit....

 

[K1052]

The treaty is useless anyway since China and India are not included.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: K1052
The treaty is useless anyway since China and India are not included.

Neither is Russia. Even though they signed it, they are considered a developing country and don't have to really cut any emissions.

 

[shoegazer]

carbon dioxide stays in the atmosphere for around 150 years. a significant part of the CO2 in the atmosphere now is the United States' fault, not china or india because they are just now becoming industrial nations.

they will become major greenhouse gas producers, but if the kyoto protocol were to limit them to below 1990 levels like every other country, it would severely impact their economic growth becuase they weren't nearly as developed back then as they are now.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: K1052
The treaty is useless anyway since China and India are not included.

It's worthless because americans are not in it, lets face it, you must be inherently stupid if you can continue to say things like that. YOU RELEASE 25% OF _ALL_ GREENHOUSE GASSES RELEASED; ALL OVER THE WORLD!!! You're the friggin idiots.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: shoegazer
carbon dioxide stays in the atmosphere for around 150 years. a significant part of the CO2 in the atmosphere now is the United States' fault, not china or india because they are just now becoming industrial nations.

however, they will become major greenhouse gas producers, but if the kyoto protocol were to limit them to below 1990 levels like every other country, it would severely impact their economic growth becuase they weren't nearly as developed back then as they are now.

And letting them each spew out FAR more emissions than the US for an unlimited period of time solves the problem how?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: K1052
The treaty is useless anyway since China and India are not included.

It's worthless because americans are not in it, lets face it, you must be inherently stupid if you can continue to say things like that. YOU RELEASE 25% OF _ALL_ GREENHOUSE GASSES RELEASED; ALL OVER THE WORLD!!! You're the friggin idiots.

Give China and India time, they will put us to shame.

 

[shoegazer]

well, they aren't putting out far more emissions than the US. as forsythe said, the US is putting out 25% of greenhouse gasses.

but, yes, you're right in that China and India are are not binded to cutting emissions in the future because they are non-annex 1 counties in the protocol. the idea is that later on they will ratify the protocol as annex 1 countries and cut emissions.

of course, with the wealthiest and most polluting nation not signing on to the protocol, it makes China and Indias future ratification much less likely.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: K1052
The treaty is useless anyway since China and India are not included.

It's worthless because americans are not in it, lets face it, you must be inherently stupid if you can continue to say things like that. YOU RELEASE 25% OF _ALL_ GREENHOUSE GASSES RELEASED; ALL OVER THE WORLD!!! You're the friggin idiots.

Give China and India time, they will put us to shame.

And that somehow makes you irrensponsible for polluting the earth? The fact that you're barely doing anything to promote less polluting cars does not help, at all.

 

[Forsythe]

And they'll jus tuse the argument, that if they don't havce to, we don't have to!

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: shoegazer
well, they aren't putting out far more emissions than the US. as forsythe said, the US is putting out 25% of greenhouse gasses.

but, yes, you're right in that China and India are are not binded to cutting emissions in the future because they are non-annex 1 counties in the protocol. the idea is that later on they will ratify the protocol as annex 1 countries and cut emissions.

of course, with the wealthiest and most polluting nation not signing on to the protocol, it makes China and Indias future ratification much less likely.

The rate of increse in both China and India is what, about 5 time what the US's rate of increase is?

I only see that ratio increasing in the near future.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: K1052
The treaty is useless anyway since China and India are not included.

It's worthless because americans are not in it, lets face it, you must be inherently stupid if you can continue to say things like that. YOU RELEASE 25% OF _ALL_ GREENHOUSE GASSES RELEASED; ALL OVER THE WORLD!!! You're the friggin idiots.

Give China and India time, they will put us to shame.

And that somehow makes you irrensponsible for polluting the earth? The fact that you're barely doing anything to promote less polluting cars does not help, at all.

The bulk of the output comes from our coal fired generating plants.

BTW: I support a growing nuclear power industry and further research into solar and tidal power generation as well as extensive R&D on fusion power.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: K1052
The treaty is useless anyway since China and India are not included.

It's worthless because americans are not in it, lets face it, you must be inherently stupid if you can continue to say things like that. YOU RELEASE 25% OF _ALL_ GREENHOUSE GASSES RELEASED; ALL OVER THE WORLD!!! You're the friggin idiots.

Go away you piece of european trash. Guess what, we emit the most greenhouse gases because we are the most productive. Productivity takes ENERGY. You lazy europeans wouldn't know about that with your 35 hour work week.

 

[piasabird]

Ratifying the treaty is one thing, actually meeting the mandates is a completely separate issue. I doubt most countries can meet the mandate.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: K1052
The treaty is useless anyway since China and India are not included.

It's worthless because americans are not in it, lets face it, you must be inherently stupid if you can continue to say things like that. YOU RELEASE 25% OF _ALL_ GREENHOUSE GASSES RELEASED; ALL OVER THE WORLD!!! You're the friggin idiots.

Go away you piece of european trash. Guess what, we emit the most greenhouse gases because we are the most productive. Productivity takes ENERGY. You lazy europeans wouldn't know about that with your 35 hour work week.

lol.
You emit the most greenhouse gasses because you have no self control regarding gas use. Your gass prices are so low because you don't want to put taxes on them to save the environment. You're using so goddamned much coal because it would be against the ideoly you have to try to make people save power, like every country in europe and the rest of the world does.
And i'm not even gonna comment on your thought about europeans being lazy. Because that's just stupid. Being forced to work 2 jobs because you have an insane minimum pay of, what is it, 6$? Is not "not being lazy", that's more like slavery. And being productive to you means you have to force totally unneeded things on the market. That is the falldown of capitalism, the thought of the untameable market. How long will you imagine that to last?
The average European is as little lazy as the average American.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Ratifying the treaty is one thing, actually meeting the mandates is a completely separate issue. I doubt most countries can meet the mandate.

Every country IS able to, even america. If you're too stupid. You're able to buy emmision from poor countries.
It's about brain and will, everything is possible if you have intelligence.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: shoegazer
carbon dioxide stays in the atmosphere for around 150 years. a significant part of the CO2 in the atmosphere now is the United States' fault, not china or india because they are just now becoming industrial nations.

they will become major greenhouse gas producers, but if the kyoto protocol were to limit them to below 1990 levels like every other country, it would severely impact their economic growth becuase they weren't nearly as developed back then as they are now.

Oh I see so it is ok to screw over the United States and other developed countries but not big bad China and India? Are we being serious about the issue or trying to play political games? If you are serious then everybody should be included because it doesnt matter who puts it into the atmosphere as it is bad.

Edit: btw I want these greens to explain how we had the last few greenhouse effects with no human activity involved.

 

[irwincur]

The Kyoto treaty was nothing more than a European attempt at crippling the US economy to actually give theirs a fighting chance. It was biased, colored, and completely unfair from the start.

Not to mention that the great majority of climatologists still do not buy into the global warming hype. When anything close to half of them jump aboard I will start considering it. To this point, it has been nothing but a great funding vehicle for varied crack pot scientists and liberal interest groups.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm getting mine while I can and fvck you and the rest of the world.

 

[chcarnage]

There is climate change independent from human influence.
During the last century, global warming was 0,4-0,8 °C.
Different IPPC researches estimate that the CO2 concentration will reach between 540 and 980 ppm in 2100.
The current CO2 concentration of 370 ppm is the highest known to mankind. It hasn't exceeded 310 ppm in the last 400'000 years.
Global warming occurs mainly on the continents and not the oceans.
I personally conclude that man-made influence exists. (The named facts are from PDF slides from my university, citing the IPCC).

The weak impact of Kyoto is no argument against it as there is no alternative.
Neither is the absence of the world's greatest polluter or blurred argumentation with future polluters an excuse for ignoring the problem.
In contrast Kyoto could be a start for further measures with more contractants (it is limited to 2012). We're definitely dealing with a long term issue here.

It's kind of ironic how the US and Europe changed their roles in environmental politics since the banning of CFCs.

 

[Moonbeam]

I did a survey and 99 and four one hundredths of chimps are not worried about climate change.

 

[Jmman]

You know, the person credited with coming up with the concept of manmade global warming said himself that Kyoto would make almost no difference in future climate change, even if everyone signed it and met the emission targets. He said that to make a difference, we would need to have 30 Kyoto treaties. Do you guys realize what that would mean in practical terms? We would all be living like the Amish. Are you ready to give up cars, electricity, and the like? Not me......:laugh:

 

[NeenerNeener]

Even if the Greenhouse effect is a farce, the U.S. needs to become less dependent on fossil fuels anyway for economic and national security reasons. Either way, there is going to be a paradigm shift in the US eventually, whether people want to acknowledge the problem now or ignore it.

It's funny to read stuff like, "we emit the most CO2, because we're the most productive.", because it's a half truth. Sure, production takes energy, but a lot of CO2 comes from people just lollygagging around in bug trucks (i'm guilty as well). How productive is that? Plus, fifty years ago before all these environmental regulations, we polluted much more per capita. Does that mean we were more productive per capita then? Don't think so.

Our ability to remain productive is already being stunted by increasing scarcity of refined fuel sources and increase in prices. The sooner we shed this monkey off our back, the better off the US will be in the future.

Plus, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Energy companies spend mucho dinero to make us believe that alternative energy is unfeasible.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: K1052
The treaty is useless anyway since China and India are not included.

It's worthless because americans are not in it, lets face it, you must be inherently stupid if you can continue to say things like that. YOU RELEASE 25% OF _ALL_ GREENHOUSE GASSES RELEASED; ALL OVER THE WORLD!!! You're the friggin idiots.

Go away you piece of european trash. Guess what, we emit the most greenhouse gases because we are the most productive. Productivity takes ENERGY. You lazy europeans wouldn't know about that with your 35 hour work week.

Go educate yourself you arrogant piece of american ignorance. You have 30% higher per capita GDP while producing 100% more CO2 than Germany for instance. The problem is not your awesome productivity but your ridiculous inefficiency

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