Climate change has a firm grip

[ProfJohn]

This is the second cold winter in a year.

I guess they GW are getting worried that their claims are starting to look bad and coming up with stuff like this in order to stay relevant.

Someone should remind them at GW ranks dead last when it comes to peoples worries.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Why deny that humans have an effect on the climate? What is to be gained by plugging your ears and shouting "lalalalala" on the subject?

Even to a complete layman, how can you deny that digging gigatons (such a cool word) of carbon out of the ground and spraying it into the air wont have some sort of adverse affect?

I guess it's that thing where you just really don't want to admit that you're wrong about something, even in the face of massive amounts of evidence to the contrary..

I still don't get it. I mean it's not like quantum physics or something, where everything is really esoteric and counter-intuitive... putting carbon in the atmosphere makes it warmer.. humans are putting carbon in the atmosphere.. Not complicated at all.

Who is denying we dont have an effect? The debate has moved past that long ago. The debate is whether or not it is significant, or significant enough that curtailing our standard of living will make any measureable difference.

Or be too costly in economic terms.

I.E. in a cost/benefit analysis to the benefits outweigh the costs of becoming "green"? Long term they may, but there is no proof that we must take drastic measures now to do it. "Green" tech is simply too expensive in it's current form. Sure we can all do things to help become more "green" and waste less, but when it starts costing more to do the same thing just in a "green" way I have issues with that.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Why deny that humans have an effect on the climate? What is to be gained by plugging your ears and shouting "lalalalala" on the subject?

Even to a complete layman, how can you deny that digging gigatons (such a cool word) of carbon out of the ground and spraying it into the air wont have some sort of adverse affect?

I guess it's that thing where you just really don't want to admit that you're wrong about something, even in the face of massive amounts of evidence to the contrary..

I still don't get it. I mean it's not like quantum physics or something, where everything is really esoteric and counter-intuitive... putting carbon in the atmosphere makes it warmer.. humans are putting carbon in the atmosphere.. Not complicated at all.

Who is denying we dont have an effect? The debate has moved past that long ago. The debate is whether or not it is significant, or significant enough that curtailing our standard of living will make any measureable difference.

Or be too costly in economic terms.

I.E. in a cost/benefit analysis to the benefits outweigh the costs of becoming "green"? Long term they may, but there is no proof that we must take drastic measures now to do it. "Green" tech is simply too expensive in it's current form. Sure we can all do things to help become more "green" and waste less, but when it starts costing more to do the same thing just in a "green" way I have issues with that.

Agreed. Everyone always does a CB analysis when making decisions whther it is a formal process or not. It is very important we not waste or pollute needlessly, but at the same time we cannot afford to go broke trying to do something simply because we think it will save the environment.

All the green tech in the world will not eliminate the need for coal and nuke electrical plants. In fact, the demand for these types of plants may very well increase as the percentage of vehicles using electricity rise. I doubt wind and solar will be able to keep up with the demand growth.

Of course, teh argument to that is use less. Well, I don't want to. I like hot showers in the morning and a cool house in the summer. I want to have Internet access and HDTV and all the other comforts and advantages of a modern technological life. And just as importantly, I want those same things for people everywhere.

That means an enormous increase in electrical and other power production facilities. Green is good, and will continue to grow in importance, but it will be a very long time before cheap coal and oil go away in any meaningful way.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dphantom
The last few winters and summers here are reminding me more and more of what I grew up in in the 60's/70's when the worry was over a new Ice Age. Anecdotal of course, but last weekend I was in the UP of Michigan and we had temps in the -20 to -25 F range every night with highs 0 - 5 F. Pretty normal 20-40 years ago. Not at all like it was in the 80's/90's. Seems like we're close to being back where we were.

The last two winters in MN have been brutal and the Summers mild.

This winter is for sure worse than last winter.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dphantom
The last few winters and summers here are reminding me more and more of what I grew up in in the 60's/70's when the worry was over a new Ice Age. Anecdotal of course, but last weekend I was in the UP of Michigan and we had temps in the -20 to -25 F range every night with highs 0 - 5 F. Pretty normal 20-40 years ago. Not at all like it was in the 80's/90's. Seems like we're close to being back where we were.

The last two winters in MN have been brutal and the Summers mild.

This winter is for sure worse than last winter.

Oh yeah my electrical bill shows the avg temp for the month. December was 3 degree's colder than 07 which is insane. Not only was last winter brutally cold but it was brutally long. We had lakes up north still covered with ice on the fishing opening in the middle of May. I hope we dont have that same problem this year. Kills tourism and makes for a mild Summer.

btw MN wont get above 32F for the entire month of Jan. I believe that is the first time that has ever happened since records have been kept.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Why deny that humans have an effect on the climate? What is to be gained by plugging your ears and shouting "lalalalala" on the subject?

Even to a complete layman, how can you deny that digging gigatons (such a cool word) of carbon out of the ground and spraying it into the air wont have some sort of adverse affect?

I guess it's that thing where you just really don't want to admit that you're wrong about something, even in the face of massive amounts of evidence to the contrary..

I still don't get it. I mean it's not like quantum physics or something, where everything is really esoteric and counter-intuitive... putting carbon in the atmosphere makes it warmer.. humans are putting carbon in the atmosphere.. Not complicated at all.

Who is denying we dont have an effect? The debate has moved past that long ago. The debate is whether or not it is significant, or significant enough that curtailing our standard of living will make any measureable difference.

Or be too costly in economic terms.

I.E. in a cost/benefit analysis to the benefits outweigh the costs of becoming "green"? Long term they may, but there is no proof that we must take drastic measures now to do it. "Green" tech is simply too expensive in it's current form. Sure we can all do things to help become more "green" and waste less, but when it starts costing more to do the same thing just in a "green" way I have issues with that.

Agreed. Everyone always does a CB analysis when making decisions whther it is a formal process or not. It is very important we not waste or pollute needlessly, but at the same time we cannot afford to go broke trying to do something simply because we think it will save the environment.

All the green tech in the world will not eliminate the need for coal and nuke electrical plants. In fact, the demand for these types of plants may very well increase as the percentage of vehicles using electricity rise. I doubt wind and solar will be able to keep up with the demand growth.

Of course, teh argument to that is use less. Well, I don't want to. I like hot showers in the morning and a cool house in the summer. I want to have Internet access and HDTV and all the other comforts and advantages of a modern technological life. And just as importantly, I want those same things for people everywhere.

That means an enormous increase in electrical and other power production facilities. Green is good, and will continue to grow in importance, but it will be a very long time before cheap coal and oil go away in any meaningful way.

Exactly. If I have a choice in buying the exact same product, except only difference being one is "green" I will buy the "green" version. I may even be willing to pay a little bit more for it, but not more than $5 (depending on what it is).

I'm more worried about overpopulation and Earth's carrying capacity for humanity than about GW. Overpopulation has much more immediate effects, among many other things. GW is something we need to think about, and work towards being more ecologically friendly without a doubt. With that being said, there are many more immediate concerns that should take precedence IMO.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Exactly. If I have a choice in buying the exact same product, except only difference being one is "green" I will buy the "green" version. I may even be willing to pay a little bit more for it, but not more than $5 (depending on what it is).

I'm more worried about overpopulation and Earth's carrying capacity for humanity than about GW. Overpopulation has much more immediate effects, among many other things. GW is something we need to think about, and work towards being more ecologically friendly without a doubt. With that being said, there are many more immediate concerns that should take precedence IMO.[/quote]

And even population growth is not an end game as we have enormous, virtually limitless sources of raw materials available to us if and when we want them. And that is in space.