Climate change data from EPA

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,715
6,266
126
Of course they are. Anyone who doesn't Deny is part of the Conspiracy, all 5.x Billion of us!
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
You do know that the EPA used the discredited IPCC AR4 for their greenhouse gas findings? According to the EPAs own regulations they are required by law to do their own research and conduct their own studies? That so far they have failed to conduct those studies? Yes I know they have pretty pictures and a slick publication, but it doesn't make up for solid science. The antonym of skeptic is gullible.
Compare these graphs of Arctic sea ice extent to the dated ones that the EPA used.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,715
6,266
126
You do know that the EPA used the discredited IPCC AR4 for their greenhouse gas findings? According to the EPAs own regulations they are required by law to do their own research and conduct their own studies? That so far they have failed to conduct those studies? Yes I know they have pretty pictures and a slick publication, but it doesn't make up for solid science. The antonym of skeptic is gullible.
Compare these graphs of Arctic sea ice extent to the dated ones that the EPA used.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/

You do know that you're a Nutter and that the IPCC Data has not been discredited?
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Just because the Chicago Climate Exchange financing was created while Obama served on the board of the Joyce foundation and with members of Golden Sachs providing the money, plus Al Gore being a major shareholder and the company will be worth trillions if they can get cap & trade passed, which cannot pass if global warming isn't a life threatening issue, who would think there was a conspiracy with that kind of evidence ?
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
I took a look at the first chart of the first link, and once again they begin their comparison by starting at the biggest cooling period in recent history. Yes it was colder in 1979.

Hooray! I am so convinced!
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
I took a look at the first chart of the first link, and once again they begin their comparison by starting at the biggest cooling period in recent history. Yes it was colder in 1979.

Hooray! I am so convinced!

Although i'm skeptical the whole Catastrophic Global Warming dogma the reason they use 1979 is that's the year the monitoring satellites were launched. The newest satellite launched this year will be able to measure ice thickness.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,715
6,266
126
I don't know if he's right about the EPA having to do it's own research. Is he correct?

I really can't say on that point. Wouldn't be surprised if they have some obligation to do so for specific reasons, such as implementing(or Recommending to Government) Regulation/Laws/Enforcement on their own. I doubt they have to rely on only their own Research for everything though.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
You do know that you're a Nutter and that the IPCC Data has not been discredited?

Well there's the gross errors they made with glaciers, Amazon rain forests, Antarctic ice extent, false claims of peer reviewed science (1/3 of the claims in AR4 were NOT peer reviewed), gray papers from Greenpeace and the World Wildlife Federation, the Stern review fiasco....etc. It's not discredited ? Only to a true believer.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
In other news, the CDC says the H1N1 virus is still a major threat to Americans.
 

dammitgibs

Senior member
Jan 31, 2009
477
0
0
The EPA already declared that CO2 was a pollutant so I'm not sure anyone would hold them to be unbiased.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
monovillage you may want to get a clue

Arctic Sea Ice and Arctic Land ice are 2 different things

as for your other 'proof'...oh nevermind, it's pointless with you
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Of course they are. Anyone who doesn't Deny is part of the Conspiracy, all 5.x Billion of us!

It's still not as bad as creationists. Those dinosaur bones are put there by god to test your faith. Yes, even god is part of that conspiracy to make you think the earth is really really old.


Although i'm skeptical the whole Catastrophic Global Warming dogma the reason they use 1979 is that's the year the monitoring satellites were launched. The newest satellite launched this year will be able to measure ice thickness.
They've been measuring this for years. The new satellites are just more accurate.
http://westcoastclimateequity.org/2010/04/14/arctic-sea-ice-thickness-important-update/

Arctic-Sea-Ice-Change-2009-to-20101.png
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
It's still not as bad as creationists. Those dinosaur bones are put there by god to test your faith. Yes, even god is part of that conspiracy to make you think the earth is really really old.



They've been measuring this for years. The new satellites are just more accurate.
http://westcoastclimateequity.org/2010/04/14/arctic-sea-ice-thickness-important-update/

Arctic-Sea-Ice-Change-2009-to-20101.png

From your own link.

"**********************************************************************

There’s another important story to report: The European CryoSat 2 satellite was successfully launched last week and will be providing more valuable information about the thickness of the Arctic sea ice. By getting accurate data on this aspect of the melting Arctic, we can more accurately estimate when the summer ice may be expected to disappear. We can’t do this just by looking at the visible extent of the thinning surface ice."

You make it sound as if "The new satellites are just more accurate." is a bad thing.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
monovillage you may want to get a clue

Arctic Sea Ice and Arctic Land ice are 2 different things

as for your other 'proof'...oh nevermind, it's pointless with you

NeoV - I was referring to the EPA's Arctic sea ice .pdf, they didn't have any mention in the .pdf of Arctic land ice. It's ok to comment, but you should at least read what it is we're discussing first, you'll find it easier to understand it that way. You'll notice that although it's April of 2010 that their pdf showing Arctic sea ice extent stopped in 2007. Do you think that just maybe it's because in 2007 the sea ice extent was at it's lowest level in almost 30 whole years of satellite coverage while 2010 is back to average levels?

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,630
6,721
126
People Who Deny Reality
By Charles Shahar Posted: 11.06.2006

We all create certain safe and predictable ways of dealing with the world that involve some slanting of reality. In order to cope with life, and make it more tolerable, we may distort, embellish or ignore certain aspects of our environment, our feelings, or our memories. There are things we just don't want to deal with because they are too painful, we fear them, or because we may get overwhelmed by such information.

Why do people distort reality while awake? The answer is to shield the ego from disturbing information. This is a desirable and useful feature of human adaptation. When such a mechanism fails, the normal psychic boundaries, which maintain the integrity of the ego, collapse, and so does the personality of the individual. The result is often a breakdown in the form of psychosis or severe mental disturbance, such as schizophrenia. In a way, the unconscious is at the forefront of the schizophrenic's reality.

The use of psychic defenses is a normal strategy for coping with daily life. We use rationalizations to explain why we lost our job (our boss was intimidated by our abilities), or why we were nasty with our children (they deserved it). We will interpret something our spouse said to suit our needs without really listening to what they meant. We will deflect criticism of ourselves by getting testy and criticizing the person responsible. In all these cases we are not being honest with ourselves. Hopefully, we will eventually have insights about why we block reality, and what we fear to confront.

At what point is mental blocking a neurotic reaction? The answer has to do with how extremely a person detaches from reality because they feel threatened by it. The more threatening the world seems, the more anxiety they experience, and the more extreme their strategies to avoid dealing with it. Reality blocking can be considered neurotic when (a) the perception of reality is so distorted that it negatively influences one's daily functioning; (b) the person closes off to insights about themselves; and (c) they have unrealistic conceptions and expectations of others to the point where their relationships are harmed.

How does the mind deal with anything that is too fearful to confront? The mind is ingenious in this respect. Often times a person is not aware that they are actually distorting reality (it would defeat the purpose if they were). The manipulations of reality are usually subtle. A person can cling to an illusory world, perhaps for their entire lifetime, yet remain oblivious to the fact that their alternate portrayal of reality has no basis in truth, but is a result of their fear and insecurity. This is a frightening prospect, but many neurotics die ignorant of their attempts to block repressed conflicts and fears.

The defense mechanisms of the ego are remarkably resistant to conflicting information from reality-based sources. Every once in a while these psychic defenses are pierced by circumstances beyond the person's control, and the truth leaks into their consciousness. The person may then go into a psychological crisis, become hugely upset, experience anxiety, anger or shame as these feelings well to the surface. But these reactions are usually temporary, as the ego quickly redeploys and assumes a defensive posture.

In some cases, however, the truth will penetrate deeper, and the psychic walls will come crashing down. The result might be what is popularly known as a "nervous breakdown"; the ego will experience too much anxiety to function properly. Without these walls the person is vulnerable and "naked" to attack. The fractured ego will have to reassemble itself, but this time perhaps in a more reality-based fashion. Many people become more integrated after such a breakdown, and more in touch with their previously repressed feelings.

Situations that are particularly threatening will result in the ego feeling more vulnerable, and the defenses becoming more rigid. The personality may seem unreasonable or inflexible. This is a difficult aspect to grasp. Friends and family may shake their heads, and wonder, why doesn't this person get it when I tell them the truth about themselves: that they are causing others pain, that they are attracting to themselves everything they seek to avoid, or that they are selfish even though they think they are generous and noble? The fact is that such revelations will damage the self-concept of such people, whose self-esteem is usually fragile to begin with. These people just can't handle the truth.

This should not be difficult to understand. We can easily see faults in others, but it is much more difficult to face any unpleasantness in ourselves. We can be critical of others, dissect their personalities, offer advice about how they should change. But we may have a blind spot about our own deficiencies. How open are we to the reflections of others? Usually when the source is more benign we will tend to be more accepting. But there are some things we will refuse to face no matter what the source of information is.

Ego defenses are employed at different levels. A physical defense happens when you physically avoid the threatening object. Physical displacement is effective when you avoid people or places you find threatening. You may not call a friend who criticized you a few days ago; or avoid interacting with a work colleague because they make you feel inadequate. More extremely you may withdraw from the world, become a hermit, because you cannot deal with society's demands.

Some people simply run away from the world. They become loners. It is a lot safer not to deal with other personalities. One doesn't get challenged or tweaked. More importantly, one minimizes the chances of getting rejected or hurt.

Emotional ego defenses are subtler than physical defenses. These include:
(1) Repression: Pushing back emotions that are unacceptable to your ego. Blocking or denial of emotions such as anger, fear, frustration or dislike; or even love and compassion.
(2) Reaction-Formation: Reacting in ways opposite to what you really feel. For instance, you may feel resentment toward your child, but smother them with affection instead.
(3) Projection: Attributing unacceptable feelings to others, when in fact you feel these yourself.
(4) Displacement: Reacting in a certain way to someone, usually a safe target, when in fact you have such feelings about someone else.
(5) Regression: Experiencing feelings of an earlier developmental stage, and not responding to situations in an adult and responsible way.

Intellectual defenses are subtler yet.


(1) Mental Blocking: Refusing to consider certain thoughts, including blocking memories of past experiences.
(2) Minimization: Rationalizing away the source of the threat by minimizing its effects on you.
(3) Faulty Attribution: Attributing a certain cause to your distress that is unassociated with your feelings.
(4) Disassociation: Talking about something as if it didn't apply to you. Usually this can be noticed when a person does not “own” what they say by not including themselves in the description, and speaking about it in a more abstract way.
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,214
6
81
Having looked at the slideshow, I really like the slide early on with the powerplant belching this absolutely atrocious cloud of... water. So dramatic.

This doesn't mean I don't believe the Earth is warming and that we aren't responsible. This just means that I find such pictures amusing.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
It's still not as bad as creationists. Those dinosaur bones are put there by god to test your faith. Yes, even god is part of that conspiracy to make you think the earth is really really old.

Actually that isn't what creationist say at all. They have a different theory that could be possible if you stretch things just a bit. I watched some of their videos and much of the information they provide is based on science. I can't agree with everything they say, but they do make some good points . I was surprised , I thought they would just use bible quotes , but these were actual physicist and biologist at major universities using documented science.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/four-power-questions/four-power-questions