climate change, cloud formations and the CLOUD project at CERN.

[William Gaatjes]

Is there any news about the results of the CLOUD project ?

It has been awkwardly quiet since that start of the project. The last results showed that low altitude cloud formation is indeed triggered by cosmic rays.

http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/research/CLOUD-en.html

CLOUD – Cosmics Leaving OUtdoor Droplets
Cosmic rays and cloud formation

CLOUD is an experiment that uses a cloud chamber to study the possible link between galactic cosmic rays and cloud formation. Based at the Proton Synchrotron at CERN, this is the first time a high-energy physics accelerator has been used to study atmospheric and climate science; the results could greatly modify our understanding of clouds and climate.

Cosmic rays are charged particles that bombard the Earth's atmosphere from outer space. Studies suggest they may have an influence on the amount of cloud cover through the formation of new aerosols (tiny particles suspended in the air that seed cloud droplets). This is supported by satellite measurements, which show a possible correlation between cosmic-ray intensity and the amount of low cloud cover. Clouds exert a strong influence on the Earth’s energy balance; changes of only a few per cent have an important effect on the climate. Understanding the underlying microphysics in controlled laboratory conditions is a key to unravelling the connection between cosmic rays and clouds.

The CLOUD experiment involves an interdisciplinary team of scientists from 18 institutes in 9 countries, comprised of atmospheric physicists, solar physicists, and cosmic-ray and particle physicists. The PS provides an artificial source of ‘cosmic rays’ that simulates natural conditions as closely as possible. A beam of particles is sent into a reaction chamber and its effects on aerosol production are recorded and analysed.

The initial stage of the experiment uses a prototype detector, but the full CLOUD experiment will include an advanced cloud chamber and a reactor chamber, equipped with a wide range of external instrumentation to monitor and analyse their contents. The temperature and pressure conditions anywhere in the atmosphere can be re-created within the chambers, and all experimental conditions can be controlled and measured, including the ‘cosmic ray’ intensity and the contents of the chambers.

 

[ElFenix]

i love bacronyms

 

[Moonbeam]

As of 2006 the plan was for a 5 year construction phase which would put us mid 2011 and a three year data phase ending in 2014. I am not sure if that has been affected by delays in bringing the LHC on line. I think maybe 2 years possible there and already factored in if problems there were pre 2006.

 

[Moonbeam]

If you haven't seen this before, WG, you may find it interesting:

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/35693

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

We should have preliminary results later this year. I saw some data when the CLOUD chamber was calibrated and commissioned...after looking at that, there is little doubt that GCR directly affects cloud formation.

 

[William Gaatjes]

If you haven't seen this before, WG, you may find it interesting:

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/35693

I hope they do not do that. It is a waste of time.
CO2 is a polluting agent in large quantities but not an effect of earth warming with current concentrations or near future concentrations. As is any chemical it seems.

Balance...

 

[William Gaatjes]

We should have preliminary results later this year. I saw some data when the CLOUD chamber was calibrated and commissioned...after looking at that, there is little doubt that GCR directly affects cloud formation.

I can remember that. I am still hoping for solid evidence. Then finally all that research money for mmgw can be used for proper research. How to create electrical storage capacity similar or exceeding the energy output of carbohydrates. DOes not have to be electricity directly. Electricity can be a "by product".
Then finally we can go fully electric on a global scale. If there ever will be a global artificial gasoline production and market even more then now. Things will get worse. Technology levels will decline and progress of man kind will come to a halt. I am not going to prove it. Trust me in this one.

 

[ZaneNBK]

i love bacronyms

Well originally the project was titled "Cosmic Rays Alter Precipitation" but they quickly changed that.

 

[WHAMPOM]

For the three days following 9/11 with the planes grounded, the average global temperature jumped one degree and immediately dropped when they were allowed in the air again. Could your cosmic/cloud formation account for 1 percent of that effect?

 

[William Gaatjes]

For the three days following 9/11 with the planes grounded, the average global temperature jumped one degree and immediately dropped when they were allowed in the air again. Could your cosmic/cloud formation account for 1 percent of that effect?

I have read about that story. How are these temperatures measured ?
Was the inhibition of air traffic globally or only above the US ?

Where the measurements done in proximity to cities ? or at different altitudes globally at the same time as well ? Meaning in cities, at 100 feet above the ground, 1000 feet 1000 feet, etcetera. If these temperature measurements are not taken at the same time globally at the same heights, It is the rotation of the earth, the side facing the sun, magnetic field strength variations during the day that cause these effects that are seen by conclusions taken from wrong measurements. Ionosphere modulation. Solar activity during that time period while taking into account the travel time of the various particles ?

What was the weather during those 3 days when compared to other days ?
What was the tide of the sea's during that time ?

Could you please link the article where all of this is taken into account as well ? Because then i am seriously interested.
I have read about 0.3 degrees cause devastation yet in september 2001 the temperature of the earth increased with 1 degrees and no extreme effects where seen...


In all honesty , afcourse those planes have an effect. And i have heard that for the formation of clouds a seed is needed. And that the dust and co2 molecules in the exhauststreams of airplanes actually function as seed material. But the altitude of the clouds and the formation of the clouds is a very important factor what these clouds will do, cool the planet by working primary as a reflector of sunlight back into space and secondary as a reflector of IR back to the earth. Or working primary as a reflector as a reflector of IR back to the earth and secondary as a reflector of sunlight back into space. I think the magic lies in the ratio of primary and secondary effects of clouds and the strength of those effects.