Clean Power for my TV/Components

[aphex]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Without a good ground, you could spend a zillion bucks on outboard gear and still get crap power.
For really clean power, go Differential aka Balanced Power.
Balanced Power Conditioner From FURMAN SOUND
BTW..... DO NOT ADD an ADDITIONAL ground rod AWAY from the one that feeds the ground buss on the main circuit breaker panel. Having multiple paths to ground is unsafe and an NEC code violation.

Im sure its fantastic, but at over $1200 its only $150 less than my tv...

 

[KMurphy]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Without a good ground, you could spend a zillion bucks on outboard gear and still get crap power.
For really clean power, go Differential aka Balanced Power.
Balanced Power Conditioner From FURMAN SOUND
BTW..... DO NOT ADD an ADDITIONAL ground rod AWAY from the one that feeds the ground buss on the main circuit breaker panel. Having multiple paths to ground is unsafe and an NEC code violation.

That's essentially an isolation transformer with some eye candy on the cover. The product I linked to will provide better protection all the way around (it too isolates the load from the supply) and can keep voltage up during the brownouts the OP mentioned. This device has no energy storage which means voltage sags are seen throught it. The original poster doesn't need the other "features" of the Furman device for his home electronics.

 

[aphex]

Calling an electrician tommorow... Circuit Breaker just tripped 5 times in an hour.

 

[Meractik]

what you need is a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) one with what they call AVR which stands for automatic voltage regulation.. APC is a great company to obtain these UPS's from.. their products are top knotch quality and gaurantee the life of your electronics you connect to them or they will reimburse you should something die from lightening storms or any other reason while connected to their product... they are truely great but since you have poor wiring make sure whatever you buy that you get something with AVR.


Im selling one in my for sale thread... they are real heavy so it would cost a boat load to ship unles you travel or happen to live near me.. but you can use it for reference for one you might want to buy.

heres the link to my thread.. - http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=45&threadid=1602684

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: Meractik
what you need is a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) one with what they call AVR which stands for automatic voltage regulation.. APC is a great company to obtain these UPS's from.. their products are top knotch quality and gaurantee the life of your electronics you connect to them or they will reimburse you should something die from lightening storms or any other reason while connected to their product... they are truely great but since you have poor wiring make sure whatever you buy that you get something with AVR.


Im selling one in my for sale thread... they are real heavy so it would cost a boat load to ship unles you travel or happen to live near me.. but you can use it for reference for one you might want to buy.

heres the link to my thread.. - http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=45&threadid=1602684

Stepped sine wave output. Not for electronics.

APC BackUPS RS 800 Specs

 

[Meractik]

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: Meractik
what you need is a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) one with what they call AVR which stands for automatic voltage regulation.. APC is a great company to obtain these UPS's from.. their products are top knotch quality and gaurantee the life of your electronics you connect to them or they will reimburse you should something die from lightening storms or any other reason while connected to their product... they are truely great but since you have poor wiring make sure whatever you buy that you get something with AVR.


Im selling one in my for sale thread... they are real heavy so it would cost a boat load to ship unles you travel or happen to live near me.. but you can use it for reference for one you might want to buy.

heres the link to my thread.. - http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=45&threadid=1602684

Stepped sine wave output. Not for electronics.

APC BackUPS RS 800 Specs

Care to explain what you mean... im not to versed in the physics end of electricity and such...?

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: Meractik

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: Meractik
what you need is a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) one with what they call AVR which stands for automatic voltage regulation.. APC is a great company to obtain these UPS's from.. their products are top knotch quality and gaurantee the life of your electronics you connect to them or they will reimburse you should something die from lightening storms or any other reason while connected to their product... they are truely great but since you have poor wiring make sure whatever you buy that you get something with AVR.


Im selling one in my for sale thread... they are real heavy so it would cost a boat load to ship unles you travel or happen to live near me.. but you can use it for reference for one you might want to buy.

heres the link to my thread.. - http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=45&threadid=1602684

Stepped sine wave output. Not for electronics.

APC BackUPS RS 800 Specs

Care to explain what you mean... im not to versed in the physics end of electricity and such...?

Sine wave is at the top in red. Approximated or stepped sine wave (also called square wave) in the green under it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Waveforms.png

Ideally, power should be supplied in a good sine wave form. As said above, the switching power supplies in computers are equipped to handling the less ideal stepped wave. Unfortunately, most electronics are not. How long it takes for this to damage your electronics depends on the parts in question. However, if you're going through the expense of buying a UPS for your electronics, there's little reason to buy one that is harmful to them.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Mutilator
Do your neighbors have similar power problems?

I'd say give something like a Cyberpower UPS w/AVR a try... one of the higher end ones.
BestBuy has them on sale right now - 1200VA w/AVR for $90.

I've heard of issues with bad power delivery while on battery. Get an APC.
I saw an INCREDIBLE deal @ compusa of all places but had no money for it:

a 15oova APC UPS for $150

i got a 1500VA APC UPS at CUSA for $100 AMIR last year

 

[Meractik]

but UPS's are marketed at selling for all electronics whether it be PC or stereo or TV etc... for the price you pay for them you telling me they're not able to cope with the difference in electrical signals and still realiably do what it is they are intended upon doing...(providing clean power and keeping surges, brown outs, and blackout spikes from effecting the attached equipment...?

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: Meractik
but UPS's are marketed at selling for all electronics whether it be PC or stereo or TV etc... for the price you pay for them you telling me they're not able to cope with the difference in electrical signals and still realiably do what it is they are intended upon doing...(providing clean power and keeping surges, brown outs, and blackout spikes from effecting the attached equipment...?

It's merely a matter of choosing the right tool for the job.

All APC SmartUPS that are 700VA and above output a true sine wave. You can even find some low end brands that do that. The CyberPower PR1500 outputs a true sine wave.

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/PR1500.asp

Heck, you can grab an APC SmartUPS on ebay for cheap. It may even be cheaper looking for one without batteries, and simply buying generic replacement batteries from a 3rd party.

 

[Rubycon]

[Monster Cable Salewoman Mode]

You definitely do NOT want a UPS. UPS' are made for computers not audio equipment. They will murk your sound and stress your transformers and stuff. You want a specialized transinductance coupled conditioner that protects your investment from ugly utility power. Your highs will sound cleaner, the bass tighter and the soundstage will define itself far better than you've ever experienced before running on untreated power.

[/Monster Cable Saleswoman Mode]

:laugh:

 

[Apex]

It's for a TV, not audio.

In general, smaller UPS's are fine for audio equipment, just not amplifiers (or high power receivers). If you want something for your amp, you merely have to buy one big enough to not hamper dynamics.

Here you go:

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SY1600K1600G

Might be a tad costly though.

 

[Rubycon]

Text

Gotta be seen to believe it.

A spinoff of this (pun not intended) scaled to hundreds of megawatts is in the works. Think of it like a big cap that little boys put on their cars so their amps don't get mushy on peaks with their crappy oriental electrical systems.

 

[AlienCraft]

Yet MORE subjective analysis of Balanced Power

Originally posted by: KMurphy

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Without a good ground, you could spend a zillion bucks on outboard gear and still get crap power.
For really clean power, go Differential aka Balanced Power.
Balanced Power Conditioner From FURMAN SOUND
BTW..... DO NOT ADD an ADDITIONAL ground rod AWAY from the one that feeds the ground buss on the main circuit breaker panel. Having multiple paths to ground is unsafe and an NEC code violation.

That's essentially an isolation transformer with some eye candy on the cover. The product I linked to will provide better protection all the way around (it too isolates the load from the supply) and can keep voltage up during the brownouts the OP mentioned. This device has no energy storage which means voltage sags are seen throught it. The original poster doesn't need the other "features" of the Furman device for his home electronics.

WRONG -O SUCKA..... It's a transformer with dual secondarys that provide Common Mode Rejection to the GROUND leg. IN ADDITION there is Spike Protection above and beyond simple MOV's.
For the uninitiated, 120 vAC comes in and is divided into a +60 vAC leg and a - 60 vAC referenced to EARTH GROUND. In this fashion, there is no neutral, but the 2 legs , measured to each other give 120 vAC and the Earth Ground is finally a drain for noise.
It also is the only thing that can combat 3rd order eddy currents generated by switching power supplies.
This gives MUCH better NOISE rejection than a UPS and I Have actually put this system on the road behind a 10KW APC UPS for the Band JOURNEY's Keyboard player. It is also in Ross Valory's "home studio" with excellent results. It is in an industrial complex in the East Bay of SF. There are auto shops, an HVAC and Machine shop , all generating much line noise UP THE NEUTRAL .
A 120v AC line , as commonly wired is a single ended system, just like a HIGH Impeadance Mic. Which as we all know is inherently more noisey than a LOW Impeadance ,BALANCED mic line. Typically HiZ systems can only be run a dozen or so feet quietly, while a LOW Z mic line can be run hundreds of feet with NO NOISE added.

This balanced system is quieter, and an oscilliscope will prove it, as will your ears.
This operates exactly the same way a balanced microphone line does. Noise is rejected and shunted to the ground leg due to the summing of the prime (line voltage)and rejection of the differenced (noise) voltage.
What is Balanced Power from Equi-Tech's website

What is balanced power?
When 120-volt AC power is balanced, one side of the circuit has +60 Volts to ground while the other has -60 Volts to ground. (Across the circuit, the usual 120 Volts is still present. Fig. 1) A European 230 Volt balanced power system has +115 Volts and -115 Volts to ground on the conductors.

Standard unbalanced AC power systems have a "hot" conductor and a "neutral" conductor. In the US, the "hot" conductor nominally has 120 Volts to ground and the "neutral" conductor has 0 Volts to ground. (Fig. 2) Europe has a similar system but with 230 volts on the "hot" and 0 Volts on the "neutral."

In a balanced power system, the voltages on the system's two output terminals are 180 degrees out of phase to each other with respect to ground. The system reference (ground) originates at the output center tap of an AC isolation transformer. In other words, the system's grounding reference (zero position) is located at the system's mean voltage differential or zero crossing point of the AC sinewave. This is a far more effective way to establish a reference potential for an AC system. The center tap is then grounded to Earth for electrical safety and for referencing shields.

There is never any voltage or current present on the ground reference in a balanced power system. Transient voltages and reactive currents which normally would appear on the neutral and ground wires are also out of phase and likewise, sum to zero at the ground reference thereby canceling out AC hum and noise.

A balanced AC Power system works the same way as a balanced audio circuit but with a higher amplitude. Both balanced audio and balanced AC incorporate phase cancellation or common mode rejection to eliminate noise.

Can I use a UPS or voltage regulation equipment with an Equi=Tech system?

Yes. However, make sure the Equi=Tech is plugged into the output of the UPS or line voltage regulator, never the other way around. Also, it important that the UPS or voltage regulation equipment has at least the same capacity as the Equi=Tech system.

Is there any danger to my equipment?

No. Particularly if the equipment in question is listed by Underwriters Laboratories or another recognized testing laboratory. The voltage and frequency applied to a power supply is exactly the same. Only the grounding reference is changed.

Though unbalanced (standard) ac power has a neutral conductor, UL standards specifically prohibit the use of a neutral as a grounding reference even though it has zero volts.

If the neutral side of a power supply were to be grounded, it would immediately cause actuation of the output breaker on the balanced power system thereby shutting the system down.

Even if the ground was lifted on the ac cord and the neutral side of the power supply was improperly grounded to the chassis, touching the chassis would result in a 5 millisecond shock at only 60 Volts before the system sensors detected excess ground leakage and shut the system down.

The electrical code requires redundant safety measures be incorporated into all balanced power systems protecting both equipment and personnel from harm.

All of these people and companies would not be buying snake oil.

More Balanced Power Testimony
Monster's Product, reviewed

Yet more subjective testimony on the JOYS of Balanced POWER vis a vis "Better A.C."


BTW, My initials aren't AC for nuthin'.

You want clean and quiet AC ? Get it BALANCED and Uninterrupted.

 

[aphex]

While i thank you all for the help, unfortunately there isnt anyway i will be able to afford anything over $200 right now.....

So, with my severly depleated budget, ive narrowed my options down to 2... I know they wont solve all my problems, only an electrician will, but i would like something to cut down on interference between components, specifically to improve my SD pic quality...

My two nominees;

MonsterCable HTS 3500 - $200 shipped
Belkin PF-40 - $170 shipped