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Clean Install not possible with Vista Upgrade Discs

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Aberforth, you're assuming too much. 🙂 Betanews states, "So far, Microsoft has not commented publicly on the situation."
 
Another perfect clean install for this approach -- removed my HD with XP from the system, started with a fresh empty second HD, and did a complete clean install from a Home Premium Upgrade DVD. Total time from switch-on to activated and ready to roll: 1hr, 20min 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Aberforth
This method is not legal. you are giving out tweaks and hacks.
Click to expand...
I don't see how it's illegal if:
a) You have a license for XP or 2000 that will be kept with that box, hence meeting the upgrade requirements.
b) You aren't modifying any Microsoft code or entering any false information.

Edit: Betanews.com seems to be offline or overloaded (late Tuesday night).
 
Something to consider if Microsoft denies the ability to do a clean Vista install with Vista Upgrade Disks:

There are zillions of Dell, HP, and other late-model, brand-name PCs out there with XP pre-installed. Many people whose PCs are only a year or two old are going to want to upgrade to Vista, rather than buying a new PC. There could be a LOT of people wanting to upgrade their PCs.

Here's what's going to happen:
LOTS of those people don't have factory XP Restore CDs. They either never got them, or they threw them away.
LOTS are going to be tempted by the lower-price Retail-box "Upgrade Editions" of Vista sitting on the shelf at Best Buy.

That's not a problem, until, a year later, their hard drive fails. This happens to APPROXIMATELY one in twenty hard drives each year. Give or take some fudge factor. So they go buy a new hard drive.

Now:
They've lost their hard drive and, likely all the data on it.
They can't use their Vista Upgrade DVD because they don't have XP installed.
They can't install XP because they don't have a factory XP Restore CD.
They can't use somebody else's "Generic" OEM or Retail-box XP Install CD because they can't Activate XP with the XP COA Key on the side of their PC.
Dell or HP may not want to give them or even sell them a factory XP Install CD, since the PC is long out of warranty.

So these poor folks are going to come to AnandTech Forums crying because:
They lost all their family photos.
Plus
They can't re-install Vista because they can't re-install XP.

Ouch!
 
Originally posted by: RaidenSix
Why couldn't Microsoft just have the installer also ask for a valid XP key instead before proceeding with the actual "upgrade".
Click to expand...

Are you serious? Microsoft needs to make more money by selling the full retail version over the upgrades.
Can't do that by just selling upgrade discs 😛


 
I hope everyone is old enough to understand the difference between Upgrade and Full. Upgrade Version (for Vista) means you are supposed to upgrade from an existing Windows OS to Vista. With the tweak mentioned above everyone will rush out and buy Vista Upgrade to do a clean install, you people think you are saving a lot of money- I suggest not to do this- MS may blacklist your vista product key or they might release a patch. MS has already said they don't allow clean install with Vista upgrade - so legally you are not supposed mess with Installation, its against their intension. The situation is not like Windows XP Installation anymore its different, so be careful. I request not mislead people into buying Upgrade Versions- at least put your disclaimer.
 
ok, so has anyone tried installing Norton's Ghost? Is it possible to simply create an image once you've done the install so you don't have to do a double install each time, just reimage?
 
This is my work around: Stick with XP for now and be happy. Eventually - since I'm sick of MS and Bill Gates - I'll consider a Mac, or Linux, and buy a computer to last me 2 or 3 years (no more upgrading to the latest and greatest). The only thing preventing me from doing that now is gaming, and that is becoming less and less interesting as time goes on.
Reading this thread has made me sick.
 
Originally posted by: Aberforth
I hope everyone is old enough to understand the difference between Upgrade and Full. Upgrade Version (for Vista) means you are supposed to upgrade from an existing Windows OS to Vista. With the tweak mentioned above everyone will rush out and buy Vista Upgrade to do a clean install, you people think you are saving a lot of money- I suggest not to do this- MS may blacklist your vista product key or they might release a patch. MS has already said they don't allow clean install with Vista upgrade - so legally you are not supposed mess with Installation, its against their intension. The situation is not like Windows XP Installation anymore its different, so be careful. I request not mislead people into buying Upgrade Versions- at least put your disclaimer.
Click to expand...

Well if you have xp pro x64 you have no choice but to do a clean install therefore it only makes sense that the ability is already included in the package. Yes I had to do a clean install today on my only x64 system but keep in mind that I also have the ultimate retail package. To be honest though I believe that there is really only one disk and multiple keys spread around in different packages.

 
Originally posted by: niggles
ok, so has anyone tried installing Norton's Ghost? Is it possible to simply create an image once you've done the install so you don't have to do a double install each time, just reimage?
Click to expand...
Why bother with ghost if you have business or ultimate...just use Complete PC backup. It works great and is one less piece of software you need to buy.
 
Originally posted by: Aberforth
I suggest not to do this- MS may blacklist your vista product key or they might release a patch. MS has already said they don't allow clean install with Vista upgrade - so legally you are not supposed mess with Installation, its against their intension. The situation is not like Windows XP Installation anymore its different, so be careful. I request not mislead people into buying Upgrade Versions- at least put your disclaimer.
Click to expand...
I'm concerned about Microsoft's ability to pick up the install method via WGA verification. It's POSSIBLE that, during the Vista install, the Key of the upgraded XP or 2000 is written somewhere. If so, it's conceivable that the Activation might be allowed, but subsequent WGA Verification might scan for that "previous Key" and realize that there WAS no "previous Key". Even if the current WGA tool doesn't check, MS could update the WGA tool at any time.

I'm still wondering something else:
Did anybody here VERIFY that you can only upgrade an ACTIVATED version of XP? We've all been assuming so. I thought I even read that as a fact. But is it? Obviously, an installed copy of Windows 2000 won't show as "Activated", since there was no Activation for 2000. Does Vista check for whether the XP has been Activated? Does it check to see if the Key for an already-installed Windows 2000 is one of those freely available on the Internet?
 
So what's the advantage of an upgrade over an OEM disk if I do a clean install? Being able to move it between computers? OEM Home Premium is 120; the Upgrade is 160.

Considering I'd have to buy a set for my HTPC and my PC, the OEM looks a lot better, all things considered. 80 bucks is 80 bucks.

How does Microsoft regard licensing with OEM machines that have been upgraded? For example, I have OEM copies of XP Pro and MCE 2K5. Let's say I format the drives and install Home Premium on each. Does that "free" the licenses on XP Pro and MCE if I wanted to build another HTPC, and say, a file server?

I know logistically speaking there's nothing to stop me from doing so except for a phone call to MS, but I'm curious as to what they consider kosher use of their IP.
 
Originally posted by: Aberforth
... MS has already said they don't allow clean install with Vista upgrade ...
Click to expand...

Quite the opposite is true, From here:

Notes:

If you are currently using Windows 2000 Professional or Windows XP Professional x64, you are eligible for an upgrade copy to a corresponding or better edition of Windows Vista, but a clean install is required.
Click to expand...

And on the front of the Upgrade box it states that a clean install may be required.

Up until now, everyone knew what a clean install meant. A clean install meant starting with bare hard drive (thus Xp required a media check to validate the upgrade.)

Microsoft is trying to change the meaning of a clean install to a hard drive with an OS, we will move your old files into another directory, then we will install Vista.

The hack doesn't solve anything anyway because it still requires two installs. When you pay for an upgrade license you fold the previous OS into the current license. Why they still want to treat it as two separate licenses when it comes to reinstalls is beyond me.
 
Does anyone happen to know if this would work with the upgrade you can buy from Microsoft online? (64-bit, I'm assuming they offer that online)
I wasn't sure whether they gave you an .ISO file or just an executable to run in XP.
My OEM copy from Amazon has been delayed nearly a month despite a very early preorder.
There's no way I'm installing Vista without formatting beforehand.

Thanks
 
Originally posted by: XMan
How does Microsoft regard licensing with OEM machines that have been upgraded? For example, I have OEM copies of XP Pro and MCE 2K5. Let's say I format the drives and install Home Premium on each. Does that "free" the licenses on XP Pro and MCE if I wanted to build another HTPC, and say, a file server?
Click to expand...


Per the terms of your original OEM EULA, the XP Pro and MCE can't legally be moved to other PCs, as the licenses for them are tied to the hardware that the software was originally installed on. This is regardless of if your Vista license was an OEM or an Upgrade license.
 
Originally posted by: loup garou
Originally posted by: niggles
ok, so has anyone tried installing Norton's Ghost? Is it possible to simply create an image once you've done the install so you don't have to do a double install each time, just reimage?
Click to expand...
Why bother with ghost if you have business or ultimate...just use Complete PC backup. It works great and is one less piece of software you need to buy.
Click to expand...

Ooh, nifty! So how do you restore it from the backup onto a blank new hard drive?

http://thelazyadmin.com/images/vista/vista-completepc-1.jpg

And dang, cancelled my Vista Upgrade Signed Limited Super Duper Awesome Cool edition too soon 😛
 
Microsoft has completely rewritten the backup program. Now, both file backup and complete imaging are available using Vista (different versions have different backup and imaging capabilities).
 
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