Classical Music: Why don't you listen?

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Why all the attacks on me? Why is it so hard to comprehend that you have to understand how to appreciate something? Understanding how to play and understanding how to appreciate are two different things. I'm simply saying that understanding to appreciate classical music takes a little more focus on listening, a sharper ear, and overall a well-tuned brain.

This doesn't make people who listen to classical music better. If you're saying you simply just don't "want" to appreciate it, that's your choice, but you are missing out on some great stuff.

Modern music suits most of today's people. They prefer to have the main melody slammed into their face as fast as possible...just like a drug. That makes it easier to listen to. Is there a problem with this? No, just simply not my main choice (although I listen to all music genres).

thats not what you said. you clearly said above that people don't like it becausee they don't understand or "get" it. here, let me quote you yet again ...

It's a fact. The reason people don't like classical, is because they don't understand it. Look at the music scores for a symphony composed during the romantic era. Compare that with anything from today's top40.

you say it's a fact thats why people dont like it. that is showing your elitist attitude. are there certain video games you don't like? do you really think it's because you don't "get" it or understand how to play it? no, it's because it's just not something you enjoy.

same exact thing with classical music. maybe if it was something i enjoyed listening to I would actually try to "understand" it as you say. but i don't enjoy it so i won't.

 

[6StringSamurai]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Why all the attacks on me? Why is it so hard to comprehend that you have to understand how to appreciate something? Understanding how to play and understanding how to appreciate are two different things. I'm simply saying that understanding to appreciate classical music takes a little more focus on listening, a sharper ear, and overall a well-tuned brain.

This doesn't make people who listen to classical music better. If you're saying you simply just don't "want" to appreciate it, that's your choice, but you are missing out on some great stuff.

Modern music suits most of today's people. They prefer to have the main melody slammed into their face as fast as possible...just like a drug. That makes it easier to listen to. Is there a problem with this? No, just simply not my main choice (although I listen to all music genres).

Purebeast: You claimed you didn't WANT to get it. That's fine with me if you don't even want to try.

Caviar, tea and crumptets with mum at "Ye Olde Country Club" that way ------------>

Be sure to tell the butler to expect the Jamesons at 6 for dinner, before the symphony.

 

[HombrePequeno]

I listen to it while doing my homework or to fall asleep. I also turn it on in the bathroom when I'm trying to poop. I guess it just helps my concentration.

 

[aswedc]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Why all the attacks on me? Why is it so hard to comprehend that you have to understand how to appreciate something?

You fail to realize that is possible to understand classical music, but not like it.

 

[johnjohn320]

See, this is the problem. Most of us (classical musicians) have no condascending view towards people who aren't into classical. But I start a thread, one person makes a condascending comment, and everyone jumps on him....i think they have the impression that his mentality is all of our mentalities. It's frustrating.

edit- I might as well give my 2 cents on the "debate" being waged here. I tend to agree with the aforementioned Corigliano quote (scroll up for it). I think the classical music community got a reputation for having a stick up its ass, and rock presented an alternative that said "hey, we dont care why you listen, or what you think, or IF you think, just come listen!" and people left to go listen. I don't think people are incapable of understanding classical music...I think like any great art, it has many, many levels that can be explored (I am getting a whole friggin' degree in it, after all, and it's pretty tough). But that doesn't mean you need to have 3 semesters of Counterpoint in order to like the way Bach sounds.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
thats not what you said. you clearly said above that people don't like it becausee they don't understand or "get" it. here, let me quote you yet again ...

It's a fact. The reason people don't like classical, is because they don't understand it. Look at the music scores for a symphony composed during the romantic era. Compare that with anything from today's top40.

you say it's a fact thats why people dont like it. that is showing your elitist attitude. are there certain video games you don't like? do you really think it's because you don't "get" it or understand how to play it? no, it's because it's just not something you enjoy.

same exact thing with classical music. maybe if it was something i enjoyed listening to I would actually try to "understand" it as you say. but i don't enjoy it so i won't.

Are you denying the fact that classical music is harder to listen to? It is harder to listen to...ANY music teacher will tell you that. It's not really an opinion. Anything that is harder to do, is not going to have many people doing it. Stop with this elitist bogus stuff. I'm not questioning "why" people listen to it. Everyone should listen to music that they like. If it's not within their personality traits to listen to more difficult music, then don't.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
See, this is the problem. Most of us (classical musicians) have no condascending view towards people who aren't into classical. But I start a thread, one person makes a condascending comment, and everyone jumps on him....i think they have the impression that his mentality is all of our mentalities. It's frustrating.

I think they have the impression that I am trying to be an elitist, whereas I'm simply stating some scientific reasons why people don't listen to classical. As soon as I say "don't understand", people get defensive, thinking i'm calling them stupid. This is not the case. They are the ones assuming that of themselves, arguing against an impression they made of themselves.

 

[BoomerD]

I'm an old 60's rock & roller, and I have to admit...I don't understand "classical"...doesn't stop me from enjoying it however. In fact, it is the predominant music genre in my collections, has the most spaces in my radio pre-sets, and makes us probably 70% of my listening. Still listen to some rock, plenty of hawaiian music, and lots of country, (whoda thunk it 35-40 yrs ago?) but classical (even though I don't "understand" it) is my favorite. Talk about intensity! Nothing like Wagner to get your blood pumping. Emotion? This stuff is FULL of it...I avoid the stuff that has singing...the "my voice is my instrument" stuff often gags me...while some people DO have nice voices, I prefer NOT to hear them when listening to classical.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Interesting thoughts. I love how a little battle's already waging, and I didn't even start it.

To those who say "it's boring": this is a fair answer, but please tell me more. WHY do you find it boring? What's exciting about rock (or whatever you listen to) that classical music lacks?

There isn't nearly as much intensity in classical as there is in rock, and the music isn't as twitch-engaging. Furthermore, classical songs are generally longer, which means the intensity is usually more drawn out. There are also no vocals. In short, classical music is good for a long session, while rock music is better on-the-go.

No vocals? There are absolutely vocals. Where did you get that crazy idea? Ever heard of a cantata, aria, choral music, oratorio, etc. etc.? What about an opera?

[edit]Spelling[/edit]

You forgot to correct him on intensity... some classical can be incredibly intense.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Why is it so hard to comprehend that you have to understand how to appreciate something? Understanding how to play and understanding how to appreciate are two different things. I'm simply saying that understanding to appreciate classical music takes a little more focus on listening, a sharper ear, and overall a well-tuned brain.

You must be fairly young. When I was a child, virtually ALL of the cartoons that kids watched on 2,4, and 7 were accompanied by classical music: Bugs Bunny, Woody Woodpecker, etc. There was even a freakin opera sung by Bugs and Elmer Fudd, not to mention several of the operas with the wording and actions only slightly changed to fit the cartoons. [sarcasm] It's a shame that all the 8 year olds in that era didn't have the proper training to appreciate the music. [/sarcasm] Heck, accompanied isn't quite the correct word... the cartoons were choreographed to the classical music.

Ohhhhh, this is driving me nuts...
What's the name of the song that Woody Woodpecker plays on the piano when the robbers force him to "keep playin'" and they steal the piano and piano seat as well... I remember them crashing, and the chase continuing on a train, with woody still playing... but I can't remember the name of the song. Was it a song by Chopin?

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Why is it so hard to comprehend that you have to understand how to appreciate something? Understanding how to play and understanding how to appreciate are two different things. I'm simply saying that understanding to appreciate classical music takes a little more focus on listening, a sharper ear, and overall a well-tuned brain.

You must be fairly young. When I was a child, virtually ALL of the cartoons that kids watched on 2,4, and 7 were accompanied by classical music: Bugs Bunny, Woody Woodpecker, etc. There was even a freakin opera sung by Bugs and Elmer Fudd, not to mention several of the operas with the wording and actions only slightly changed to fit the cartoons. [sarcasm] It's a shame that all the 8 year olds in that era didn't have the proper training to appreciate the music. [/sarcasm] Heck, accompanied isn't quite the correct word... the cartoons were choreographed to the classical music.

Ohhhhh, this is driving me nuts...
What's the name of the song that Woody Woodpecker plays on the piano when the robbers force him to "keep playin'" and they steal the piano and piano seat as well... I remember them crashing, and the chase continuing on a train, with woody still playing... but I can't remember the name of the song. Was it a song by Chopin?

To answer your question: Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2 is very common in cartoons...but I'm not sure.

But it's funny you mention that. Did you know those Cartoons were aimed at adults? I don't recall any children ever laughing at the old WB cartoons. The jokes were for adults, and the music is quite complex (Carl Stallings is a genius, and a master at arranging music). In fact, the music was the backbone for all the cartoons (before the budget cuts and eventual downfall of them).

Also, I never said anyone had to have proper "training". Give me a break. :roll:

 

[veggz]

This is a great thread. In response to many of the posts, I do agree that classically trained individuals have a greater appreciation for classical music as a result of their training. Once you have experienced a piece for yourself and applied your own emotions an interpretations, it is fascinating to hear other interpretations by renown artists. One of the most appealing aspects of classical music to me is the way that a single composition can be interpreted in so many ways as to become a completely different piece. I find that the vast majority of modern rock lacks substance both in musicality and lyrics, and find it sad that the industry has become one large marketing campaign. However I do enjoy several bands, though I will never respect any of them nearly as much as I do classical composers. Believe me, I have had extensive exposure to both modern and classical music (10+ rock concerts a month, 5+ classical conerts since they're generally more expensive), and I have found that modern music serves well as pure entertainment while classical music is truely art.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Interesting thoughts. I love how a little battle's already waging, and I didn't even start it.

To those who say "it's boring": this is a fair answer, but please tell me more. WHY do you find it boring? What's exciting about rock (or whatever you listen to) that classical music lacks?

There isn't nearly as much intensity in classical as there is in rock, and the music isn't as twitch-engaging. Furthermore, classical songs are generally longer, which means the intensity is usually more drawn out. There are also no vocals. In short, classical music is good for a long session, while rock music is better on-the-go.

No vocals? There are absolutely vocals. Where did you get that crazy idea? Ever heard of a cantata, aria, choral music, oratorio, etc. etc.? What about an opera?

[edit]Spelling[/edit]

You forgot to correct him on intensity... some classical can be incredibly intense.

I know SOME classical can be incredibly intense, but the classical that I've encountered doesn't really do it for me. Once again, since most classical songs are long, there are longer periods of non-intensity - that's just the way the music is written (in most cases).

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: Aflac
I know SOME classical can be incredibly intense, but the classical that I've encountered doesn't really do it for me. Once again, since most classical songs are long, there are longer periods of non-intensity - that's just the way the music is written (in most cases).

Well classical music isn't just one type of music. It's many. There are also different periods. Just like some rock songs are slow, so are many classical movements and pieces.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Can't help you, I have about 70GB's of classical on my server.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Interesting thoughts. I love how a little battle's already waging, and I didn't even start it.

To those who say "it's boring": this is a fair answer, but please tell me more. WHY do you find it boring? What's exciting about rock (or whatever you listen to) that classical music lacks?

There isn't nearly as much intensity in classical as there is in rock, and the music isn't as twitch-engaging. Furthermore, classical songs are generally longer, which means the intensity is usually more drawn out. There are also no vocals. In short, classical music is good for a long session, while rock music is better on-the-go.

No vocals? There are absolutely vocals. Where did you get that crazy idea? Ever heard of a cantata, aria, choral music, oratorio, etc. etc.? What about an opera?

[edit]Spelling[/edit]

You forgot to correct him on intensity... some classical can be incredibly intense.

I know SOME classical can be incredibly intense, but the classical that I've encountered doesn't really do it for me. Once again, since most classical songs are long, there are longer periods of non-intensity - that's just the way the music is written (in most cases).

What do you expect, club-hopping intensity throughout an entire piece? It's not dance music. Even rock songs have periods of relative quiescence before returning to the more intense parts.

Also, most works include fast and slow movements. For example, the standard piano concerto includes a fast movement (often in a sonata form), a slow movement, and usually another fast movement. Sonatas often follow very similar form and often have "intense" movements.

I could give you hundreds of examples of this, but it sounds like you just need to explore a little more if you're actually interested. I guess it all depends on what you mean by intensity though. If you think intensity is about being loud, fast, etc. then I doubt anything before the 19th century will satisfy.

 

[SaltBoy]

I listen to it regularly.

Heck, I'm in the Houston Symphony Chorus - I *make* it, too.

 

[FeuerFrei]

I like rock music that incorporates an orchestra.

As far as classical music goes, I find it depressing mostly and random in structure. There's no tune to hum or stick in your mind and you immediately forget it once you hear it. I'm just speaking from experience with classical radio stations. There are some songs I like, but I can't remember what they're called.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
I like rock music that incorporates an orchestra.

As far as classical music goes, I find it depressing mostly and random in structure. There's no tune to hum or stick in your mind and you immediately forget it once you hear it. I'm just speaking from experience with classical radio stations. There are some songs I like, but I can't remember what they're called.

I can whistle all of Brahms' Symphonies.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
I like rock music that incorporates an orchestra.

As far as classical music goes, I find it depressing mostly and random in structure.

This is where better understanding comes into play. It's most certainly not random. There are patterns to every genre, movement, passage and bar. At the foundation of all of this is music theory.

An example would be what I said above: Sonata Form. There are generally five or so facets to the structure: Introduction, Exposition, Development, Recapitulation and Coda. For example, in a piano concerto the first movement is usually in sonata form. In Mozart's time they usually incorporated a cadenza, an area that allowed the soloist to express their character and ability, and in his time this was largely improvisational; in fact, many artists today still improvise the cadenza. I've seen a few dozen performances over the years where this was so.

It was Beethoven and his contemporaries that started to formalize the cadenza and write it into the music, and other composers removed the cadenza entirely and simply embellished the coda (e.g. Hummel).

Yes, there is incredible form/structure to classical music. You have to know what you're hearing. I can listen to almost any piece and tell you the period, who composed it, at what point you are in the movement, etc.

johnjohn would obviously have a far more advanced background in this area.

There's no tune to hum or stick in your mind and you immediately forget it once you hear it.

Maybe you. I can recall a few hundred pieces in my head instantly.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

To me personally, I find classical music to be too busy and it lacks a good beat. The notes are usually either long and slow or very fast and sharp. They don't have a nice "thump" that you'd get from an instrument like a bass guitar or a drum.

I guess that's why I perfer muscle car engines to sports car engines.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Why is it so hard to comprehend that you have to understand how to appreciate something? Understanding how to play and understanding how to appreciate are two different things. I'm simply saying that understanding to appreciate classical music takes a little more focus on listening, a sharper ear, and overall a well-tuned brain.

You must be fairly young. When I was a child, virtually ALL of the cartoons that kids watched on 2,4, and 7 were accompanied by classical music: Bugs Bunny, Woody Woodpecker, etc. There was even a freakin opera sung by Bugs and Elmer Fudd, not to mention several of the operas with the wording and actions only slightly changed to fit the cartoons. [sarcasm] It's a shame that all the 8 year olds in that era didn't have the proper training to appreciate the music. [/sarcasm] Heck, accompanied isn't quite the correct word... the cartoons were choreographed to the classical music.

Ohhhhh, this is driving me nuts...
What's the name of the song that Woody Woodpecker plays on the piano when the robbers force him to "keep playin'" and they steal the piano and piano seat as well... I remember them crashing, and the chase continuing on a train, with woody still playing... but I can't remember the name of the song. Was it a song by Chopin?

To answer your question: Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2 is very common in cartoons...but I'm not sure.

But it's funny you mention that. Did you know those Cartoons were aimed at adults? I don't recall any children ever laughing at the old WB cartoons. The jokes were for adults, and the music is quite complex (Carl Stallings is a genius, and a master at arranging music). In fact, the music was the backbone for all the cartoons (before the budget cuts and eventual downfall of them).

Also, I never said anyone had to have proper "training". Give me a break. :roll:

Yeah, the first thing I thought of was Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2. Tom (of Tom and Jerry) played that song and abused Jerry with the keys and hammers... Bugs Bunny played it... Freleng did an entire cartoon about building a skyscraper choreographed to it. But, I'm pretty sure it was something else for Woody Woodpecker.

 

[MustangSVT]

i listen.

im into bach these days ;D

 

[letdown427]

I'm undecided on what the reasons are.

To an extent, I feel that the whole point of art is to entertain, to be enjoyed by people. As such, why should said art demand an admission fee (certain level of understanding if you will) just to be enjoyed?

However, one could argue that within that admission fee lies the part that some people enjoy, learning to understand and appreciate the music is part of the entertainment.


Classical sales being so low isn't something that is going to change much in the immediate future in my opinion, as has been said, a classical CD will last, frankly, until the CD doesn't play properly anymore. It's not like Vivaldi is pumping out classics anymore, Paganini isn't tearing up the neck anymore, why would a typical classical music listener need to keep buying CDs? Especially as the dabble with atonal music and general experimentalism of (comparitively) recent times probably not falling on kind ears with the casual or more snobbish classical community, it's no surprise to me that classical CD sales are low.

Just my .02 johnjohn

 

[DrPizza]

Searching and searching online... I wish I had a collection of all these old cartoons. I'd just lock myself in the house for a weekend and watch them. In the middle of Bugs Bunny playing Hungarian Rhapsody... phone rings, interupts concert "Franz Liszt? Never heard of him."